Heatsink disappointment

[Daverino]

I have been on these forums for a while and have tried to pick out imbalanced or histrionic posts about coolers not doing this or that when custom cooling really is a 'your actual mileage may vary' kinda affair. A few months ago, people were piling on Thermalright because their U120-X didn't seem to be performing up to spec. After a while it appeared that there was truth to the whole thing and that Thermalright had some QA problems. I've had nothing but positive experiences with Thermalright, though. I really wanted the Ultima-90 cooler because it offered great performance in a small package. The problems with the U120-X didn't appear to include the Ultima 90. So when I decided to upgrade back around Thanksgiving, I went for the Thermalright product.

I purchased the cooler from FrozenCPU. It's located in my home town, so I feel a sense of loyalty to the place. In fact I've always bought from them, even though it always costs me a few dollars more. I received my new chip and mobo about 2 weeks before the Ultima-90 and installed the SI-120 that I was going to replace in the meantime. After some time calibrating things, my temperatures were pretty good (E6750 chip). I would idle at about 25C and peak out at around 43 (24C ambient). When I got the Ultima 90 I was expecting to see the a performance increase. Instead, my idle went to around 29-30 and peak went to 48-49. Swapping in larger fans did not change the cooling. I re-set the sink about 5 times, although each time I removed it, it looked like I had a good dispersion of thermal compound. I eventually came to the conclusion that the heat pipes were likely not functioning as expected.

I contacted FrozenCPU and they said that they would take a look at it while I was back in town for XMas. When I got here, though, they said there was nothing they could do. In fact I was told, "Once you install it we cannot take it back." I looked through FrozenCPU's web page and I saw nothing that said that you could not return a product if it had been installed. How on earth would I discover something was defective without installing it? I've talked to three guys there today and they all gave me the same response. I'm pretty floored. That's got to be the worst unadvertised return policy I've ever encountered. Boy do I feel like a sucker! I could have gotten the cooler for $5.00 less than I paid for it and two weeks sooner if I had purchased from Jab-tech. After tossing hundreds of dollars at that place over the past two years, and recommending them on these forums, I think I'm done with them. According to FrozenCPU, my only recourse is through Thermalright.

Which is funny, because I've been on the phone with them today as well. They insist that my only recourse is through FrozenCPU. I was told, honestly, that the Ultima-90 should not outperform the SI-120 and that what I really needed to do was buy the U120-X if I wanted better cooling. And since the temperatures I stated are apparently within the realm of possibility for the Ultima-90, there's probably nothing wrong with it. That's a bit like telling someone that bought a Porsche that turns out performing like a Honda that they should be happy because they still have a reasonable car. I'm going to call one more time and see if I can get it replaced by Thermalright. But at this point I'm a bit disgusted with everyone involved.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Might be a problem with the Ultima-90s mounting hardware. As I recall, some other Ultima-90 buyers here in the forums had problems with the hardware that actually shipped. Have you had any issues?

Scroll down in this post:

http://forums.anandtech.com/me...id=37&threadid=2074538

and read some posts by nowise and some responses. It seems to be mobo-specific?

Besides all that, it sucks that FrozenCPU won't help you or even accept a return. The fact that they won't take it back after an installation is bogus. If you have the time for it, I'd take them to small claims court.

 

[nyker96]

Originally posted by: Daverino

Which is funny, because I've been on the phone with them today as well. They insist that my only recourse is through FrozenCPU. I was told, honestly, that the Ultima-90 should not outperform the SI-120 and that what I really needed to do was buy the U120-X if I wanted better cooling. And since the temperatures I stated are apparently within the realm of possibility for the Ultima-90, there's probably nothing wrong with it. That's a bit like telling someone that bought a Porsche that turns out performing like a Honda that they should be happy because they still have a reasonable car. I'm going to call one more time and see if I can get it replaced by Thermalright. But at this point I'm a bit disgusted with everyone involved.

sorry to hear about the poor services from both the manufacture and the retailer. I always thought frozencpu has a good reputation although I never order from them personally. Hey my suggestion is just wrap that guy up sell it off on ebay. If it doesn't perform it's not useful for you. Instead get the nice Tuniq 120 from the newegg. which I got mine for 45 shipped. The thing dropped about 13 degrees off load compare to my older freezer 7 pro and mind that freezer 7 is about 10 degrees cooler than stock. So you got the idea. This little gem would give ya the frost bite if you touch it, it's just a powerful cooler. And no need to add extra fan, it comes with fan plus controller all in a single package. One tip, if you buy tuniq I recommend AS5 instead of the included MX-1 junk. That's it.

