Hell must have frozen over...

[Strk]

Originally posted by: LOUISSSSS

Originally posted by: Pocatello

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: Pocatello
I have no experience with the turbo version, just the regular Cobalt, it's a lot nicer than the Cavalier, but cruder than the Civic or the Corolla. GM is improving, but Honda and Toyota aren't standing still, they redesigned their models much faster than GM, Ford, or Chrysler. Take the Ford Focus in North America, it's essentially the same model from 2000, with a few minor updates. The Chevy Cobalt is also long on the tooth.

2010 Cobalt replacement. Chevy Cruze.

It's still more than a year away from now for the North American market. My worry is that GM is still too slow to respond to market demand. I really like what GM did with Saturn, Saturn has had a lot of fresh products, nice products, but the consumers have given up on Saturn. Consumers have so many choices from so many car companies. Hopefully, it's not too late for GM.

1. didn't the cobalt just come out in 2005? and its being replaced ALREADY?? 4 years for the life of a vehicle?
2. i'm not sure what is so special about the 2011 cruze. its about 2 years away and doesn't offer anything too exciting over its competition. in fact, the supposed 2011 engines produce even less hp. 1.4-liter turbocharged 4-cylinder engine (140hp) & optional engine which is a normally aspirated 1.8-liter (138hp) big EH.
3. pricing from $15k (base model) to $21k which puts it in the league of the civic & mazda 3 & nissan versa & toyota matrix & mini cooper (which can be had around 19-20k) How will this car with nothing special/new platform w/ unknown reliability&performance compete is such a tough segment?

The Cobalt started sales in 2004 with a 2005 model. The Cruze is a 2011 model, so the Cobalt still has another year. A five year cycle is fairly normal. For comparison, the Civic was completely redesigned in 2006 (well, 2006 model). The one before that was completely redesigned.... Oh, I'll let you guess the year on that one just because it's funny. Does keeping the same name make up for the car being completely new or is the Civic really a 36 year old car to you? The same with Toyota.

The second part sounds like you just did a quick look on Wikipedia. We get the 1.4l turbo engine. The 1.6l is for South Korea.

And it's a compact sedan. The price range for compact sedans is $15-22k. Why should a new compact sedan be any different?

 

[Arkaign]

Against my better judgment, I agree that $15k-$22k is too much to ask the US car buying public for a entry-level GM product with tiny motors.

 

[darom]

I saw an ad in the local paper: Smart Car, used for $21k - ouch!

We just need more European vehicles here in the States with 2.x litre turbocharged (gas, diesel) engines. Great mpgs with plenty of power.

 

[LOUISSSSS]

well honda&toyota have kept the same name because their car names are doing well and selling well with no problems. theres no reason to change a good thing. which is why the accord/camry/civic/corolla have been around forever. (same with corvette.)

looks like the current cobalt isn't doing well at all, which is why its name needs to be chopped and replaced in 5 years.

this new cruze doesn't have anything special about it at all... just a big ole eh compact sedan?

what i think is that GM should bump their warranty to be on par with hyundai's warranty. that will give customers more confidence in buying their cars. or will gm not be able to afford to fix that many broken cars?

 

[Ktulu]

Originally posted by: LOUISSSSS
well honda&toyota have kept the same name because their car names are doing well and selling well with no problems. theres no reason to change a good thing. which is why the accord/camry/civic/corolla have been around forever. (same with corvette.)

looks like the current cobalt isn't doing well at all, which is why its name needs to be chopped and replaced in 5 years.

this new cruze doesn't have anything special about it at all... just a big ole eh compact sedan?

what i think is that GM should bump their warranty to be on par with hyundai's warranty. that will give customers more confidence in buying their cars. or will gm not be able to afford to fix that many broken cars?

The Cruze might not be that significant in the world of compacts, but it truly looks as though GM actually put some thought and effort into. And only special thing that I know of about this car is that it's estimated to acheive 40mpg with the new smaller engines.

