Hearts and Minds

fallout man

Golden Member
Nov 20, 2007
1,787
1
0
TERRIST JUSTICES!!!!111!!!OMG

Footage from a video camera handed out by an Israeli human rights group appears to show Jewish settlers beating up Palestinians in the West Bank.

An elderly shepherd, his wife and a nephew said they were attacked by four masked men for allowing their animals to graze near the settlement of Susia.

The rights group, B'Tselem, said the cameras were provided to enable Palestinians to get proof of attacks.

A spokesman for the Israeli police said that an investigation was under way.

So far, no-one has been arrested.

Baseball bats

For the past year, B'Tselem has handed out video cameras to Palestinians as part of its "Shooting Back" project.

The Palestinians said they were attacked after refusing to move


The BBC has been given exclusive access to the footage of this particular attack, which happened earlier this week. The date and time on the camera footage shows that it is Sunday afternoon.

Over the brow of the hill walk four masked men holding baseball bats. To the right of the screen, in the foreground, stands a 58-year-old Palestinian woman.

Thamam al-Nawaja has been herding her goats close to the Jewish settlement of Susia, near Hebron in the southern West Bank.

Within a few seconds, she, along with her 70-year-old husband and one of her nephews, will be beaten up.

As the first blows land, the woman filming - the daughter-in-law of the elderly couple - drops the camera and runs for help.

'Ten-minute warning'

Mrs Nawaja spent three days in hospital after the attack.

Returning to the small Palestinian encampment close to the red-roofed houses of Susia, she stepped slowly and unsteadily out of the minibus.

They don't want us to stay on our land, but we won't leave - we'll die here
Thamam al-Nawaja


A dark stain showed through the white gauze covering her broken right arm. Her veil was lifted gingerly away from her lined face. A bloodshot eye and intersection of scars revealed a fractured left cheek.

"The settlers gave us a 10-minute warning to clear off from the land," she told me, her voice a tired, cracked whisper.

She and her husband had stood their ground. It is at this point that her voice grows louder.

"They don't want us to stay on our land. But we won't leave. We'll die here. It's ours," she added.

Indeed, the rest of the world regards Jewish settlements in the West Bank such as Susia, as illegal, built on occupied territory.

Those settlements have been a large part of the conflict between Palestinians and Israelis for the last 41 years. The daily confrontation is not often caught on camera. That, now, is beginning to change.

Video proof

The attack near Susia was filmed with one of 100 video cameras that B'Tselem has handed out to Palestinians in the region.
When they have the camera, they have proof that something happened - they now have something they can work with, to use as a weapon
Oren Yakobovich
B'Tselem


The thinking behind the project is that when trouble flares, rather than just giving a statement to the Israeli police or army, video carries much more weight.

"The difference is amazing," says Oren Yakobovich, who leads the Shooting Back project.

"When they have the camera, they have proof that something happened. They now have something they can work with, to use as a weapon."

We asked a spokesman from the Susia settlement for a comment on Sunday's incident. He declined.

Inside one of the tents belonging to the Palestinians living near Susia, we watched the footage of the aftermath of the attack - the victims slumped by the roadside, bloodied, waiting for an ambulance.

The bright, wide eyes of the children shone with the light of the small television screen.

Violence against Jews as well as Palestinians has long scarred this place. Video may now may be giving us a new and raw view.

But for most people here, the only answer - a political deal - remains out of sight.

Those horrible muslims are all terrorist sympathizers. See, they didn't even run or recoil when a bunch of Jews wearing TERRIST SCARVES came up to them. Clearly, they are all in cahoots with them there TERRISTS!!1!
 

RichardE

Banned
Dec 31, 2005
10,246
2
0
If you think Palestine/Israel is over religion you are in way over your head. Religion might be the reason for there resolve at times, but is it not the reason both fight. The boarders are the worst because both sides have seen loved ones die at the hands of the other. Things like that stay with you a long time and you hold a grudge towards the Jews, or the Arabs. Even if the killing stopped tomorrow it would take two generations before the racial discrimination died down to a tolerable level.
 

Aimster

Lifer
Jan 5, 2003
16,129
2
0
Jews hate Arabs. Arabs are constantly beat up in Israel and sometimes killed simply for being Arab.
Now imagine those same people being forced to be part of the armed services and put in areas where Arabs live. That is why there are a lot of reports of innocents dying by the hands of Israelis.

now stop and think about this

How many Jews live in the Arab world? Zero. If Jews lived in the Arab nations they would have been slaughtered long ago. Maybe they lived there long ago, but things are different. There is an Israel today.

So although the Israelis might appear like cruel people when it comes to the Arabs, make no mistakes that the Arabs would do the same thing right back at them.
 

fallout man

Golden Member
Nov 20, 2007
1,787
1
0
Originally posted by: RichardE
If you think Palestine/Israel is over religion you are in way over your head. Religion might be the reason for there resolve at times, but is it not the reason both fight. The boarders are the worst because both sides have seen loved ones die at the hands of the other. Things like that stay with you a long time and you hold a grudge towards the Jews, or the Arabs. Even if the killing stopped tomorrow it would take two generations before the racial discrimination died down to a tolerable level.