 

[VinDSL]

Sticky!

My first 5-star rating in these threads...

 

[jonmcc33]

I've purchased many times from FrozenCPU. Great place to buy from!

 

[DrMrLordX]

All things considered, I would think he'd be better off sticking with his original HSF (SI-120) since it has done so well on his new CPU already. The Ultima-90 should be better than either it or the Tuniq Tower 120, but if it's not making good, consistent contact with the IHS due to mounting mechanism problems then it's just not going to work well.

There is also the possibility it is bowed in such a way that it is not making good contact with the IHS, in which case lapping the HSF might help things (or lapping HSF + IHS).

Also, the notion that the Ultima-90 is inferior to the SI-120 is garbage, especially coming from Thermalright.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Give them a bad review on resellerratings.com

 

[aigomorla]

The ultima90 sucks hardcore. I dont understand why you people have such high hopes for it.

I got to play with one, and its absolute crap compared to the ultra120.


Also i think your expecting too much out of the ultima90. Your temps seem to be near what you should be getting on something like that.



Lastly on the return: If you open the box, use the screws and scratch the base[impossible not to once you mount it], peal the adhesive, and use the TIM. How do you expect them to resell it? Sorry sinks once opened shouldnt be allowed a return unless you see a true manufactors defect. Same rules with waterblocks. There isnt any return once opened and used.

Its just not fair the next person who picks it up. And i dont think sinks have a RDM for returns.


Also frozencpu has EVERYTHING you could possibly need. There one of the largest cooling/modding supply stores online. The only store to come close to it would be performance-pcs, and Jab-Tech. I honestly dont think they really care about losing 1 customer. :X Its almost like saying i'll never shop at honda again..


Personally i dont shop at frozen. I like Jab-Tech, cuz i developed a friendship with the owner John the past 2 yrs shopping at his store. He's a very friendly and very helpful person. Also Petrastechshop.com owner Alex, is another favorate store of mine. If i cant find it at these two stores, the last and ultimate is performance-pcs, whose owner is hank.

And yes its nice to know the owners by first name basis.. Umm.. i dont know hank tho.

 

[Boyo]

Originally posted by: aigomorla
The ultima90 sucks hardcore. I dont understand why you people have such high hopes for it.

I got to play with one, and its absolute crap compared to the ultra120.


Also i think your expecting too much out of the ultima90. Your temps seem to be near what you should be getting on something like that.



Lastly on the return: If you open the box, use the screws and scratch the base[impossible not to once you mount it], peal the adhesive, and use the TIM. How do you expect them to resell it? Sorry sinks once opened shouldnt be allowed a return unless you see a true manufactors defect. Same rules with waterblocks. There isnt any return once opened and used.

Its just not fair the next person who picks it up. And i dont think sinks have a RDM for returns.


Also frozencpu has EVERYTHING you could possibly need. There one of the largest cooling/modding supply stores online. The only store to come close to it would be performance-pcs, and Jab-Tech. I honestly dont think they really care about losing 1 customer. :X Its almost like saying i'll never shop at honda again..


Personally i dont shop at frozen. I like Jab-Tech, cuz i developed a friendship with the owner John the past 2 yrs shopping at his store. He's a very friendly and very helpful person. Also Petrastechshop.com owner Alex, is another favorate store of mine. If i cant find it at these two stores, the last and ultimate is performance-pcs, whose owner is hank.

And yes its nice to know the owners by first name basis.. Umm.. i dont know hank tho.

I quit shopping at Performance-PC's. Their customer service sucks...They sold me a DOA OCZ PSU, which I paid extra to have sleeved, and they wouldn't take it back. They made me RMA it which took two weeks...thanks for the help, Hank....

 

[Daverino]

Originally posted by: aigomorla
Lastly on the return: If you open the box, use the screws and scratch the base[impossible not to once you mount it], peal the adhesive, and use the TIM. How do you expect them to resell it? Sorry sinks once opened shouldnt be allowed a return unless you see a true manufactors defect. Same rules with waterblocks. There isnt any return once opened and used.

Its just not fair the next person who picks it up. And i dont think sinks have a RDM for returns.

