That's not really a valid argument. Even if not helping US troops is considered criminal activity for journalists (and I'd argue that there is no way in hell it should be), why not try him in court and be done with it? What is the advantage of basing his detention on the opinions and observations of soldiers instead of the decision of a court of law. I'm not arguing that truly bad people should be set free with our blessing or anything, I just don't understand how it's helpful to deny them a trial...if they are guilty of doing something wrong, actually trying them for it shouldn't be too difficult.
As for why I don't think journalists should be thrown in jail for not helping US forces do their jobs...well, I would think that should be pretty obvious. If we're really trying to bring democracy and freedom to Iraq, denying them the rights we put in our *1st* Amendment seems like a great way to show them how full of ****** we are, and that doesn't seem like a great idea to me. I realize that lot of people in the US hate the press with a passion, but a free press is a fundamental part of a free society...if that's what we want the Iraqis to have, that's what we should encourage.
:thumbsup:
Wrongful imprisonment and imprisonment without charging the suspect are perhaps two of the worst offenses against human dignity. Anyone who has been in such a situation feels something similar to what a raped woman must feel - a complete violation of their person and personal rights, especially right to liberty. If these people are dangerous, then there is no reason they can't be dealt with in the same way as we have been dealing with dangerous individuals for the past 230 years - through a jury trial.
It is true that this is what the GCs state. This is why I submit they need to be updated to reflect a more modern approach to warfare without borders. As of now, Bush is fully within his rights to hold people indefinitely because the 'conflict' has no clear-cut definition. This is unacceptable for reasons stated above, but we need a real global effort to update the Conventions to account for the changing face of warfare.
blackangst1
Lifer
- Feb 23, 2005
- 22,914
- 2,359
- 126
/sarcasm I hope...otherwise be careful...when "they" come to take YOU away for your beliefs no one will be around to fight for YOUR rights...
I feel safer already.
U.S. holds AP photographer in Iraq 5 months By ROBERT TANNER, AP National Writer, 34 minutes ago
The U.S. military in Iraq has imprisoned an Associated Press photographer for five months, accusing him of being a security threat but never filing charges or permitting a public hearing.
Military officials said Bilal Hussein, an Iraqi citizen, was being held for "imperative reasons of security" under United Nations resolutions. AP executives said the news cooperative's review of Hussein's work did not find anything to indicate inappropriate contact with insurgents, and any evidence against him should be brought to the Iraqi criminal justice system.
Hussein, 35, is a native of Fallujah who began work for the AP in September 2004. He photographed events in Fallujah and Ramadi until he was detained on April 12 of this year.
"We want the rule of law to prevail. He either needs to be charged or released. Indefinite detention is not acceptable," said Tom Curley, AP's president and chief executive officer. "We've come to the conclusion that this is unacceptable under Iraqi law, or Geneva Conventions, or any military procedure."
Hussein is one of an estimated 14,000 people detained by the U.S. military worldwide ? 13,000 of them in Iraq. They are held in limbo where few are ever charged with a specific crime or given a chance before any court or tribunal to argue for their freedom.
In Hussein's case, the military has not provided any concrete evidence to back up the vague allegations they have raised about him, Curley and other AP executives said.
The military said Hussein was captured with two insurgents, including Hamid Hamad Motib, an alleged leader of al-Qaida in Iraq. "He has close relationships with persons known to be responsible for kidnappings, smuggling, improvised explosive device (IED) attacks and other attacks on coalition forces," according to a May 7 e-mail from U.S. Army Maj. Gen. Jack Gardner, who oversees all coalition detainees in Iraq.
"The information available establishes that he has relationships with insurgents and is afforded access to insurgent activities outside the normal scope afforded to journalists conducting legitimate activities," Gardner wrote to AP International Editor John Daniszewski.
Hussein proclaims his innocence, according to his Iraqi lawyer, Badie Arief Izzat, and believes he has been unfairly targeted because his photos from Ramadi and Fallujah were deemed unwelcome by the coalition forces.
That Hussein was captured at the same time as insurgents doesn't make him one of them, said Kathleen Carroll, AP's executive editor.