 

[Fenixgoon]

Originally posted by: Arkaign
Against my better judgment, I agree that $15k-$22k is too much to ask the US car buying public for a entry-level GM product with tiny motors.

why? the Civic Si goes for that much, and the MS3 goes for slightly more. those are the performance versions though, so i can see the price tag hitting 20k and higher easily. for base models, 15k seems reasonable though.

Originally posted by: darom
I saw an ad in the local paper: Smart Car, used for $21k - ouch!

We just need more European vehicles here in the States with 2.x litre turbocharged (gas, diesel) engines. Great mpgs with plenty of power.

that's just plain theft. smart cars don't even get decent mileage for their size because of the engines available in the US. i'd never ever buy one.

 

[BUTCH1]

Originally posted by: LOUISSSSS
well honda&toyota have kept the same name because their car names are doing well and selling well with no problems. theres no reason to change a good thing. which is why the accord/camry/civic/corolla have been around forever. (same with corvette.)

looks like the current cobalt isn't doing well at all, which is why its name needs to be chopped and replaced in 5 years.

this new cruze doesn't have anything special about it at all... just a big ole eh compact sedan?

what i think is that GM should bump their warranty to be on par with hyundai's warranty. that will give customers more confidence in buying their cars. or will gm not be able to afford to fix that many broken cars?

Just a big loe eh compact sedan?, my mom's got one of those, it's called a 2007 Corolla. Poor fit and finish, handles like crap and has a buzzy motor. The interior has el-cheapo plastic as well, I hope it lasts her a long time as that would be the only thing going for it..

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

Originally posted by: Arkaign
Against my better judgment, I agree that $15k-$22k is too much to ask the US car buying public for a entry-level GM product with tiny motors.

why? the Civic Si goes for that much, and the MS3 goes for slightly more. those are the performance versions though, so i can see the price tag hitting 20k and higher easily. for base models, 15k seems reasonable though.

Originally posted by: darom
I saw an ad in the local paper: Smart Car, used for $21k - ouch!

We just need more European vehicles here in the States with 2.x litre turbocharged (gas, diesel) engines. Great mpgs with plenty of power.

that's just plain theft. smart cars don't even get decent mileage for their size because of the engines available in the US. i'd never ever buy one.

Well, the Civic Si has a long-earned reputation for being a good all-around vehicle, as well as some questionably deserved hyping from the modder-kid community. And it's a ~200hp 6-speed toy.

15k for a low-output low-performance compact from GM just doesn't sound all that attractive. I guess we'll have to wait and see, but for 1.4L, 1.6L or whatever they're talking about, I'd rather see a $11k or so entry point for a stripped vehicle.

 

[Ktulu]

Originally posted by: Arkaign

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

Originally posted by: Arkaign
Against my better judgment, I agree that $15k-$22k is too much to ask the US car buying public for a entry-level GM product with tiny motors.

why? the Civic Si goes for that much, and the MS3 goes for slightly more. those are the performance versions though, so i can see the price tag hitting 20k and higher easily. for base models, 15k seems reasonable though.

Originally posted by: darom
I saw an ad in the local paper: Smart Car, used for $21k - ouch!

We just need more European vehicles here in the States with 2.x litre turbocharged (gas, diesel) engines. Great mpgs with plenty of power.

that's just plain theft. smart cars don't even get decent mileage for their size because of the engines available in the US. i'd never ever buy one.

Well, the Civic Si has a long-earned reputation for being a good all-around vehicle, as well as some questionably deserved hyping from the modder-kid community. And it's a ~200hp 6-speed toy.

15k for a low-output low-performance compact from GM just doesn't sound all that attractive. I guess we'll have to wait and see, but for 1.4L, 1.6L or whatever they're talking about, I'd rather see a $11k or so entry point for a stripped vehicle.

Why are we comparing the Cruze to a Civic Si. At least be fair and compare it to a normal Civic. The Cruze isn't being designed for track performance, but for day-to-day communiting performance.