That's the Catch-22 that I've run into. There's no way to prove that it's defective. It cools, sorta. Just not at the levels it should. Like I said, I bought a piece of performance hardware that turned out to be merely functional. Either that or I have the best SI-120 in the world. But since I can't 'prove' that it's defective, there's no way to return it. How would one ever do that? If you were swapping out a mid-range water block for a high-end water block and saw your temperatures rise, you would not honestly be satisfied. Or if you bought a Nexus silent fan that howled like a Banshee but otherwise worked?

So that's the question. At what point is a piece of cooling equipment considered defective? In this case, because I cannot get the temperatures to change by altering the CFM going through the fins and the contact looks good, I would consider that symptomatic of a heatpipe problem. Short of cutting it open, though, there's no real way to tell.

I suppose at this point I might as well lap it. I don't get, now, the big hullabaloo about the manufacturer's warranty when apparently it can never be invoked anyhow.

 

[zagood]

I've had great customer service from performance-pcs, can't comment on anyone else's.

And Daverino, sorry you didn't get the performance you expected...lame that you're being passed back and forth, I hate that crap.

-z

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: Daverino

Originally posted by: aigomorla
Lastly on the return: If you open the box, use the screws and scratch the base[impossible not to once you mount it], peal the adhesive, and use the TIM. How do you expect them to resell it? Sorry sinks once opened shouldnt be allowed a return unless you see a true manufactors defect. Same rules with waterblocks. There isnt any return once opened and used.

Its just not fair the next person who picks it up. And i dont think sinks have a RDM for returns.

That's the Catch-22 that I've run into. There's no way to prove that it's defective. It cools, sorta. Just not at the levels it should. Like I said, I bought a piece of performance hardware that turned out to be merely functional. Either that or I have the best SI-120 in the world. But since I can't 'prove' that it's defective, there's no way to return it. How would one ever do that? If you were swapping out a mid-range water block for a high-end water block and saw your temperatures rise, you would not honestly be satisfied. Or if you bought a Nexus silent fan that howled like a Banshee but otherwise worked?

So that's the question. At what point is a piece of cooling equipment considered defective? In this case, because I cannot get the temperatures to change by altering the CFM going through the fins and the contact looks good, I would consider that symptomatic of a heatpipe problem. Short of cutting it open, though, there's no real way to tell.

I suppose at this point I might as well lap it. I don't get, now, the big hullabaloo about the manufacturer's warranty when apparently it can never be invoked anyhow.

If you absolutely think its defective, just RMA it back to thermalright. Recall them and tell them exactly what frozencpu said to you. But im honestly telling you, the ultima90 isnt all that hot. Vins favorate, the tuniq tower would stomp it square. :X So would is bigger sister the ultra120.

You need to put more heat on the cpu to see its true benfits. Like a quadcore...

But at your low end point... and i say low end cause

Dualcores ~ 89-109W of heat max...
Quadcore ~ 175-210W of heat

You really wont see much of a big difference unless you can majorly drop your ambients. Sinks are just more efficient at higher heat loads + higher delta ambients.

That why i think its not defective, and its doing what it should be doing. Unless someone can show me where my logic is wrong.


I honestly think your SI-120 could of done better if you could drop your ambients. Seeing how there isnt a big difference in temps, im guessing you have issues with ambient temps and not sink performance.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Originally posted by: aigomorla

If you absolutely think its defective, just RMA it back to thermalright. Recall them and tell them exactly what frozencpu said to you. But im honestly telling you, the ultima90 isnt all that hot. Vins favorate, the tuniq tower would stomp it square. :X So would is bigger sister the ultra120.

I dunno, while it's not a perfect representation of HSF performance, Anandtech's review of the Ultima-90 cast it in a fairly positive light:

http://www.anandtech.com/casec...howdoc.aspx?i=3068&p=4

It's very close to the Tuniq Tower 120 in performance there (my mistake earlier in the thread; I had thought the Ultima-90 beat it, which it did not). I have no idea what speed fans the OP tried, so that might have had an effect.

Their initial review was produced using the old mounting system which did not ship with the retail Ultima-90 . . . they claimed in an update that the new mounting system produced similar results, but I have to wonder how much of their testing was reproduced with the retail mounting hardware.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: Daverino

Originally posted by: aigomorla
Lastly on the return: If you open the box, use the screws and scratch the base[impossible not to once you mount it], peal the adhesive, and use the TIM. How do you expect them to resell it? Sorry sinks once opened shouldnt be allowed a return unless you see a true manufactors defect. Same rules with waterblocks. There isnt any return once opened and used.