"Journalists have always had relationships with people that others might find unsavory," she said. "We're not in this to choose sides, we're to report what's going on from all sides."
AP executives in New York and Baghdad have sought to persuade U.S. officials to provide additional information about allegations against Hussein and to have his case transferred to the Iraqi criminal justice system. The AP contacted military leaders in Iraq and the Pentagon, and later the U.S. ambassador to Iraq, Zalmay Khalilzad.
The AP has worked quietly until now, believing that would be the best approach. But with the U.S. military giving no indication it would change its stance, the news cooperative has decided to make public Hussein's imprisonment, hoping the spotlight will bring attention to his case and that of thousands of others now held in Iraq, Curley said.
One of Hussein's photos was part of a package of 20 photographs that won a Pulitzer Prize for breaking news photography last year. His contribution was an image of four insurgents in Fallujah firing a mortar and small arms during the U.S.-led offensive in the city in November 2004.
In what several AP editors described as a typical path for locally hired staff in the midst of a conflict, Hussein, a shopkeeper who sold cell phones and computers in Fallujah, was hired in the city as a general helper because of his local knowledge.
As the situation in Fallujah eroded in 2004, he expressed a desire to become a photographer. Hussein was given training and camera equipment and hired in September of that year as a freelancer, paid on a per-picture basis, according to Santiago Lyon, AP's director of photography. A month later, he was put on a monthly retainer.
During the U.S.-led offensive in Fallujah in November 2004, he stayed on after his family fled. "He had good access. He was able to photograph not only the results of the attacks on Fallujah, he was also able to photograph members of the insurgency on occasion," Lyon said. "That was very difficult to achieve at that time."
After fleeing later in the offensive, leaving his camera behind in the rush to escape, Hussein arrived in Baghdad, where the AP gave him a new camera. He then went to work in Ramadi which, like Fallujah, has been a center of insurgent violence.
In its own effort to determine whether Hussein had gotten too close the insurgency, the AP has reviewed his work record, interviewed senior photo editors who worked on his images and examined all 420 photographs in the news cooperative's archives that were taken by Hussein, Lyon said.
The military in Iraq has frequently detained journalists who arrive quickly at scenes of violence, accusing them of getting advance notice from insurgents, Lyon said. But "that's just good journalism. Getting to the event quickly is something that characterizes good journalism anywhere in the world. It does not indicate prior knowledge," he said.
Out of Hussein's body of work, only 37 photos show insurgents or people who could be insurgents, Lyon said. "The vast majority of the 420 images show the aftermath or the results of the conflict ? blown up houses, wounded people, dead people, street scenes," he said.
Only four photos show the wreckage of still-burning U.S. military vehicles.
"Do we know absolutely everything about him, and what he did before he joined us? No. Are we satisfied that what he did since he joined us was appropriate for the level of work we expected from him? Yes," Lyon said. "When we reviewed the work he submitted to us, we found it appropriate to what we'd asked him to do."
The AP does not knowingly hire combatants or anyone who is part of a story, company executives said. But hiring competent local staff in combat areas is vital to the news service, because often only local people can pick their way around the streets with a reasonable degree of safety.
"We want people who are not part of a story. Sometimes it is a judgment call. If someone seems to be thuggish, or like a fighter, you certainly wouldn't hire them," Daniszewski said. After they are hired, their work is checked carefully for signs of bias.
Lyon said every image from local photographers is always "thoroughly checked and vetted" by experienced editors. "In every case where there have been images of insurgents, questions have been asked about circumstances under which the image was taken, and what the image shows," he said.
Executives said it's not uncommon for AP news people to be picked up by coalition forces and detained for hours, days or occasionally weeks, but never this long. Several hundred journalists in Iraq have been detained, some briefly and some for several weeks, according to Scott Horton, a New York-based lawyer hired by the AP to work on Hussein's case.
Horton also worked on behalf of an Iraqi cameraman employed by CBS, Abdul Ameer Younis Hussein, who was detained for one year before his case was sent to an Iraqi court on charges of insurgent activity. He was acquitted for lack of evidence.