 

[LOUISSSSS]

Originally posted by: BUTCH1

Originally posted by: LOUISSSSS
well honda&toyota have kept the same name because their car names are doing well and selling well with no problems. theres no reason to change a good thing. which is why the accord/camry/civic/corolla have been around forever. (same with corvette.)

looks like the current cobalt isn't doing well at all, which is why its name needs to be chopped and replaced in 5 years.

this new cruze doesn't have anything special about it at all... just a big ole eh compact sedan?

what i think is that GM should bump their warranty to be on par with hyundai's warranty. that will give customers more confidence in buying their cars. or will gm not be able to afford to fix that many broken cars?

Just a big loe eh compact sedan?, my mom's got one of those, it's called a 2007 Corolla. Poor fit and finish, handles like crap and has a buzzy motor. The interior has el-cheapo plastic as well, I hope it lasts her a long time as that would be the only thing going for it..

well all cars under 20k are made of plasticy interiors. As long as your mom does the scheduled maint for it, that motor and tranny shouldn't have any trouble lasting her upwards of 200k miles.

wondering why GM had to change names of their cars so often, cavalier, cobalt, cruze. car companies only do that when the car isn't selling well and needs to be renamed/replaced.

 

[BUTCH1]

It's selling well, GM sells a ton of 'em to Avis!!

 

[zerocool84]

Originally posted by: LOUISSSSS

Originally posted by: BUTCH1

Originally posted by: LOUISSSSS
well honda&toyota have kept the same name because their car names are doing well and selling well with no problems. theres no reason to change a good thing. which is why the accord/camry/civic/corolla have been around forever. (same with corvette.)

looks like the current cobalt isn't doing well at all, which is why its name needs to be chopped and replaced in 5 years.

this new cruze doesn't have anything special about it at all... just a big ole eh compact sedan?

what i think is that GM should bump their warranty to be on par with hyundai's warranty. that will give customers more confidence in buying their cars. or will gm not be able to afford to fix that many broken cars?

Just a big loe eh compact sedan?, my mom's got one of those, it's called a 2007 Corolla. Poor fit and finish, handles like crap and has a buzzy motor. The interior has el-cheapo plastic as well, I hope it lasts her a long time as that would be the only thing going for it..

well all cars under 20k are made of plasticy interiors. As long as your mom does the scheduled maint for it, that motor and tranny shouldn't have any trouble lasting her upwards of 200k miles.

wondering why GM had to change names of their cars so often, cavalier, cobalt, cruze. car companies only do that when the car isn't selling well and needs to be renamed/replaced.

Answering your own question FTL

 

[mwmorph]

The Cobalt SS is hands down the best FWD drivers car on the market. Nothing handles nor drives nearly as sweetly as it for anywhere near the MSRP. The interior sucks, sure, the exterior is boring (better to not attract undue police attention, you'll begin to like not being pulled over ll the time sooner or later), but damn, if its not the nicest driving compact, FWD pocket rocket I've ever driven (compared to Civic Si, Gti, MS3, Cooper S).

I wouldn't mind parking one in my garage with that little side pod performance computer (Just $200!).

You can pick 2, flashy, affordable or fun. I'll take the latter 2 any day of the week.

 

[Strk]

Originally posted by: LOUISSSSS

Originally posted by: BUTCH1

Originally posted by: LOUISSSSS
well honda&toyota have kept the same name because their car names are doing well and selling well with no problems. theres no reason to change a good thing. which is why the accord/camry/civic/corolla have been around forever. (same with corvette.)

looks like the current cobalt isn't doing well at all, which is why its name needs to be chopped and replaced in 5 years.

this new cruze doesn't have anything special about it at all... just a big ole eh compact sedan?

what i think is that GM should bump their warranty to be on par with hyundai's warranty. that will give customers more confidence in buying their cars. or will gm not be able to afford to fix that many broken cars?