Your post is missing a viable excuse for beating-up the elderly with a baseball bat.
 

fallout man

Golden Member
Nov 20, 2007
1,787
1
0
Originally posted by: Aimster
Jews hate Arabs. Arabs are constantly beat up in Israel and sometimes killed simply for being Arab.
Now imagine those same people being forced to be part of the armed services and put in areas where Arabs live. That is why there are a lot of reports of innocents dying by the hands of Israelis.

now stop and think about this

How many Jews live in the Arab world? Zero. If Jews lived in the Arab nations they would have been slaughtered long ago. Maybe they lived there long ago, but things are different. There is an Israel today.

So although the Israelis might appear like cruel people when it comes to the Arabs, make no mistakes that the Arabs would do the same thing right back at them.

There are solid Jewish populations in many [Arab] Middle Eastern countries. One of the biggest and most thriving actually resides in Iran.
 

Aimster

Lifer
Jan 5, 2003
16,129
2
0
Originally posted by: fallout man
Originally posted by: Aimster
Jews hate Arabs. Arabs are constantly beat up in Israel and sometimes killed simply for being Arab.
Now imagine those same people being forced to be part of the armed services and put in areas where Arabs live. That is why there are a lot of reports of innocents dying by the hands of Israelis.

now stop and think about this

How many Jews live in the Arab world? Zero. If Jews lived in the Arab nations they would have been slaughtered long ago. Maybe they lived there long ago, but things are different. There is an Israel today.

So although the Israelis might appear like cruel people when it comes to the Arabs, make no mistakes that the Arabs would do the same thing right back at them.

There are solid Jewish populations in many Arab countries. One of the biggest and most thriving actually resides in Iran.

Iran is not Arab. Iran is for the most part Persian and the rest are other sects, but mainly everyone goes by Persian.

The Arabs tried to invade Iran and slaughter all the Persian just like they tried to slaughter all the Jews. Persians do not like Arabs very much either for this very reason.
 

fallout man

Golden Member
Nov 20, 2007
1,787
1
0
Originally posted by: Aimster
Originally posted by: fallout man
Originally posted by: Aimster
Jews hate Arabs. Arabs are constantly beat up in Israel and sometimes killed simply for being Arab.
Now imagine those same people being forced to be part of the armed services and put in areas where Arabs live. That is why there are a lot of reports of innocents dying by the hands of Israelis.

now stop and think about this

How many Jews live in the Arab world? Zero. If Jews lived in the Arab nations they would have been slaughtered long ago. Maybe they lived there long ago, but things are different. There is an Israel today.

So although the Israelis might appear like cruel people when it comes to the Arabs, make no mistakes that the Arabs would do the same thing right back at them.

There are solid Jewish populations in many Arab countries. One of the biggest and most thriving actually resides in Iran.

Iran is not Arab. Iran is for the most part Persian and the rest are other sects, but mainly everyone goes by Persian.

The Arabs tried to invade Iran and slaughter all the Persian just like they tried to slaughter all the Jews. Persians do not like Arabs very much either for this very reason.

Aimster, you are making it very difficult for me to appeal to the common man.
 

RichardE

Banned
Dec 31, 2005
10,246
2
0
Originally posted by: fallout man
Originally posted by: RichardE
If you think Palestine/Israel is over religion you are in way over your head. Religion might be the reason for there resolve at times, but is it not the reason both fight. The boarders are the worst because both sides have seen loved ones die at the hands of the other. Things like that stay with you a long time and you hold a grudge towards the Jews, or the Arabs. Even if the killing stopped tomorrow it would take two generations before the racial discrimination died down to a tolerable level.

Your post is missing a viable excuse for beating-up the elderly with a baseball bat.

There isn't one. Nor is there one for launching rockets into civilian areas, or for Arabs to beat Jews. I never justified the violence at all. If you could take off your "zomg Israel is evillllll" glasses you would get the point of my post. As it stands it went right over your head.
 

RichardE

Banned
Dec 31, 2005
10,246
2
0
Originally posted by: Aimster
Jews hate Arabs. Arabs are constantly beat up in Israel and sometimes killed simply for being Arab.
Now imagine those same people being forced to be part of the armed services and put in areas where Arabs live. That is why there are a lot of reports of innocents dying by the hands of Israelis.

now stop and think about this

How many Jews live in the Arab world? Zero. If Jews lived in the Arab nations they would have been slaughtered long ago. Maybe they lived there long ago, but things are different. There is an Israel today.

So although the Israelis might appear like cruel people when it comes to the Arabs, make no mistakes that the Arabs would do the same thing right back at them.

For someone who seems intelligent on the issues affecting people on Israel and the Middle East in general you pretty much just won the "idiot" post of the day. I find it laughable how in one thread you can say that "not every Iran hates Jews and wants to kill them all!" and in another say " All Jews hate Arabs!". There are also many Jews in many of the Arab countries, and many Arabs who live in the middle of Israel. Your view of the situation seems to be one of "Jews hate Arabs, and Arabs hate Jews, the only way for peace is for one to kill the other outright".
 

fallout man

Golden Member
Nov 20, 2007
1,787
1
0
Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: fallout man
Originally posted by: RichardE
If you think Palestine/Israel is over religion you are in way over your head. Religion might be the reason for there resolve at times, but is it not the reason both fight. The boarders are the worst because both sides have seen loved ones die at the hands of the other. Things like that stay with you a long time and you hold a grudge towards the Jews, or the Arabs. Even if the killing stopped tomorrow it would take two generations before the racial discrimination died down to a tolerable level.