AP officials emphasized the military has not provided the company concrete evidence of its claims against Bilal Hussein, or provided him a chance to offer a defense.
"He's a Sunni Arab from a tribe in that area. I'm sure he does know some nasty people. But is he a participant in the insurgency? I don't think that's been proven," Daniszewski said.
Information provided to the AP by the military to support the continued detention hasn't withstood scrutiny, when it could be checked, Daniszewski said.
For example, he said, the AP had been told that Hussein was involved with the kidnapping of two Arab journalists in Ramadi.
But those journalists, tracked down by the AP, said Hussein had helped them after they were released by their captors without money or a vehicle in a dangerous part of Ramadi. After a journalist acquaintance put them in touch with Hussein, the photographer picked them up, gave them shelter and helped get them out of town, they said.
The journalists said they had never been contacted by multinational forces for their account.
Horton said the military has provided contradictory accounts of whether Hussein himself was a U.S. target last April or if he was caught up in a broader sweep.
The military said bomb-making materials were found in the apartment where Hussein was captured but it never detailed what those materials were. The military said he tested positive for traces of explosives. Horton said that was virtually guaranteed for anyone on the streets of Ramadi at that time.
Hussein has been a frequent target of conservative critics on the Internet, who raised questions about his images months before the military detained him. One blogger and author, Michelle Malkin, wrote about Hussein's detention on the day of his arrest, saying she'd been tipped by a military source.
Carroll said the role of journalists can be misconstrued and make them a target of critics. But that criticism is misplaced, she said.
"How can you know what a conflict is like if you're only with one side of the combatants?" she said. "Journalism doesn't work if we don't report and photograph all sides."
U.S. holds AP photographer in Iraq 5 months By ROBERT TANNER, AP National Writer, 34 minutes ago
The U.S. military in Iraq has imprisoned an Associated Press photographer for five months, accusing him of being a security threat but never filing charges or permitting a public hearing.
Military officials said Bilal Hussein, an Iraqi citizen, was being held for "imperative reasons of security" under United Nations resolutions. AP executives said the news cooperative's review of Hussein's work did not find anything to indicate inappropriate contact with insurgents, and any evidence against him should be brought to the Iraqi criminal justice system.
Hussein, 35, is a native of Fallujah who began work for the AP in September 2004. He photographed events in Fallujah and Ramadi until he was detained on April 12 of this year.
"We want the rule of law to prevail. He either needs to be charged or released. Indefinite detention is not acceptable," said Tom Curley, AP's president and chief executive officer. "We've come to the conclusion that this is unacceptable under Iraqi law, or Geneva Conventions, or any military procedure."
Hussein is one of an estimated 14,000 people detained by the U.S. military worldwide ? 13,000 of them in Iraq. They are held in limbo where few are ever charged with a specific crime or given a chance before any court or tribunal to argue for their freedom.
In Hussein's case, the military has not provided any concrete evidence to back up the vague allegations they have raised about him, Curley and other AP executives said.
The military said Hussein was captured with two insurgents, including Hamid Hamad Motib, an alleged leader of al-Qaida in Iraq. "He has close relationships with persons known to be responsible for kidnappings, smuggling, improvised explosive device (IED) attacks and other attacks on coalition forces," according to a May 7 e-mail from U.S. Army Maj. Gen. Jack Gardner, who oversees all coalition detainees in Iraq.
"The information available establishes that he has relationships with insurgents and is afforded access to insurgent activities outside the normal scope afforded to journalists conducting legitimate activities," Gardner wrote to AP International Editor John Daniszewski.
Hussein proclaims his innocence, according to his Iraqi lawyer, Badie Arief Izzat, and believes he has been unfairly targeted because his photos from Ramadi and Fallujah were deemed unwelcome by the coalition forces.
That Hussein was captured at the same time as insurgents doesn't make him one of them, said Kathleen Carroll, AP's executive editor.
"Journalists have always had relationships with people that others might find unsavory," she said. "We're not in this to choose sides, we're to report what's going on from all sides."