Just a big loe eh compact sedan?, my mom's got one of those, it's called a 2007 Corolla. Poor fit and finish, handles like crap and has a buzzy motor. The interior has el-cheapo plastic as well, I hope it lasts her a long time as that would be the only thing going for it..

well all cars under 20k are made of plasticy interiors. As long as your mom does the scheduled maint for it, that motor and tranny shouldn't have any trouble lasting her upwards of 200k miles.

wondering why GM had to change names of their cars so often, cavalier, cobalt, cruze. car companies only do that when the car isn't selling well and needs to be renamed/replaced.

All cars under $20k aren't made of plasticy interiors. The Civic, Mazda 3, new Focus and Jetta all have nice interiors.

Also, I wouldn't call three names in thirty years "often." Sadly, it wasn't the greatest so it was discounted and frequently sold as a fleet vehicle (one of the fastest ways to tank resale)

Here's the part you don't seem to get in all of your trolling. No one denies GM and Ford have made shitty cars. No one denies that, for the most part, GM's and Ford's quality improvements, the ones that put them near to or on par with the best, have been very recent. No one denies Honda is a good company that makes good cars. You have an issue that most here believe Toyota is overrated. Personally, I think they've sacrificed quality and that their cars offer no feedback whatsoever to the driver.

 

[desy]

Yep Toyota NEVER drops names
Corona Cressida Echo Tercel MR2 Celica Supra Paseo Previa T100

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: Arkaign

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

Originally posted by: Arkaign
Against my better judgment, I agree that $15k-$22k is too much to ask the US car buying public for a entry-level GM product with tiny motors.

why? the Civic Si goes for that much, and the MS3 goes for slightly more. those are the performance versions though, so i can see the price tag hitting 20k and higher easily. for base models, 15k seems reasonable though.

Originally posted by: darom
I saw an ad in the local paper: Smart Car, used for $21k - ouch!

We just need more European vehicles here in the States with 2.x litre turbocharged (gas, diesel) engines. Great mpgs with plenty of power.

that's just plain theft. smart cars don't even get decent mileage for their size because of the engines available in the US. i'd never ever buy one.

Well, the Civic Si has a long-earned reputation for being a good all-around vehicle, as well as some questionably deserved hyping from the modder-kid community. And it's a ~200hp 6-speed toy.

15k for a low-output low-performance compact from GM just doesn't sound all that attractive. I guess we'll have to wait and see, but for 1.4L, 1.6L or whatever they're talking about, I'd rather see a $11k or so entry point for a stripped vehicle.

Why are we comparing the Cruze to a Civic Si. At least be fair and compare it to a normal Civic. The Cruze isn't being designed for track performance, but for day-to-day communiting performance.

I agree, but I didn't bring up the Civic Si. Come on, for $15k, do you really want to see a 1.4L or 1.6L slug, when you could get a regular 140hp Civic or Focus? This should be marketed against the $10k-$12k subcompacts.

 

[mwmorph]

Originally posted by: desy
Yep Toyota NEVER drops names
Corona Cressida Echo Tercel MR2 Celica Supra Paseo Previa T100

I still have hope the Previa will come back someday. a 8/10 scale, mid engine RWD
Van? Sign me up.

 

[Strk]

Originally posted by: Arkaign

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: Arkaign

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

Originally posted by: Arkaign
Against my better judgment, I agree that $15k-$22k is too much to ask the US car buying public for a entry-level GM product with tiny motors.

why? the Civic Si goes for that much, and the MS3 goes for slightly more. those are the performance versions though, so i can see the price tag hitting 20k and higher easily. for base models, 15k seems reasonable though.

Originally posted by: darom
I saw an ad in the local paper: Smart Car, used for $21k - ouch!

We just need more European vehicles here in the States with 2.x litre turbocharged (gas, diesel) engines. Great mpgs with plenty of power.

that's just plain theft. smart cars don't even get decent mileage for their size because of the engines available in the US. i'd never ever buy one.

Well, the Civic Si has a long-earned reputation for being a good all-around vehicle, as well as some questionably deserved hyping from the modder-kid community. And it's a ~200hp 6-speed toy.