Its just not fair the next person who picks it up. And i dont think sinks have a RDM for returns.

That's the Catch-22 that I've run into. There's no way to prove that it's defective. It cools, sorta. Just not at the levels it should. Like I said, I bought a piece of performance hardware that turned out to be merely functional. Either that or I have the best SI-120 in the world. But since I can't 'prove' that it's defective, there's no way to return it. How would one ever do that? If you were swapping out a mid-range water block for a high-end water block and saw your temperatures rise, you would not honestly be satisfied. Or if you bought a Nexus silent fan that howled like a Banshee but otherwise worked?

So that's the question. At what point is a piece of cooling equipment considered defective? In this case, because I cannot get the temperatures to change by altering the CFM going through the fins and the contact looks good, I would consider that symptomatic of a heatpipe problem. Short of cutting it open, though, there's no real way to tell.

I suppose at this point I might as well lap it. I don't get, now, the big hullabaloo about the manufacturer's warranty when apparently it can never be invoked anyhow.

well thats easy to answer.......for the most part as soon as you open the box take a flat ruler and male sure it is absolutely flat...
If its not flat call the company...most have 800 ####
Then if they say it`s suppose to be flat or not you decide if you need to RMA the puppy...
Once you install it you are usually SOL!!

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: DrMrLordX

Originally posted by: aigomorla

If you absolutely think its defective, just RMA it back to thermalright. Recall them and tell them exactly what frozencpu said to you. But im honestly telling you, the ultima90 isnt all that hot. Vins favorate, the tuniq tower would stomp it square. :X So would is bigger sister the ultra120.

I dunno, while it's not a perfect representation of HSF performance, Anandtech's review of the Ultima-90 cast it in a fairly positive light:

http://www.anandtech.com/casec...howdoc.aspx?i=3068&p=4

It's very close to the Tuniq Tower 120 in performance there (my mistake earlier in the thread; I had thought the Ultima-90 beat it, which it did not). I have no idea what speed fans the OP tried, so that might have had an effect.

Their initial review was produced using the old mounting system which did not ship with the retail Ultima-90 . . . they claimed in an update that the new mounting system produced similar results, but I have to wonder how much of their testing was reproduced with the retail mounting hardware.

Not to demean this sites reviews.....but heat sinks are a totally different animal....
For the most part terminoogy is skewered in most reviews.....by this site and other sites when it comes to evaluating heatsinks....

The words very close mean what exactly?? To be honest they mean nothing when dealing with heat sinks!
Ultra 120 Extreme at the top of the pack...means what exactly....lol
I would place the Tuniq Tower along with the Ultra 120 Extreme at the top of the pack...then would be the SI 128 and the XP 120......possibly the Big Typhoon along with the Zalman 9700 and rounding that list would be the Scythe Ninja and a few others.

Teir 2 IMO would be the Ultima 90 and the Zalman 9500 and then things get funky real fast....

In the world of heatsink evaluation IMO 2 to 3 degrees is a huge difference and is what sepearates the Teir 1`s from the teir 2`s.

Also there are companies like Gigabyte and ASUS and others that have nice looking heatsinks that work real well!

Also I remember when the Scythe Ninja was kicking ass in almost every review at the time.
People on these forums would purchase the Ninja and complain because the temps were the same as with their old heatsink.
Why?
Mainly because they were swapping another top of the line heatsink for a newer top of the line.
The real deal is you quite possibly in your system could be getting fantastic temps and then swap out what you have for the Tuniq Tower and get worse results.
I have no explanation other than from computer to computer there are different variables involved.
As much as we would like to think that heatsinks are an exact science.....truth be told nope!!


Peace!!

 

[Assimilator1]

aigomorla
The ultima90 sucks hardcore. I dont understand why you people have such high hopes for it.

I got to play with one, and its absolute crap compared to the ultra120.

Considering its specs I don't see any reason why you think it's so poor ,also what you say directly contradicts Anandtechs review of it and this review
ATs review show the Ultima 90 just a tiny bit behind the Tuniq tower & Ultra 120 (non X).Are you saying that review is bogus ?? where's your data to show otherwise?