Your post is missing a viable excuse for beating-up the elderly with a baseball bat.

There isn't one. Nor is there one for launching rockets into civilian areas, or for Arabs to beat Jews. I never justified the violence at all. If you could take off your "zomg Israel is evillllll" glasses you would get the point of my post. As it stands it went right over your head.

The elderly shepherd couple who got beat up with bats were launching goat-turd rockets? I must be missing something.
 

RichardE

Banned
Dec 31, 2005
10,246
2
0
Originally posted by: fallout man
Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: fallout man
Originally posted by: RichardE
If you think Palestine/Israel is over religion you are in way over your head. Religion might be the reason for there resolve at times, but is it not the reason both fight. The boarders are the worst because both sides have seen loved ones die at the hands of the other. Things like that stay with you a long time and you hold a grudge towards the Jews, or the Arabs. Even if the killing stopped tomorrow it would take two generations before the racial discrimination died down to a tolerable level.

Your post is missing a viable excuse for beating-up the elderly with a baseball bat.

There isn't one. Nor is there one for launching rockets into civilian areas, or for Arabs to beat Jews. I never justified the violence at all. If you could take off your "zomg Israel is evillllll" glasses you would get the point of my post. As it stands it went right over your head.

The elderly shepherd couple who got beat up with bats were launching goat-turd rockets? I must be missing something.

Did I say that? Really? Did I? Or are you honestly that ignorant? Go ahead, show me how you came to that conclusion because this level of reaching is at such a mind boggling level of stupidity that I missed it completely.
 

BeauJangles

Lifer
Aug 26, 2001
13,941
1
0
Originally posted by: Aimster
Jews hate Arabs. Arabs are constantly beat up in Israel and sometimes killed simply for being Arab.
Now imagine those same people being forced to be part of the armed services and put in areas where Arabs live. That is why there are a lot of reports of innocents dying by the hands of Israelis.

now stop and think about this

How many Jews live in the Arab world? Zero. If Jews lived in the Arab nations they would have been slaughtered long ago. Maybe they lived there long ago, but things are different. There is an Israel today.

So although the Israelis might appear like cruel people when it comes to the Arabs, make no mistakes that the Arabs would do the same thing right back at them.

You've never been to Israel, have you?
 

Aimster

Lifer
Jan 5, 2003
16,129
2
0
Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: Aimster
Jews hate Arabs. Arabs are constantly beat up in Israel and sometimes killed simply for being Arab.
Now imagine those same people being forced to be part of the armed services and put in areas where Arabs live. That is why there are a lot of reports of innocents dying by the hands of Israelis.

now stop and think about this

How many Jews live in the Arab world? Zero. If Jews lived in the Arab nations they would have been slaughtered long ago. Maybe they lived there long ago, but things are different. There is an Israel today.

So although the Israelis might appear like cruel people when it comes to the Arabs, make no mistakes that the Arabs would do the same thing right back at them.

For someone who seems intelligent on the issues affecting people on Israel and the Middle East in general you pretty much just won the "idiot" post of the day. I find it laughable how in one thread you can say that "not every Iran hates Jews and wants to kill them all!" and in another say " All Jews hate Arabs!". There are also many Jews in many of the Arab countries, and many Arabs who live in the middle of Israel. Your view of the situation seems to be one of "Jews hate Arabs, and Arabs hate Jews, the only way for peace is for one to kill the other outright".

Iran is not Arab.
Iranians are not even close to being Arab
Israelis are more Arab than Persians.
There is absolutely nothing that should cause tension between Persians and the Jews.

& Yes Jews hate Arabs. The majority of their people view Arabs as animals and not human. Sure a small percent of them might not be racist but the majority of them are.
Welcome to the real world.

Show me one Israeli/Jew on this forum that has ever said anything positive about an Arab. Show me one Arab who has defended Israel. You will not find one at all. There is obviously a strong hate.

If someone wishes for your death and fires rockets into your country you will hate them too. Especially after you grow up watching shops and buses being blown to pieces with body parts all around the place. When the Japanese attacked the U.S the people of the U.S hated the Japanese.

When the Arabs invaded Iran the Persians hated the Arabs.

That is how the world works.
 

fallout man

Golden Member
Nov 20, 2007
1,787
1
0
Originally posted by: RichardE

Did I say that? Really? Did I? Or are you honestly that ignorant? Go ahead, show me how you came to that conclusion because this level of reaching is at such a mind boggling level of stupidity that I missed it completely.

I completely understand that there's a lot of ethnic heat between the groups in the area. I grew up in a place that had similar, yet less contemporarily violent strife.

Regardless of what your nationalist convictions are, you don't just go ahead and take your aggression out on a damn elderly couple herding their shitting sheep or what-not.

There is a huge separation between the common Palestinian, and rocket-launching "TERRISTS."

