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Hell Freezes over. Glenn Beck admits: Liberals got Iraq right

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Vic said:
It was about military and defense jobs, which is the same thing it's about now too.
The "small government" crowd needs their government jobs, so off to war we go.. again.
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It was never really about any of that either.

It was about "better, smarter, wiser men" who believed they knew how to change the world into the image that they thought was better, smarter and wiser. Oil, jobs and all that would take care of itself once America had rightfully established itself as the planetary Alpha. Not only would America show that its might was unsurpassed but also that it possessed a social and moral supremacy that could elevate and transform a hostile and alien country like Iraq.

Honestly, it's pretty much the plot line to a lot of mediocre science fiction, right down to the 'downfall by hubris' outcome.

Imagine if Iraq had turned out as planned. Our military swept aside the Iraqis in weeks, toppled the government and made us the kingmakers of an entire country. If, as benevolent rulers, we had transformed Iraq into a liberal Western bastion of democracy in the Middle East it would have shown how clearly the superiority of American ideals over the backwardness of the surrounding countries. The dictators and kings of the Middle East would have to justify how Iraq could exist as a modern progressive nation while they maintained their grip on power. Iraq was the seed of modernity that America could plant in the Middle East.

Now the arrogance required to say that with a straight face is staggering, but that is what the architects of the Iraq War really believed. It is little different than the big thoughts that "better, smarter, wiser men" on both sides of the wall thought during the Cold War. Why 2003 America would accomplish in Iraq what 1979 Russians could not accomplish in Afghanistan, 1964 America could not accomplish in Vietnam or 1940s UK could not accomplish in India is beyond me. But the idea of cultural terraforming isn't exactly a new idea. But it has pretty much always been a bad one.
 
MrPickins said:
I can't believe I'm agreeing with Glenn Beck.

Exemplified in the very first response:



Seriously, do you people never get tired of being toeing the partisan line?
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Scarey isn't it.

But maybe he's watching Game of Thrones, and is in Littlefinger mode.

😀
 
glenn1 said:
Iraq for the left is kinda like what Obamacare is for the right - something that they fought almost to the death on political grounds without having any truly better alternative in mind or even caring about the aftermath if they got their way. As if things would have been all sunshine and puppies if we had left Saddam in power and ignoring what the alternative 10+ years would have been like. After all, we had just enjoyed the prior 10 years with him remaining in power and the slow drip of uncertainty about WMD, continued ethnic violence against the Kurds and Shiites, and other delights.
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not really. The alternative for Iraq was obvious before, during, and after, and there were plenty of people preaching it: DON'T FUCKING GO INTO IRAQ.

that was pretty simple. And again, if some the righties here laugh at the idea of democrats being right of center--which they obviously are--then look at Congressional voting on Iraq, which you all love to preach over and over and over again. But that's only one example.
 
This dysfunctional left right BS needs to go. There is so much strata between those two not to mention many fall on both sides. I hate it. One reason I slow posting here. Everything becomes team blue or red and no one thinks independently or consider others viewpoints seriously. It's also divisive and could be dangerous. Anyway - FYI Glenn Beck was a "Liberal" at one time so I guess he can still introspect.
 
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zinfamous said:
I don't get that. Democrats are pretty damn conservative these days. If you've moved so far to the right that this isn't obvious to you, then I'm not sure what else to say.
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Oh ya, just keep saying the whole country is leaning left when it comes to gay marriage, legalized marijuana, healthcare, higher taxes of the rich, more entitlements, more regulations, etc, etc, but just because you didn't get everything you cooked up in your head as liberal bliss it's "the Dems are right of center"........ You can't have it both ways.

Case in point:

Newell Steamer said:
The country is going liberal. Pot is being legalized. More white women are banging black men. And now Glenn Beck is sucking liberal cock.

It's over guys.
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Dems are pretty right wing economically and at end of day thats most important. Taxes were like 93% under Eisenhower if you made over 400K. Now they are squeamish about raising them to even 40%. The free trade and open borders are straight out of right wing university of Chicago economics. Or the ACA forces you to buy from layers of profit making non HC providing private insurance. Who deregulated banking? Who did welfare reform?

The entitlements are just enough to prevent riots from lack of opportunity while they loot. I don't see them giving away 360 acres like we did in old days. School was free when my parents went to college in the 60s almost free when i went now kids are chained to debt for life of they wish to go.
 
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Zebo said:
Dems are pretty right wing economically and at end of day thats most important. Taxes were like 93% under Eisenhower if you made over 400K. Now they are squeamish about raising them to even 40%. The free trade and open borders are straight out of right wing university of Chicago economics. Or the ACA forces you to buy from layers of profit making non HC providing private insurance.

The entitlements are just enough to prevent riots from lack of opportunity while they loot.
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Pretty much, they've been riding the edge on how much to rape while things get outsourced a long time now.
 
Zebo said:
Dems are pretty right wing economically and at end of day thats most important. Taxes were like 93% under Eisenhower if you made over 400K. Now they are squeamish about raising them to even 40%. The free trade and open borders are straight out of right wing university of Chicago economics. Or the ACA forces you to buy from layers of profit making non HC providing private insurance. Who deregulated banking? Who did welfare reform?

The entitlements are just enough to prevent riots from lack of opportunity while they loot. I don't see them giving away 360 acres like we did in old days. School was free when my parents went to college in the 60s almost free when i went now kids are chained to debt for life of they wish to go.
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93% is an asinine rate no matter what side of the isle you are on. 39% federal, 10% state leaves you with half of what you make in a lot of states. Spend anything after that and you are taxed at 7% and god forbid you actually want to use it towards a roof over your head which is then taxed at 3% year after year. Some people are lucky if 40 cents of every dollar they make actually goes towards goods or services. These are conservative policies or rates? Hah. Good one.
 
Its progressive. So like you kept 250K even if you made 400K back then more than enough to buy a house in the hamptons and be "Rich" What it did though is actually pay for shit without running massive deficits and encouraged employers to pay decent wages since after millions and millions CEOs wouldn't get much and decided its better to have good happy workers. Now it's over the barrel workers they want and communities suck.
 
Matt1970 said:
93% is an asinine rate no matter what side of the isle you are on. 39% federal, 10% state leaves you with half of what you make in a lot of states. Spend anything after that and you are taxed at 7% and god forbid you actually want to use it towards a roof over your head which is then taxed at 3% year after year. Some people are lucky if 40 cents of every dollar they make actually goes towards goods or services. These are conservative policies or rates? Hah. Good one.
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Hint: No one paid 93% back in the day. That is the distortion pushed by that false point. Sure taxes were higher but no sane wealthy individual during that time and era paid the top marginal tax rate unless they were receiving horrible/no tax advice. Nevermind all the means and methods which were available back then to shelter money as compared to today.
 
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Zebo said:
Its progressive. So like you kept 250K even if you made 400K back then more than enough to buy a house in the hamptons and be "Rich" What it did though is actually pay for shit without running massive deficits and encouraged employers to pay decent wages since after millions and millions CEOs wouldn't get much and decided its better to have good happy workers. Now it's over the barrel workers they want and communities suck.
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LOL So you think government would control its spending and not spend on shit you disagree with if we just hand it more money??? Are you serious??
 
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