AP executives in New York and Baghdad have sought to persuade U.S. officials to provide additional information about allegations against Hussein and to have his case transferred to the Iraqi criminal justice system. The AP contacted military leaders in Iraq and the Pentagon, and later the U.S. ambassador to Iraq, Zalmay Khalilzad.
The AP has worked quietly until now, believing that would be the best approach. But with the U.S. military giving no indication it would change its stance, the news cooperative has decided to make public Hussein's imprisonment, hoping the spotlight will bring attention to his case and that of thousands of others now held in Iraq, Curley said.
One of Hussein's photos was part of a package of 20 photographs that won a Pulitzer Prize for breaking news photography last year. His contribution was an image of four insurgents in Fallujah firing a mortar and small arms during the U.S.-led offensive in the city in November 2004.
In what several AP editors described as a typical path for locally hired staff in the midst of a conflict, Hussein, a shopkeeper who sold cell phones and computers in Fallujah, was hired in the city as a general helper because of his local knowledge.
As the situation in Fallujah eroded in 2004, he expressed a desire to become a photographer. Hussein was given training and camera equipment and hired in September of that year as a freelancer, paid on a per-picture basis, according to Santiago Lyon, AP's director of photography. A month later, he was put on a monthly retainer.
During the U.S.-led offensive in Fallujah in November 2004, he stayed on after his family fled. "He had good access. He was able to photograph not only the results of the attacks on Fallujah, he was also able to photograph members of the insurgency on occasion," Lyon said. "That was very difficult to achieve at that time."
After fleeing later in the offensive, leaving his camera behind in the rush to escape, Hussein arrived in Baghdad, where the AP gave him a new camera. He then went to work in Ramadi which, like Fallujah, has been a center of insurgent violence.
In its own effort to determine whether Hussein had gotten too close the insurgency, the AP has reviewed his work record, interviewed senior photo editors who worked on his images and examined all 420 photographs in the news cooperative's archives that were taken by Hussein, Lyon said.
The military in Iraq has frequently detained journalists who arrive quickly at scenes of violence, accusing them of getting advance notice from insurgents, Lyon said. But "that's just good journalism. Getting to the event quickly is something that characterizes good journalism anywhere in the world. It does not indicate prior knowledge," he said.
Out of Hussein's body of work, only 37 photos show insurgents or people who could be insurgents, Lyon said. "The vast majority of the 420 images show the aftermath or the results of the conflict ? blown up houses, wounded people, dead people, street scenes," he said.
Only four photos show the wreckage of still-burning U.S. military vehicles.
"Do we know absolutely everything about him, and what he did before he joined us? No. Are we satisfied that what he did since he joined us was appropriate for the level of work we expected from him? Yes," Lyon said. "When we reviewed the work he submitted to us, we found it appropriate to what we'd asked him to do."
The AP does not knowingly hire combatants or anyone who is part of a story, company executives said. But hiring competent local staff in combat areas is vital to the news service, because often only local people can pick their way around the streets with a reasonable degree of safety.
"We want people who are not part of a story. Sometimes it is a judgment call. If someone seems to be thuggish, or like a fighter, you certainly wouldn't hire them," Daniszewski said. After they are hired, their work is checked carefully for signs of bias.
Lyon said every image from local photographers is always "thoroughly checked and vetted" by experienced editors. "In every case where there have been images of insurgents, questions have been asked about circumstances under which the image was taken, and what the image shows," he said.
Executives said it's not uncommon for AP news people to be picked up by coalition forces and detained for hours, days or occasionally weeks, but never this long. Several hundred journalists in Iraq have been detained, some briefly and some for several weeks, according to Scott Horton, a New York-based lawyer hired by the AP to work on Hussein's case.
Horton also worked on behalf of an Iraqi cameraman employed by CBS, Abdul Ameer Younis Hussein, who was detained for one year before his case was sent to an Iraqi court on charges of insurgent activity. He was acquitted for lack of evidence.
AP officials emphasized the military has not provided the company concrete evidence of its claims against Bilal Hussein, or provided him a chance to offer a defense.