Of course, if you are of a certain zombie persuasion, it doesn't matter if someone is not affiliated with Hamas. They just have to be on the other side of the ghetto.
 

RichardE

Banned
Dec 31, 2005
10,246
2
0
Originally posted by: Aimster
Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: Aimster
Jews hate Arabs. Arabs are constantly beat up in Israel and sometimes killed simply for being Arab.
Now imagine those same people being forced to be part of the armed services and put in areas where Arabs live. That is why there are a lot of reports of innocents dying by the hands of Israelis.

now stop and think about this

How many Jews live in the Arab world? Zero. If Jews lived in the Arab nations they would have been slaughtered long ago. Maybe they lived there long ago, but things are different. There is an Israel today.

So although the Israelis might appear like cruel people when it comes to the Arabs, make no mistakes that the Arabs would do the same thing right back at them.

For someone who seems intelligent on the issues affecting people on Israel and the Middle East in general you pretty much just won the "idiot" post of the day. I find it laughable how in one thread you can say that "not every Iran hates Jews and wants to kill them all!" and in another say " All Jews hate Arabs!". There are also many Jews in many of the Arab countries, and many Arabs who live in the middle of Israel. Your view of the situation seems to be one of "Jews hate Arabs, and Arabs hate Jews, the only way for peace is for one to kill the other outright".

Iran is not Arab.
Iranians are not even close to being Arab
Israelis are more Arab than Persians.
There is absolutely nothing that should cause tension between Persians and the Jews.

& Yes Jews hate Arabs. The majority of their people view Arabs as animals and not human. Sure a small percent of them might not be racist but the majority of them are.
Welcome to the real world.

Show me one Israeli/Jew on this forum that has ever said anything positive about an Arab. Show me one Arab who has defended Israel. You will not find one at all. There is obviously a strong hate.

If someone wishes for your death and fires rockets into your country you will hate them too. Especially after you grow up watching shops and buses being blown to pieces with body parts all around the place. When the Japanese attacked the U.S the people of the U.S hated the Japanese.

When the Arabs invaded Iran the Persians hated the Arabs.

That is how the world works.

:laugh: wow, seriously. Can you play the victim card anymore? Jesus, I thought this sort of "everyone hates me" went out of favor after Grade 8 maybe. Seriously, I doubt you have ever been to Israel, ever. I seriously doubt more that you have ever actually talked to anyone who has lived there (besides through these forums). There is huge movements right now to redefine Israel from a Jewish state to a "democracy for Jews and Arabs" There is massive Arab movements. Wow I am flabbergasted you have some primitive outlook on the entire situation reminiscent of perhaps the 1950's and not the year almost 2010. I am absolutely stunned at your lack of understand of even simplistic social issues than run amok in Israel. Have you ever heard of "The future Vision of the Palestinian Arabs in Israel" paper that started a massive debate? Yes, alot of the old party leaders still cling to a "pure Jewish state" but even they have recognized that Jews and Arabs can co-exist for the most part with relative ease. Man, I cannot believe the ignorance you portrayed here on the actual politics of Israel and Palestine and not the CNN fed "heres Israel/Palestine war".
 

RichardE

Banned
Dec 31, 2005
10,246
2
0
Originally posted by: fallout man
Originally posted by: RichardE

Did I say that? Really? Did I? Or are you honestly that ignorant? Go ahead, show me how you came to that conclusion because this level of reaching is at such a mind boggling level of stupidity that I missed it completely.

I completely understand that there's a lot of ethnic heat between the groups in the area. I grew up in a place that had similar, yet less contemporarily violent strife.

Regardless of what your nationalist convictions are, you don't just go ahead and take your aggression out on a damn elderly couple herding their shitting sheep or what-not.

There is a huge separation between the common Palestinian, and rocket-launching "TERRISTS."

Of course, if you are of a certain zombie persuasion, it doesn't matter if someone is not affiliated with Hamas. They just have to be on the other side of the ghetto.

No, I agree, but understand the type of people each side is dealing with. Trigger happy young IDF soldiers who are probably more scared of the Arabs than the Arabs are scared of them, Arabs who use woman and elderly woman to carry bombs to markets. The war isn't pretty. I'm not giving justification to either side, especially in a disgusting attack like this. As well, I do agree there is a massive MASSIVE difference between the Average Palestinian who wants nothing but the same thing we want out of life and the people who want to take this away. Tragically, the actions of a few affect the many on both sides of the line. I would like for nothing better than to have free travel between Israel/Palestine and the trade that comes with it, it would be wonderful, but while there is still a good chunk of people who want power through the blood of innocents it will not happen. Hopefully as Israel changes from within away from the influences of the old, we can change the way we deal with Palestine as well.
 

Aimster

Lifer
Jan 5, 2003
16,129
2
0
Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: Aimster
Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: Aimster
Jews hate Arabs. Arabs are constantly beat up in Israel and sometimes killed simply for being Arab.
Now imagine those same people being forced to be part of the armed services and put in areas where Arabs live. That is why there are a lot of reports of innocents dying by the hands of Israelis.

now stop and think about this

How many Jews live in the Arab world? Zero. If Jews lived in the Arab nations they would have been slaughtered long ago. Maybe they lived there long ago, but things are different. There is an Israel today.