Daverino
Sorry to hear that your Ult 90 isn't working as well as you expected
Out of interest ,do the temps drop if you have the PC on its side? (so that the Ult 90 is upright),or if you counter gravity on your HSF by slightly lifting it?
Btw what spec is the SI 120?
Oh and you guys have got me worried now as I've just got an Ult 90! ,though it has to be a load better than my Katana 2!............

JEDIYoda
If you had actually read ATs review you would of seen that they had posted large graphs with temperatures all over them, so they don't relie on words alone to describe its performance.
And at least at the top end of the clock frequencies AT tested at ,2-3C is a small difference.Unless you are after ever last % of cooling power then it isn't worth bothering with.
HSF science could be exact if they are manufactured the same each time (within reason).

Are we really saying their is that big a difference in heatpipe manufacturing?

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: Assimilator1
aigomorla
The ultima90 sucks hardcore. I dont understand why you people have such high hopes for it.

I got to play with one, and its absolute crap compared to the ultra120.

Considering its specs I don't see any reason why you think it's so poor ,also what you say directly contradicts Anandtechs review of it and this review
ATs review show the Ultima 90 just a tiny bit behind the Tuniq tower & Ultra 120 (non X).Are you saying that review is bogus ?? where's your data to show otherwise?

Daverino
Sorry to hear that your Ult 90 isn't working as well as you expected
Out of interest ,do the temps drop if you have the PC on its side? (so that the Ult 90 is upright),or if you counter gravity on your HSF by slightly lifting it?
Btw what spec is the SI 120?
Oh and you guys have got me worried now as I've just got an Ult 90! ,though it has to be a load better than my Katana 2!............

JEDIYoda
If you had actually read ATs review you would of seen that they had posted large graphs with temperatures all over them, so they don't relie on words alone to describe its performance.
And at least at the top end of the clock frequencies AT tested at ,2-3C is a small difference.Unless you are after ever last % of cooling power then it isn't worth bothering with.
HSF science could be exact if they are manufactured the same each time (within reason).

Are we really saying their is that big a difference in heatpipe manufacturing?

I did read AT`s review....
What you don`t seem to understand is that from system to system you cannot say there is one best heatsink and that applies to all systems.
AT`s review was good but all reviews are a mixed bag at best.
What reviews do not take into account are the intagiables from on ssytem to another.
Had you read what I posted you would have read my Svythe Ninja example.
But no you start defending AT`s heatsink reviews with out reading and comprehending my post!!
Graphs and charts only mean that for that configuration and under those set of variables...such as ambients temperature and how many fans do you have hooked up and positive verses negative pressure in your care..etc..ect.....

You cannot take what AT posted and apply that accross the board to all the different sustems and set ups and still say the brand A is better than Brand B......or you get lower temps when using brand A than from using Brand B....

In the heatsink world it never works that way.....
Thats why you have people who Love the Zalman 9700 and those whole love the Tuniq Tower and those who Love the SI 128....or the ASUS Beatle.....etc...etc....

Has nothing to do with the manufacturing....
Most people who are noobs to this heatsink thing will purchase what they believe is the latest and greatest then when they hook it up they will post that they got ripped off and such and such heatdsink sucks.

Why is that?


All the above...

Peace!!

P.S -- did I mention that my friend aigomorla is absolutely correct?

 

[aigomorla]

@Assimultor

Please review anandtechs review on what CPU they used. Then reread my explaination above again. That should clear things up with you. Once again, you need a larger heat load to give you better results, which the OP doesnt have.

@ the review with the X6800 the sink peformance is paced with a scythe ninja. Hence why i still go with my statement. On small heat loads, your asking for too much.

Look at the quad spread on these sinks, and you'll see how the scale better with higher heat loads.

 

[Assimilator1]

You said
The words very close mean what exactly?? To be honest they mean nothing when dealing with heat sinks!
Ultra 120 Extreme at the top of the pack...means what exactly....lol

That strongly implied that the review was only quantifying HSF performance by words alone ,if that's not what you meant then its not my fault you were un-intentially misleading

What you don`t seem to understand is that from system to system you cannot say there is one best heatsink and that applies to all systems.
Maybe your right there that I didn't understand that ,niether am I convinced that is the case yet.If HSF xxxx removes the most amount of heat from the CPU than any other HSF then it'll do so in any case ,just in a cramped case or poorly cooled case the CPU temps will be higher.If you have figures to prove otherwise then I'd be interested to read them*:thumbsup:

You cannot take what AT posted and apply that accross the board to all the different sustems and set ups and still say the brand A is better than Brand B......or you get lower temps when using brand A than from using Brand B....