"He's a Sunni Arab from a tribe in that area. I'm sure he does know some nasty people. But is he a participant in the insurgency? I don't think that's been proven," Daniszewski said.
Information provided to the AP by the military to support the continued detention hasn't withstood scrutiny, when it could be checked, Daniszewski said.
For example, he said, the AP had been told that Hussein was involved with the kidnapping of two Arab journalists in Ramadi.
But those journalists, tracked down by the AP, said Hussein had helped them after they were released by their captors without money or a vehicle in a dangerous part of Ramadi. After a journalist acquaintance put them in touch with Hussein, the photographer picked them up, gave them shelter and helped get them out of town, they said.
The journalists said they had never been contacted by multinational forces for their account.
Horton said the military has provided contradictory accounts of whether Hussein himself was a U.S. target last April or if he was caught up in a broader sweep.
The military said bomb-making materials were found in the apartment where Hussein was captured but it never detailed what those materials were. The military said he tested positive for traces of explosives. Horton said that was virtually guaranteed for anyone on the streets of Ramadi at that time.
Hussein has been a frequent target of conservative critics on the Internet, who raised questions about his images months before the military detained him. One blogger and author, Michelle Malkin, wrote about Hussein's detention on the day of his arrest, saying she'd been tipped by a military source.
Carroll said the role of journalists can be misconstrued and make them a target of critics. But that criticism is misplaced, she said.
"How can you know what a conflict is like if you're only with one side of the combatants?" she said. "Journalism doesn't work if we don't report and photograph all sides."
Curioulsy, the details released by the military. . . are easily refuted as being FALSE.
Hmm, so evidence provided the military comes in four flavors:
1) demonstrably false
2) multiple contradictory accounts
3) phantom
4) linked to retarded conservative bloggers
ericlp
Diamond Member
- Dec 24, 2000
- 6,133
- 219
- 106
Yep, as soon as this is an OK thing to do, just wait till it comes home and they start pulling this crap on us here at home. By howdy! Another right down the crapper. At this point I really don't think anyone cares. As long as you go to church, pay your taxes and act really dumb...you might survive in the USA.
In the mean time for the rest of us, all your phones and internet will be wire tapped and monitored closely. So, yeah why should they care?
palehorse
Lifer
- Dec 21, 2005
- 11,521
- 0
- 76
once we're finished interrogating him and using him to the fullest possible extent possible in terms of intelligence value; then yes, perhaps the trial process could begin... maybe.. unless some other agency comes along and wishes to ask Achmed a few more months worth of questions about the type of cell phones used in his particular district to set off IED's, or perhaps just the building materials used in the average home in his village. Heck, maybe the guy is smart and it takes 6-12 months of interrogation just to break him! so be it. (Are you trying to give interrogators a time limit?)
once all the agencies are done using Muhammed for intel, then yes, you panzies can have him for a nice fair trial... however, he will not be allowed to hear any of the evidence against him because the sources and methods used to collect it will all be VERY critical classified info. thus, the trial will be all show... but hey, that will make you all happy, right?
JAG should determine when trials happen, NOT congress.
thankyou much.
Spoken like a truly short-sighted person who has never had the misfortune of being on the wrong end of an accidental arrest. I have been on the wrong end of a misidentification leading to an arrest. I've never experienced a worse feeling in my life, and it only lasted about 15-20 minutes. The presumption of innocence is the greatest boon to civilization that I can think of, yet you would cast it away like so much trash. Heaven forbid you ever encounter a need for it.
JEDIYoda
Lifer
- Jul 13, 2005
- 33,981
- 3,318
- 126
http://www.conspiracyplanet.com/channel.cfm?channelid=49&contentid=3900&page=1
hahahahaaaa.......thats the most unaccurate site around....hmm its the site you listed....rofl... http://www.conspiracyplanet.com/channel.cfm?channelid=49&contentid=3900&page=1
ProfJohn
Lifer
- Jul 28, 2006
- 18,251
- 8
- 0
I think there is a chance we are being fooled by the label "reporter" when it comes to this guy.