So although the Israelis might appear like cruel people when it comes to the Arabs, make no mistakes that the Arabs would do the same thing right back at them.

For someone who seems intelligent on the issues affecting people on Israel and the Middle East in general you pretty much just won the "idiot" post of the day. I find it laughable how in one thread you can say that "not every Iran hates Jews and wants to kill them all!" and in another say " All Jews hate Arabs!". There are also many Jews in many of the Arab countries, and many Arabs who live in the middle of Israel. Your view of the situation seems to be one of "Jews hate Arabs, and Arabs hate Jews, the only way for peace is for one to kill the other outright".

Iran is not Arab.
Iranians are not even close to being Arab
Israelis are more Arab than Persians.
There is absolutely nothing that should cause tension between Persians and the Jews.

& Yes Jews hate Arabs. The majority of their people view Arabs as animals and not human. Sure a small percent of them might not be racist but the majority of them are.
Welcome to the real world.

Show me one Israeli/Jew on this forum that has ever said anything positive about an Arab. Show me one Arab who has defended Israel. You will not find one at all. There is obviously a strong hate.

If someone wishes for your death and fires rockets into your country you will hate them too. Especially after you grow up watching shops and buses being blown to pieces with body parts all around the place. When the Japanese attacked the U.S the people of the U.S hated the Japanese.

When the Arabs invaded Iran the Persians hated the Arabs.

That is how the world works.

:laugh: wow, seriously. Can you play the victim card anymore? Jesus, I thought this sort of "everyone hates me" went out of favor after Grade 8 maybe. Seriously, I doubt you have ever been to Israel, ever. I seriously doubt more that you have ever actually talked to anyone who has lived there (besides through these forums). There is huge movements right now to redefine Israel from a Jewish state to a "democracy for Jews and Arabs" There is massive Arab movements. Wow I am flabbergasted you have some primitive outlook on the entire situation reminiscent of perhaps the 1950's and not the year almost 2010. I am absolutely stunned at your lack of understand of even simplistic social issues than run amok in Israel. Have you ever heard of "The future Vision of the Palestinian Arabs in Israel" paper that started a massive debate? Yes, alot of the old party leaders still cling to a "pure Jewish state" but even they have recognized that Jews and Arabs can co-exist for the most part with relative ease. Man, I cannot believe the ignorance you portrayed here on the actual politics of Israel and Palestine and not the CNN fed "heres Israel/Palestine war".

So I should just ignore all the violence against the Arabs coming out of Israel?
I should ignore the blogs and videos of Israeli soldiers who call the Arabs animals?

Israel doesn't want to have anything to do with Palestine. It is a headache. There is never going to be a peace agreement because Palestine wants Jerusalem.

 

RichardE

Banned
Dec 31, 2005
10,246
2
0
Originally posted by: Aimster
Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: Aimster
Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: Aimster
Jews hate Arabs. Arabs are constantly beat up in Israel and sometimes killed simply for being Arab.
Now imagine those same people being forced to be part of the armed services and put in areas where Arabs live. That is why there are a lot of reports of innocents dying by the hands of Israelis.

now stop and think about this

How many Jews live in the Arab world? Zero. If Jews lived in the Arab nations they would have been slaughtered long ago. Maybe they lived there long ago, but things are different. There is an Israel today.

So although the Israelis might appear like cruel people when it comes to the Arabs, make no mistakes that the Arabs would do the same thing right back at them.

For someone who seems intelligent on the issues affecting people on Israel and the Middle East in general you pretty much just won the "idiot" post of the day. I find it laughable how in one thread you can say that "not every Iran hates Jews and wants to kill them all!" and in another say " All Jews hate Arabs!". There are also many Jews in many of the Arab countries, and many Arabs who live in the middle of Israel. Your view of the situation seems to be one of "Jews hate Arabs, and Arabs hate Jews, the only way for peace is for one to kill the other outright".

Iran is not Arab.
Iranians are not even close to being Arab
Israelis are more Arab than Persians.
There is absolutely nothing that should cause tension between Persians and the Jews.

& Yes Jews hate Arabs. The majority of their people view Arabs as animals and not human. Sure a small percent of them might not be racist but the majority of them are.
Welcome to the real world.

Show me one Israeli/Jew on this forum that has ever said anything positive about an Arab. Show me one Arab who has defended Israel. You will not find one at all. There is obviously a strong hate.

If someone wishes for your death and fires rockets into your country you will hate them too. Especially after you grow up watching shops and buses being blown to pieces with body parts all around the place. When the Japanese attacked the U.S the people of the U.S hated the Japanese.

When the Arabs invaded Iran the Persians hated the Arabs.

That is how the world works.