*I disagree ,prove to me otherwise. (though in your above post I'd replace 'brand' with 'model' but I get what you meant).
I had read what you posted about the Ninja & it made no difference

But no you start defending AT`s heatsink reviews with out reading and comprehending my post!!
Rubbish of course I read it 1st:roll: ,misunderstood it? maybe ,but when you said ......

by this site and other sites when it comes to evaluating heatsinks....
The words very close mean what exactly?? To be honest they mean nothing when dealing with heat sinks!
Ultra 120 Extreme at the top of the pack...means what exactly....lol

.....which is saying that AT didn't bother with figures what do you expect? you mis-represented it.Btw you attacked his review without anything to back it up with ,hence I questioned you.If it's done something wrong (wouldn't be a 1st) ,then fine say so, & explain what & why.

And yes I know that CPU temp will be different between different systems with the same HSF & CPU speed etc, I would of thought that be obvious ,but overall the HSF 'rankings' if you like will be the same.The best will stay the best & the worst will stay the worst regardless of case etc*.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: Assimilator1
You said
The words very close mean what exactly?? To be honest they mean nothing when dealing with heat sinks!
Ultra 120 Extreme at the top of the pack...means what exactly....lol

That strongly implied that the review was only quantifying HSF performance by words alone ,if that's not what you meant then its not my fault you were un-intentially misleading

What you don`t seem to understand is that from system to system you cannot say there is one best heatsink and that applies to all systems.
Maybe your right there that I didn't understand that ,niether am I convinced that is the case yet.If HSF xxxx removes the most amount of heat from the CPU than any other HSF then it'll do so in any case ,just in a cramped case or poorly cooled case the CPU temps will be higher.If you have figures to prove otherwise then I'd be interested to read them*:thumbsup:

You see you are assuming that is the case across the board from one case to another and I am sorry if you read posts from over a year or so you will find that to not be the case. The Scythe Ninja being the prime example again!
You cannot take what AT posted and apply that accross the board to all the different sustems and set ups and still say the brand A is better than Brand B......or you get lower temps when using brand A than from using Brand B....

*I disagree ,prove to me otherwise. (though in your above post I'd replace 'brand' with 'model' but I get what you meant).
I had read what you posted about the Ninja & it made no difference

Thats all nice and good but it`s just not the way things really are. Bonzai Duck and I went round and round a few years ago about this very subject...you cannot discount the intagibles.
Yet with that said-- Most of the time your top heatsink do perform as stated yet the tiniest variance from one to the other even a degree or 2 is what seperates IMO the Teir 1`s from the Teir 2`s......
What do you say to the person using the SI 128 and they switch to the Tuniq Tower and there is no difference in the temps?
See my point?

But no you start defending AT`s heatsink reviews with out reading and comprehending my post!!
Rubbish of course I read it 1st:roll: ,misunderstood it? maybe ,but when you said ......

by this site and other sites when it comes to evaluating heatsinks....
The words very close mean what exactly?? To be honest they mean nothing when dealing with heat sinks!
Ultra 120 Extreme at the top of the pack...means what exactly....lol

.....which is saying that AT didn't bother with figures what do you expect? you mis-represented it.Btw you attacked his review without anything to back it up with ,hence I questioned you.If it's done something wrong (wouldn't be a 1st) ,then fine say so, & explain what & why.

And yes I know that CPU temp will be different between different systems with the same HSF & CPU speed etc, I would of thought that be obvious ,but overall the HSF 'rankings' if you like will be the same.The best will stay the best & the worst will stay the worst regardless of case etc*.

Actually are you so dense that you cannot read???
I stated -- AT`s review was good but all reviews are a mixed bag at best.

The reason reviews are a mixed bag has nothing to do with the quality or exactness of the review!!
It has to do with the human factor or the variables.....
Something as simple as applying thermal paste...too much too little.....positive verses negative air pressure.....how tight does the person tighten the mounting screws all intagibles.....


So please show me where I trashed AT`s heatsink review??

And yes I know that CPU temp will be different between different systems with the same HSF & CPU speed etc, I would of thought that be obvious ,but overall the HSF 'rankings' if you like will be the same.The best will stay the best & the worst will stay the worst regardless of case etc*.