Read the article, he has no journalism school background, just one day he decided to become a photographer and the AP hires him. AP needed photographers who would work in dangerous areas, this guy fit the bill so hired him.
Based on what we have seen from the Hezbollah mess and the AP photographer who altered images is there a chance that this guy is not as clean as we are lead to believe?
The AP really has no information about him, or what he did before they hired him, for all they know he could have been a terrorist himself.
Essentially, we are all being told how awful it is that this guy was held for 5 months, and yet we don't have all the facts. Is he just a photographer with a knack to show up at the right time and place, or could he be working for or even just sympathize with the terrorists? We don't know.
Could the fact that he was picked up with the leader of al Qaeda in Iraq point that he may have ties, or at least agree with them?
If you were in Iraq and had to make a decision on this guy based on what I just said is it possible that you might want him detained too?
Maybe he is innocent, maybe he isn't, but there seems to be some reasonable suspicion.
Read the article, he has no journalism school background, just one day he decided to become a photographer and the AP hires him. AP needed photographers who would work in dangerous areas, this guy fit the bill so hired him.
Based on what we have seen from the Hezbollah mess and the AP photographer who altered images is there a chance that this guy is not as clean as we are lead to believe?
The AP really has no information about him, or what he did before they hired him, for all they know he could have been a terrorist himself.
Essentially, we are all being told how awful it is that this guy was held for 5 months, and yet we don't have all the facts. Is he just a photographer with a knack to show up at the right time and place, or could he be working for or even just sympathize with the terrorists? We don't know.
Could the fact that he was picked up with the leader of al Qaeda in Iraq point that he may have ties, or at least agree with them?
If you were in Iraq and had to make a decision on this guy based on what I just said is it possible that you might want him detained too?
Maybe he is innocent, maybe he isn't, but there seems to be some reasonable suspicion.
ProfJohn
Lifer
- Jul 28, 2006
- 18,251
- 8
- 0
More information about this guy, some interesting questions.
A photo of his
Letter from AP spokesperson:
Michelle Malkin post about him
Go to some of the links and read the information and look at his pictures and then ask yourself if you don't understand why the military might have had some interest in him. He seemed to have a knack for showing up at the right time, and for getting terrorist to pose in just the right positions.
Just becaue the military never charged him doesn't mean he is innocent, they just may have not had enough information to do anything.
A photo of his
Powerline article
Letter from AP spokesperson:
Nice article showing some his pictures and the questions raised by them
Michelle Malkin post about him
Go to some of the links and read the information and look at his pictures and then ask yourself if you don't understand why the military might have had some interest in him. He seemed to have a knack for showing up at the right time, and for getting terrorist to pose in just the right positions.
Just becaue the military never charged him doesn't mean he is innocent, they just may have not had enough information to do anything.
John Smith told me he saw you robbing a convenience store the other day. That makes me reasonably suspicious of you, so I suppose I will hold you without trial for five months, since you threaten the security of convenience stores. See how easy it is? Where is the presumption of innocence, that pillar of true civilization?
palehorse
Lifer
- Dec 21, 2005
- 11,521
- 0
- 76
Is ProfJohn a US citizen and this robbery took place on US soil? no and no? then go for it. Hold onto him until he no longer has intel value or until JAG says it's time to try and fry his arse.
presumptions of innocence dissappear VERY quickly on the battlefield, and there is no reason whatsoever that we should extend our consititutional ideals to cover our enemies. none! doing so will tie our hands even further than they already are, and we'll never win another war. Most of the fools here cant comprehend that though. For some reason they all think a war should b like one big long episode of COPS down in Orange County, USA...