:laugh: wow, seriously. Can you play the victim card anymore? Jesus, I thought this sort of "everyone hates me" went out of favor after Grade 8 maybe. Seriously, I doubt you have ever been to Israel, ever. I seriously doubt more that you have ever actually talked to anyone who has lived there (besides through these forums). There is huge movements right now to redefine Israel from a Jewish state to a "democracy for Jews and Arabs" There is massive Arab movements. Wow I am flabbergasted you have some primitive outlook on the entire situation reminiscent of perhaps the 1950's and not the year almost 2010. I am absolutely stunned at your lack of understand of even simplistic social issues than run amok in Israel. Have you ever heard of "The future Vision of the Palestinian Arabs in Israel" paper that started a massive debate? Yes, alot of the old party leaders still cling to a "pure Jewish state" but even they have recognized that Jews and Arabs can co-exist for the most part with relative ease. Man, I cannot believe the ignorance you portrayed here on the actual politics of Israel and Palestine and not the CNN fed "heres Israel/Palestine war".

So I should just ignore all the violence against the Arabs coming out of Israel?
I should ignore the blogs and videos of Israeli soldiers who call the Arabs animals?

Israel doesn't want to have anything to do with Palestine. It is a headache. There is never going to be a peace agreement because Palestine wants Jerusalem.

:laugh: wow...just wow....I honestly couldn't believe someone could be as ignorant as you are. It truly is remarkable. Honestly, I mean blogs from people attacking Israel are a much better source of news than any news that actually happens in Israel politics :laugh: You honestly just floored me with your naked hatred of Jews :laugh: Or Israel, though they are the same to you...wow. I better make sure to tell the 20% of Israel citizens who are Arab that all the things they have been fighting for, and gotten and the places of power they have obtained, and all the progress they have made is all for naught, since all Jews want to do is kill them :laugh: Damn Aimster, you are one sad individual.
 

fallout man

Golden Member
Nov 20, 2007
1,787
1
0
Originally posted by: RichardE
Tragically, the actions of a few affect the many on both sides of the line. I would like for nothing better than to have free travel between Israel/Palestine and the trade that comes with it, it would be wonderful, but while there is still a good chunk of people who want power through the blood of innocents it will not happen. Hopefully as Israel changes from within away from the influences of the old, we can change the way we deal with Palestine as well.

I could not agree more with you. It's really the few on both sides who gain from innocent blood spilled amongst Iraelis and Palestinians. Politics are profitable, and there's nothing more profitable than the spectre of death and terror on behalf of "the other" (at least these days).

My reason for posting this thread was only to include a usually undeard perspective in a conversation regarding this sad, sad conflict.

I hope that you recognize how lop-sided the struggle between Palestine and Israel has become. Not that I'm trying to push any buttons, but I hope you do know that the IDF absolutely does not have the best human rights record in the world.

For a land that is acting in "self defense," and justifies its existence by virtue of human rights abuses, one would think that there would be significant hypersensitivity to actions on its behalf that may constitute... human rights abuses?
 

Aimster

Lifer
Jan 5, 2003
16,129
2
0
Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: Aimster
Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: Aimster
Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: Aimster
Jews hate Arabs. Arabs are constantly beat up in Israel and sometimes killed simply for being Arab.
Now imagine those same people being forced to be part of the armed services and put in areas where Arabs live. That is why there are a lot of reports of innocents dying by the hands of Israelis.

now stop and think about this

How many Jews live in the Arab world? Zero. If Jews lived in the Arab nations they would have been slaughtered long ago. Maybe they lived there long ago, but things are different. There is an Israel today.

So although the Israelis might appear like cruel people when it comes to the Arabs, make no mistakes that the Arabs would do the same thing right back at them.

For someone who seems intelligent on the issues affecting people on Israel and the Middle East in general you pretty much just won the "idiot" post of the day. I find it laughable how in one thread you can say that "not every Iran hates Jews and wants to kill them all!" and in another say " All Jews hate Arabs!". There are also many Jews in many of the Arab countries, and many Arabs who live in the middle of Israel. Your view of the situation seems to be one of "Jews hate Arabs, and Arabs hate Jews, the only way for peace is for one to kill the other outright".

Iran is not Arab.
Iranians are not even close to being Arab
Israelis are more Arab than Persians.
There is absolutely nothing that should cause tension between Persians and the Jews.

& Yes Jews hate Arabs. The majority of their people view Arabs as animals and not human. Sure a small percent of them might not be racist but the majority of them are.
Welcome to the real world.

Show me one Israeli/Jew on this forum that has ever said anything positive about an Arab. Show me one Arab who has defended Israel. You will not find one at all. There is obviously a strong hate.

If someone wishes for your death and fires rockets into your country you will hate them too. Especially after you grow up watching shops and buses being blown to pieces with body parts all around the place. When the Japanese attacked the U.S the people of the U.S hated the Japanese.

When the Arabs invaded Iran the Persians hated the Arabs.

That is how the world works.

:laugh: wow, seriously. Can you play the victim card anymore? Jesus, I thought this sort of "everyone hates me" went out of favor after Grade 8 maybe. Seriously, I doubt you have ever been to Israel, ever. I seriously doubt more that you have ever actually talked to anyone who has lived there (besides through these forums). There is huge movements right now to redefine Israel from a Jewish state to a "democracy for Jews and Arabs" There is massive Arab movements. Wow I am flabbergasted you have some primitive outlook on the entire situation reminiscent of perhaps the 1950's and not the year almost 2010. I am absolutely stunned at your lack of understand of even simplistic social issues than run amok in Israel. Have you ever heard of "The future Vision of the Palestinian Arabs in Israel" paper that started a massive debate? Yes, alot of the old party leaders still cling to a "pure Jewish state" but even they have recognized that Jews and Arabs can co-exist for the most part with relative ease. Man, I cannot believe the ignorance you portrayed here on the actual politics of Israel and Palestine and not the CNN fed "heres Israel/Palestine war".