So you still don`t get it do you......duh.....

 

[Daverino]

Relax, relax.

I did not mention AT's review, or anyone else's. I based my purchase on my good experiences with TR products in the past and I bought it from FrozenCPU because of my good experiences with them in the past as well. My desire in purchasing the Ultima-90 was not to get peltier-like temperatures. I was hoping for a few degrees off the SI-120, because I felt I was upgrading from a really good cooler to a really really good cooler. What I was not expecting was worse temperatures, which is what I've gotten. And I don't think that's unrealistic based on the price of the cooler.

What I am disappointed with is the 'hot-potato' that everyone's playing with the heatsink. FrozenCPU telling me to take it to Thermalright and Thermalright telling me to take it to FrozenCPU. Is the cooler defective? Well the chip is burning a hole to China when I turn the computer on, so it the HS is doing *something*. But like I said above, it's like buying a performance sports car that doesn't perform, only to be told by the dealer that since the car drives there is nothing wrong with it. I posted this as a cautionary tale.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Originally posted by: Daverino
Relax, relax.

I did not mention AT's review, or anyone else's. I based my purchase on my good experiences with TR products in the past and I bought it from FrozenCPU because of my good experiences with them in the past as well. My desire in purchasing the Ultima-90 was not to get peltier-like temperatures. I was hoping for a few degrees off the SI-120, because I felt I was upgrading from a really good cooler to a really really good cooler. What I was not expecting was worse temperatures, which is what I've gotten. And I don't think that's unrealistic based on the price of the cooler.

What I am disappointed with is the 'hot-potato' that everyone's playing with the heatsink. FrozenCPU telling me to take it to Thermalright and Thermalright telling me to take it to FrozenCPU. Is the cooler defective? Well the chip is burning a hole to China when I turn the computer on, so it the HS is doing *something*. But like I said above, it's like buying a performance sports car that doesn't perform, only to be told by the dealer that since the car drives there is nothing wrong with it. I posted this as a cautionary tale.

Your frustration is understandable. By all accounts, the Ultima-90 should be outperforming the SI-120 given your case . . . you still are using the P180 yes?

The only reason why I can think that the SI-120 would be outperforming the Ultima-90, outside of base-flatness and/or mount issues that I already mentioned, is if the Ultima-90 is having trouble breathing in your case. As long as it's blowing towards the exhausts and you're getting sufficient airflow through the case's various vents, you should be fine. Not sure if the SI-120 is pulling air through the vents efficiently enough to let it beat out the Ultima-90 or not. If you have weak exhaust fans this might be the case.

To others debating the effectiveness of the Ultima-90, please keep in mind that the OP's CPU is similar to the CPU used in Anandtech's review. If anything, it's cooler, which should make the performance of numerous heatsinks (such as the Tuniq Tower 120, Ultima-90, and SI-120) similar given the low heat load. There's no particular reason why the Ultima-90 should be doing worse or even substantially worse than the SI-120, and it should have performance close to the Tuniq Tower 120 as well. It's not like he's running a quad (in which case the Tuniq Tower 120's advantage would likely be more pronounced).

The fact that the Ultima-90 is doing as badly as it is is clearly indicative of the fact that the OP suffers from a mounting defect, an HSF defect (likely a curved base), or that the OP's is having exhaust or intake issues of some kind that are not impeding the performance of the SI-120.

 

[Assimilator1]

Daverino

I've just fitted my Ultima 90 & ironically I'm also dissapointed! ,now I didn't really consider my Scythe Katana 2 as a higher end HS so I expected at least moderatly lower temps with the U 90 ,but it was only 1-2C cooler.Maybe it'll only show improvements under higher speeds & vcores? (I'll find out latter this week/next week).
Btw my CPU is a Q6600 @3GHz @1.3v.

I did notice one problem though ,I had a huge difference in temps between 2 cores ,upto 12C!:Q ,where as with my Katana 2 it was about 3-4C at most. (under load running F@H SMP ,measure with Core temp).
Now I had 2 thoughts about this ,1. I screwed up! 2.I noticed that the clamp didn't clamp down very hard (yes the screws were tight) & the HS seemed far too easy to twist!.
Anyway ,I took the HSF off (& saw that 2 opposing corners of the CPU hadn't touched the HS!!),took the springs off the screws & put a washer on each screw ,put it all back together (without re-doing the paste! ,yea I know bad me!).That alone cut the difference down to 7C (still not good but better).I'm going to try putting new paste on now & then afterwards, turning the washers around (their doomed so it'll applie slightly more pressure).
I'll let you know how it goes!.