15k for a low-output low-performance compact from GM just doesn't sound all that attractive. I guess we'll have to wait and see, but for 1.4L, 1.6L or whatever they're talking about, I'd rather see a $11k or so entry point for a stripped vehicle.

Why are we comparing the Cruze to a Civic Si. At least be fair and compare it to a normal Civic. The Cruze isn't being designed for track performance, but for day-to-day communiting performance.

I agree, but I didn't bring up the Civic Si. Come on, for $15k, do you really want to see a 1.4L or 1.6L slug, when you could get a regular 140hp Civic or Focus? This should be marketed against the $10k-$12k subcompacts.

K, it seems people just don't want to read.

It's a 1.4l turbo charged engine. The 1.6l is for South Korea. It will produce 140hp/148ft-lbs torque. A Civic does 140hp/128ft-lbs torque and a Focus does 140hp/136ft-lbs torque. The Corolla does less than all of them. The Cruze should also get better mpg than all of them. What the car comes with standard is still unknown, as far as I know.

And it's a compact, why should it be marketed against a subcompact?

 

[Arkaign]

1.4L turbo, means that it will produce little power unless revved, the peak HP/TQ will be way up there in the rev range. Too much weight.

 

[Strk]

Originally posted by: Arkaign
1.4L turbo, means that it will produce little power unless revved, the peak HP/TQ will be way up there in the rev range. Too much weight.

They're a bunch of small displacement four bangers. You have to do that with all of them and they're still slow.

 

[Arkaign]

http://consumerguideauto.howst...1-chevrolet-cruze1.htm

~2,750lbs, guess it's not too horrible. But still seems pricey for a compact. I sincerely doubt too many people will choose the Cruze for Mazda3 money. Chevy needs a credible mass-market $10-$12k vehicle.

 

[Fenixgoon]

Originally posted by: Arkaign
http://consumerguideauto.howst...1-chevrolet-cruze1.htm

~2,750lbs, guess it's not too horrible. But still seems pricey for a compact. I sincerely doubt too many people will choose the Cruze for Mazda3 money. Chevy needs a credible mass-market $10-$12k vehicle.

you can barely pull off a car for that much. only the uber-micro econoboxes like the nissan versa can get that low (starts at $10k). the honda fit starts at almost $15k, and the yaris is $12k. and the cobalt/cruze are much larger than any of them, i think.

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

Originally posted by: Arkaign
http://consumerguideauto.howst...1-chevrolet-cruze1.htm

~2,750lbs, guess it's not too horrible. But still seems pricey for a compact. I sincerely doubt too many people will choose the Cruze for Mazda3 money. Chevy needs a credible mass-market $10-$12k vehicle.

you can barely pull off a car for that much. only the uber-micro econoboxes like the nissan versa can get that low (starts at $10k). the honda fit starts at almost $15k, and the yaris is $12k. and the cobalt/cruze are much larger than any of them, i think.

Aveo is around that price range I think, but it's crap.

 

[BUTCH1]

Originally posted by: Arkaign

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

Originally posted by: Arkaign
http://consumerguideauto.howst...1-chevrolet-cruze1.htm

~2,750lbs, guess it's not too horrible. But still seems pricey for a compact. I sincerely doubt too many people will choose the Cruze for Mazda3 money. Chevy needs a credible mass-market $10-$12k vehicle.

you can barely pull off a car for that much. only the uber-micro econoboxes like the nissan versa can get that low (starts at $10k). the honda fit starts at almost $15k, and the yaris is $12k. and the cobalt/cruze are much larger than any of them, i think.

Aveo is around that price range I think, but it's crap.

Yea, I had the Aveo as a rental for a few days, it was slow as expected but also handled like shit AND got mediocre millage for such a tiny car..

 

[LOUISSSSS]

a 1.4l turbo producing a mere 148hp won't be fun to drive. the power produced at lower rpms (normal driving on local streets and on highway) will be very poor. and when you do rev up that engine to engage the turbo, power maximizes at a mere 148hp but that, in turn, kills all gas efficiency, resulting in LESS THAN the states 40+mpg.