So I should just ignore all the violence against the Arabs coming out of Israel?
I should ignore the blogs and videos of Israeli soldiers who call the Arabs animals?

Israel doesn't want to have anything to do with Palestine. It is a headache. There is never going to be a peace agreement because Palestine wants Jerusalem.

:laugh: wow...just wow....I honestly couldn't believe someone could be as ignorant as you are. It truly is remarkable. Honestly, I mean blogs from people attacking Israel are a much better source of news than any news that actually happens in Israel politics :laugh: You honestly just floored me with your naked hatred of Jews :laugh: Or Israel, though they are the same to you...wow. I better make sure to tell the 20% of Israel citizens who are Arab that all the things they have been fighting for, and gotten and the places of power they have obtained, and all the progress they have made is all for naught, since all Jews want to do is kill them :laugh: Damn Aimster, you are one sad individual.

Blogs of soldiers in the battlefield calling the people they are fighting animals is pretty serious. BBC and AP reporting that Arabs are constant victims of fear inside Israel is a legitimate source.

You obviously missed where I said Arabs hate the Jews too but you decided to ignore that fact. Skip it and go straight to the Jews only. Who cares what I said about the Arabs. Let's just focus on Jews.

Just because they walk together and work together doesn't mean they do not think negative things about each other. You will have a hell of a hard time telling a Jew from an Arab.

naked hatred of Jews? I am Jewish.
 

RichardE

Banned
Dec 31, 2005
10,246
2
0
Originally posted by: fallout man
Originally posted by: RichardE
Tragically, the actions of a few affect the many on both sides of the line. I would like for nothing better than to have free travel between Israel/Palestine and the trade that comes with it, it would be wonderful, but while there is still a good chunk of people who want power through the blood of innocents it will not happen. Hopefully as Israel changes from within away from the influences of the old, we can change the way we deal with Palestine as well.

I could not agree more with you. It's really the few on both sides who gain from innocent blood spilled amongst Iraelis and Palestinians. Politics are profitable, and there's nothing more profitable than the spectre of death and terror on behalf of "the other" (at least these days).

My reason for posting this thread was only to include a usually undeard perspective in a conversation regarding this sad, sad conflict.

I hope that you recognize how lop-sided the struggle between Palestine and Israel has become. Not that I'm trying to push any buttons, but I hope you do know that the IDF absolutely does not have the best human rights record in the world.

For a land that is acting in "self defense," and justifies its existence by virtue of human rights abuses, one would think that there would be significant hypersensitivity to actions on its behalf that may constitute... human rights abuses?

Not necessarily. You have to remember until "very very" recently (Ie the finishing of the building of the wall) every Palestinian was a target since everyone could be carrying suicide vests. Since the suicide bomber idea died off many human rights abuses have dropped. As I said I'm not justifying there actions, but giving some reason as to why. The land is still acting very much in a self defense state as far as borders go. As of right now no Arab army, or Palestinian army could destroy Israel, not even combined. This is only possible though due to the strong presence of the IDF on the borders. Attacks on IDF soldiers still happen daily, IDF soldiers have to be slow to respond (IE turn the other cheek) most of the time due to the bad press, if they pursued there attackers they would be "IDF soldiers once again attacked Palestine" type things. I know many people see the IDF as nothing but bloodthirsty soldiers who want to kill Arabs, but it is the same false image that all armies face that seem to be oppressing. (America is seen as a nation of rednecks who want to kill all the Muslims on there crusade, the marines are seen as this anyway, Russia was seen in a bad light and still is even though they fought for the same thing as the US did until the end of WW2). The problem, is what we view through our lens of the middle east, filtered to us through CNN, Fox, political blogs is the same sort of thing that Arabs view the US through the Arab media. (I can explain this more in depth but I hope you understand the comparisons). As much as fools such as Aimster think that every jew is born with a pre-determined idea that he wants to kill Arabs discrimination will be hard to suppress, peace though seems more reasonable as I said once the ideas of the old on both sides are pushed out. The good thing about war is it usually eventually kills the majority of those who want it, leaving the people who want peace able to overpower.
 

dahunan

Lifer
Jan 10, 2002
18,191
3
0
Why does the USA owe Israel anything (or at least 3x more than all the others in the area)?
 

RichardE

Banned
Dec 31, 2005
10,246
2
0
Originally posted by: Aimster
Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: Aimster
Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: Aimster
Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: Aimster
Jews hate Arabs. Arabs are constantly beat up in Israel and sometimes killed simply for being Arab.
Now imagine those same people being forced to be part of the armed services and put in areas where Arabs live. That is why there are a lot of reports of innocents dying by the hands of Israelis.

now stop and think about this

How many Jews live in the Arab world? Zero. If Jews lived in the Arab nations they would have been slaughtered long ago. Maybe they lived there long ago, but things are different. There is an Israel today.