The next thing they'll be asking for is a 3-strike rules, rehab for detainees, or home arrest sentences. He shot and killed 3 of your buddies? no problem! we'll just put this cute little ankle bracelet on him and make sure he only leaves his house to go to work... in Ramadi... with an AK... or a cell phone... or a belt filled with explosives...or...
thraashman
Lifer
- Apr 10, 2000
- 11,072
- 1,476
- 126
It almost makes me cry to think that there's an American out there that thinks like you Palehorse. I'm serious. Your method of thinking is EXACTLY the same method of thinking as the people we're fighting against. You think because they're different, because they're not American, that we don't have to treat them like people. The Declaration of Independence for the United States of America states "All men are created equal". That idea is the ENTIRE basis for American society. Not all Americans are created equal, not all non Muslims are created equal, all men. And Americans have intelligently realized that by that it actually means ALL PEOPLE. The Constitution, while only applying to people with US citizenship, was drafted with the intent of treating everyone fairly. Just because we're not dealing with the problem domestically doesn't mean we should completely ignore the ideal. The big freaking argument that Bush is trying to stick to now for Iraq, since all others have proven null, is that we're trying to instill a stable, democratic government there. Well then why aren't we letting this man be treated like he was in a fair, democratic government if that's what we're trying to insill. Instead we're treating him like he was caught in 1950's Russia and he's in a Stalinist regime. If this man had been American and caught with the same people, we wouldn't have done this same thing. If this man had been European and caught with the same men, we wouldn't have done the same thing. The ONLY reason we're treating this man this way is his religion and the color of his skin.
It straight out sickens me that anyone, ANYONE thinks of as less of a person simply because they're not American. That's the problem. What we like to call "the Enemy" thinks the same way. They think that Allah is on their side and not ours and that makes us less human than they are, and thus expendable. They think less of human life than they do of this ideal. Well I keep seeing Americans like you who think nothing of human like that's not American, which is just as sick of an ideal. So I just have to say that you sicken me and it truly saddens me to know that a person like you exists. The reason we're in this situation is because they think exactly like you do.
It can disappear on the battlefield. However, this guy is no longer on the battlefield. He's sitting in a jail cell somewhere under lock and key and he has no idea why, since no one is allowed to see the evidence against him.
You really think that our constitutional protections should not apply to non-Americans? The logical extension of this is that, when you are overseas, no constitutional protections of other nations would protect you, either. Visit France, be locked away forever without any reason. You want to deprive others of basic human rights? Then you have no standing to hope for maintenance of your rights.
Perhaps Richard Gere was right. Maybe we should have simply turned the other cheek. Then we wouldn't have to compromise our principles on a daily basis on the battlefield. I know people from Afghanistan and Iraq that are glad we have gone there and done what we've done, but I know many more Americans that regret it, having borne the brunt of the burden.
judasmachine
Diamond Member
- Sep 15, 2002
- 8,515
- 3
- 81
Walter Cronkite is rolling over in his 'grave.' I bet he had the generals and secretaries looking for loopholes to jail him too.
ProfJohn
Lifer
- Jul 28, 2006
- 18,251
- 8
- 0
Did any of you actually look at the links I posted, or did you read my post and form your opinion on that and what you already think?
Cyclo, this isn't a case of "John told me he saw you" this is a guy who was caught hanging out with the leader of Al Qaeda in Iraq.
Sandorski, I under stand what you are saying.
However, this guy is the only reporter to have been on scene with an election work was executed in the middle of the street during one of the Iraqi elections. How did he end up there at that time and place? Someone told him to be there for a "demonstration" You can tell from the picture he had no fear for his life, but looks to just be standing there watching 3 masked men shoot someone.
Secondly, this guy seems to have a knack for shooting pictures of Iraq terrorists in "posed" photos. Nice pictures of guys aiming their machine guns and RPGs are brick walls, never know when that wall might attack you.
Google his name "Bilal Hussein" and check out some of the links.
Here is another set of his photos
Italian national Salvatore Santoro's body is show after his execution
If this guy is really just getting good shots then he is the best damn photographer on the planet.
Only guy on site to photograph an election working being killed in broad daylight, and the only photographer around to be shown the dead body of an Italian national.
Maybe he really is innocent, but he seems to have a knack for showing up when the terrorist need him most.
ProfJohn
Lifer
- Jul 28, 2006
- 18,251
- 8
- 0
As I said, I agree with you that he could be innocent. But do you not agree that what he did and where he was would give the military good reason to think that he might be a member of the insurgency himself?
I trust the men and women of our military to do the right thing. Maybe you don't?
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