Oh btw what are your CPU temps under load? (say with Prime95 ,measured running Core temp) what's the difference between coolest & warmest core?

DrMrLordX

Could you give a brief run down of mouting problems that people have been having? (I haven't yet had time to read the thread you linked)

JEDIYoda

Lol ,I think it would be difficult to respond here if I couldn't read! & you still seem to be failing to grasp what your own words meant! , twisting mine along with failing to understand some of what I'm asking!:roll:
I never said you trashed his (whole) review ,I said that you were misleading about the points you were refering to! , if you don't believe me re-read your own earlier post!
You blantly implied that he ranked HSFs using words alone ,now of course anyone who read that review will know otherwise ,but people who have only read your post won't know that.
Get it now?? (if not I don't care I CBA to bang my head against a wall any longer on this point).

And yes I know that reviews between different sites (especially but not exclusively) ,will have different hardware factors(cases ,fans etc) as well as the human factor but when for example AT reviews a bunch of HSFs in the same case ,PSU,fans etc (& I believe a controlled ambient temperature ,correct me if I'm wrong) that about leaves the only variable (excluding non springed screwed HSs) as being the thermal paste application as you pointed out.Even allowing for that it's not likely going to make a huge difference (it's ok to assume that ATs reviewers at least are competent enough to applie HS paste reasonably consisently, right?? or are you saying not?).

Re screwing down HSs ,many use spring loading to actually applie the force to the HS so those types at least would be excluded from effects due to how tight the screw is done up (assuming the thread has bottomed out of course) & the 'rankings' should be near as damn it the same.
To those that don't use spring loaded screws,your dead right ,so yes I concede that that factor could alter the HSFs 'ranking' in temp graphs ,potentially alot.So that's one point you have fairly made.

What you don`t seem to understand is that from system to system you cannot say there is one best heatsink and that applies to all systems.
Excluding what I said directly above ,I still disagree with that statement ,if you cannot at the very least explain your reasons (& preferably have data to back it up) for saying this then it is purely heresay.

On a seperate note I don't particularly want to trade insults & sarcasim with you ,I noticed in my 1st post that I was unnecasarily rude to you ,for that I apologise. (too loyal to AT I guess).I am willing to draw a line under that side of the argument if you are ,if not then I will pretty much ignore you from here on.But if you are willing I would like to see the technical disagreement to some sort of conclusion ,if possible.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Wow-- you still don`t get it do you?? or are you just being dense....

That was my whole point......
At best Heatsink reviews or roundups can only be used as a guide....
Sure sites like Anand`s does a heat sink reviews of say 5 heatsinks.....post the results...
Then another sites reviews a few of those heatsinks and posts the results...yet the results are different...
Then another site reviews some of the same heatsink and the results are different?
Why....
We get back to my original example.....about when the Scythe Ninja came on the market.
It was kicking ass in reviews!!

You could also talk another heatsink that to this day get mixed reviews from different sites the Zalman 9700........nuff said...

I proved my point!!

You see the reviewing sites all did a competewnt job at reviewing the heatsink!

Yet many many people were getting a mixed bag of results and posting on these and other forums. Why?

Because as I stated earlier the variables are never constant from one computer to the next unless you have the exact same set of variables.

Instead of asking me to do your work why don`t you do your own and try to understand that there is NO such thing as the definitve best heat sink for all saituations!!

You can ask for technical statistics all you want. The issue is NOT with the technical statistics. It is with one word call "vaiables" !! The variables are never the same...some are but you still have other viariables to and including things like thermal paste...how much or how little was used.....how tight was the heatsink screwed on.....do you have 6 fans verses 10 fans...are you pushing or pulling the air over or through the heatsink...etc..etc..etc

Peace!!

 

[aigomorla]

@ Assimulator1

what about my comment about needed a larger heat load on that sink to show its true performance?

otherwise it will probably compare with other sinks because theres just not enough heat for the heat pipes to work at better efficiency.



So you agree with me im guessing seeing how your results are also crap.

Its a crap sink for small heat loads. Once you drop a quadcore on it tho, you'll see a difference however.