So although the Israelis might appear like cruel people when it comes to the Arabs, make no mistakes that the Arabs would do the same thing right back at them.

For someone who seems intelligent on the issues affecting people on Israel and the Middle East in general you pretty much just won the "idiot" post of the day. I find it laughable how in one thread you can say that "not every Iran hates Jews and wants to kill them all!" and in another say " All Jews hate Arabs!". There are also many Jews in many of the Arab countries, and many Arabs who live in the middle of Israel. Your view of the situation seems to be one of "Jews hate Arabs, and Arabs hate Jews, the only way for peace is for one to kill the other outright".

Iran is not Arab.
Iranians are not even close to being Arab
Israelis are more Arab than Persians.
There is absolutely nothing that should cause tension between Persians and the Jews.

& Yes Jews hate Arabs. The majority of their people view Arabs as animals and not human. Sure a small percent of them might not be racist but the majority of them are.
Welcome to the real world.

Show me one Israeli/Jew on this forum that has ever said anything positive about an Arab. Show me one Arab who has defended Israel. You will not find one at all. There is obviously a strong hate.

If someone wishes for your death and fires rockets into your country you will hate them too. Especially after you grow up watching shops and buses being blown to pieces with body parts all around the place. When the Japanese attacked the U.S the people of the U.S hated the Japanese.

When the Arabs invaded Iran the Persians hated the Arabs.

That is how the world works.

:laugh: wow, seriously. Can you play the victim card anymore? Jesus, I thought this sort of "everyone hates me" went out of favor after Grade 8 maybe. Seriously, I doubt you have ever been to Israel, ever. I seriously doubt more that you have ever actually talked to anyone who has lived there (besides through these forums). There is huge movements right now to redefine Israel from a Jewish state to a "democracy for Jews and Arabs" There is massive Arab movements. Wow I am flabbergasted you have some primitive outlook on the entire situation reminiscent of perhaps the 1950's and not the year almost 2010. I am absolutely stunned at your lack of understand of even simplistic social issues than run amok in Israel. Have you ever heard of "The future Vision of the Palestinian Arabs in Israel" paper that started a massive debate? Yes, alot of the old party leaders still cling to a "pure Jewish state" but even they have recognized that Jews and Arabs can co-exist for the most part with relative ease. Man, I cannot believe the ignorance you portrayed here on the actual politics of Israel and Palestine and not the CNN fed "heres Israel/Palestine war".

So I should just ignore all the violence against the Arabs coming out of Israel?
I should ignore the blogs and videos of Israeli soldiers who call the Arabs animals?

Israel doesn't want to have anything to do with Palestine. It is a headache. There is never going to be a peace agreement because Palestine wants Jerusalem.

:laugh: wow...just wow....I honestly couldn't believe someone could be as ignorant as you are. It truly is remarkable. Honestly, I mean blogs from people attacking Israel are a much better source of news than any news that actually happens in Israel politics :laugh: You honestly just floored me with your naked hatred of Jews :laugh: Or Israel, though they are the same to you...wow. I better make sure to tell the 20% of Israel citizens who are Arab that all the things they have been fighting for, and gotten and the places of power they have obtained, and all the progress they have made is all for naught, since all Jews want to do is kill them :laugh: Damn Aimster, you are one sad individual.

Blogs of soldiers in the battlefield calling the people they are fighting animals is pretty serious. BBC and AP reporting that Arabs are constant victims of fear inside Israel is a legitimate source.

You obviously missed where I said Arabs hate the Jews too but you decided to ignore that fact. Skip it and go straight to the Jews only. Who cares what I said about the Arabs. Let's just focus on Jews.

Just because they walk together and work together doesn't mean they do not think negative things about each other. You will have a hell of a hard time telling a Jew from an Arab.

naked hatred of Jews? I am Jewish.

Really? wow, you need to get some more info from Israel than because you have to be the most ignorant Jewish person I've ever met in regards to Israel :laugh: You know there are people like you who still think that same way about white and black people in the states, that there is always this underlying racism that just barely keeps us from ripping each others throats out. Luckily most people have recognized this as nothing but an unnatural fear mongering. So Aimster, since you are Jewish, I suppose you *hate* arabs? Since all Jews hate Arabs..

Also, you think that armies calling other armies derogatory names means they hate them? :laugh: I guess every American hates anyone from Vietnam right? I am still just floored at the ignorance you are showing, it truly is amazing.
 

fallout man

Golden Member
Nov 20, 2007
1,787
1
0
Originally posted by: RichardE
The good thing about war is it usually eventually kills the majority of those who want it, leaving the people who want peace able to overpower.

Cheers.

--
FM
 

RichardE

Banned
Dec 31, 2005
10,246
2
0
Originally posted by: dahunan
Why does the USA owe Israel anything (or at least 3x more than all the others in the area)?

Hey Dahunan, try to stay on topic. I know thats hard for you in an Israel thread, trust me, I empathize, but I'm sure you can. If you want a more in depth convo though on this topic, why not make your own post? Or how about you actually try to contribute something to the idea of the OP rather than just go into another "zomg we need to only look out for ourselves!!!" rant?