Hearthstone

[darkewaffle]

Well, you complete your quests and obtain wins at the same time - it's not tallied separately. Not to mention there's about a dozen different mini-achievements you'll get bonus gold from when starting the game and some quests can be worth 60-100 gold (with admittedly more stringent requirements). Gold isn't really in short supply unless you're trying to get a ton of it immediately. Some days I can do arena, some days I can't. So what?

And if you want to get through games faster, play a rush deck. Rush hunter in particular has very quick games and can be played without many rares or above - though some commons are very helpful and two Eaglehorn Bows will probably be necessary.

If someone wants to pay, they'll get to where they want to be faster, but it doesn't actually raise their ceiling.

 

[lupi]

Mage is also about the easiest class to play and one of the best for defeating rush decks, so getting it to the mid ranks even using basic cards not the difficult.

 

[Spidre]

The way to get decks and gold is arena, plain and simple.

In arena, there is no pay to win. Whoever is better at making a deck and using it has the advantage (obvious card draw and drafting luck are a factor).

With the new system, going 3-3 in arena is roughly breaking even (you will average 50g+ a pack, which value wise is like buying a pack for 100g). Anything above 3 wins will get you more value then straight up buying a pack. Once you get to 6 wins, you will start to get your money back, while receiving free packs.

Ever since open beta started, I've been averaging around 7 wins per arena. Even with terrible decks I will get at least 5 wins, and including quests, I am actually gaining gold by doing arenas non-stop.

The best thing you can do as a beginner is watch videos or read guides made by pros on drafting arena decks. Once you know how to make a great arena deck, you can work on your game knowledge and improve your arena returns. There is a lot more to drafting then just picking whatever cards are 'the best'.

People say constructed is P2W, and paying money certainly helps, but there are plenty of decks you can get that are cheap and effective. The hunter rush being a primary example.

 

[Fallen Kell]

Naturalize is an awful card imo. giving two cards to the opponent to destroy a minion for 1 mana is a massive cost.

I agree. This card should really be 4 mana at a minimum.

 

[Chiropteran]

Sorry but this game is straight pay 2 win. No questions asked, anyone can put a spin on it and say otherwise but thats exactly what this is. Let us examine.

The player reynad reached the highest constructed rank in 5 days on a free account without paying a dime.

http://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/1wdi7m/reynad_just_reached_legend_without_spending_a/

It's not pay2win in any usual sense. Buying cards gives you more options, and may enable a deck you couldn't build otherwise, but overall the cards are balanced based on mana cost, not purchase cost. Basic and common cards are just as strong as legendary, and you can build a very effective deck for cheap if you are skilled.

 

[lupi]

Not sure if you're just trolling with that replay or not, but most wouldn't play naturalize if it was a 0 mana cost card.

 

[Chiropteran]

Not sure if you're just trolling with that replay or not, but most wouldn't play naturalize if it was a 0 mana cost card.

I think it's obvious he was joking. But naturalize isn't useless, it can be used in a millstone style deck to force your opponent to lose cards or take damage from drawing on an empty library.

 

[Midwayman]

they took out playable interrupts and added the taunt system as they wanted to remove that interactivity to sped up gameplay.

That's what I suspected. You can really drag out a turn hitting the timer after every card play. Still it ends up with a lot less depth.

 

[smackababy]

I think it's obvious he was joking. But naturalize isn't useless, it can be used in a millstone style deck to force your opponent to lose cards or take damage from drawing on an empty library.

Which just isn't a valid strategy in Hearthstone. I've yet to see a burn deck work in any capacity, nor have I heard of one. In MTG it was viable, but certainly not in Hearthstone.

 

[Chiropteran]

Which just isn't a valid strategy in Hearthstone. I've yet to see a burn deck work in any capacity, nor have I heard of one. In MTG it was viable, but certainly not in Hearthstone.

Millstone decks were not viable in MTG when MTG was just released. Only recently has it become a serious option. Note however, even if it's not a serious option, people do play it in hearthstone. A deck being below top tier doesn't make it not-a-deck. It's still playable, just maybe not as good as X flavor of the month deck.

 

[smackababy]

Millstone decks were not viable in MTG when MTG was just released. Only recently has it become a serious option. Note however, even if it's not a serious option, people do play it in hearthstone. A deck being below top tier doesn't make it not-a-deck. It's still playable, just maybe not as good as X flavor of the month deck.

The problem is, even if people play it, the entire foundation of the deck is terrible. In MTG, you lose when you have nothing left to draw. It becomes harder to use cards, as the costs are associated with mana you may not have.

In Hearthstone, you still get turns after you "blank draw". And, as long as you're playing cards, you have a full hand of everything. There is only a limit of 10 mana. If you have 4 2 mana cards, you have play 4. Even if you lose them the next turn, you still get your next drawn card AND have multiple options to play.

 

[Udgnim]

Millstone decks were not viable in MTG when MTG was just released. Only recently has it become a serious option. Note however, even if it's not a serious option, people do play it in hearthstone. A deck being below top tier doesn't make it not-a-deck. It's still playable, just maybe not as good as X flavor of the month deck.

Kripp had some troll mill deck using cards like Lorewalker Cho, Coldlight Oracle, and King Mukla to try to destroy opponent card draws

 

[JTsyo]

The way to get decks and gold is arena, plain and simple.

In arena, there is no pay to win. Whoever is better at making a deck and using it has the advantage (obvious card draw and drafting luck are a factor).

With the new system, going 3-3 in arena is roughly breaking even (you will average 50g+ a pack, which value wise is like buying a pack for 100g). Anything above 3 wins will get you more value then straight up buying a pack. Once you get to 6 wins, you will start to get your money back, while receiving free packs.

Ever since open beta started, I've been averaging around 7 wins per arena. Even with terrible decks I will get at least 5 wins, and including quests, I am actually gaining gold by doing arenas non-stop.

The best thing you can do as a beginner is watch videos or read guides made by pros on drafting arena decks. Once you know how to make a great arena deck, you can work on your game knowledge and improve your arena returns. There is a lot more to drafting then just picking whatever cards are 'the best'.

People say constructed is P2W, and paying money certainly helps, but there are plenty of decks you can get that are cheap and effective. The hunter rush being a primary example.

Any links to a guide on arena draw? Currently I'm 3-9 in arena. 2-6 in ranked and above 50% in casual. I just do casual now since I just want wins for quests.

 

[Ns1]

is deck building super fucking time consuming or what. unless you're just reading shit off the internet and using exactly what someone else built...

 

[Kev]

is deck building super fucking time consuming or what. unless you're just reading shit off the internet and using exactly what someone else built...

Some of it comes from experience. After playing a bunch I start to figure out what cards are useless and remove them. It also doesn't hurt to look up how the best players set theirs up.

One warrior deck I just typed "charge" into the search box and used every card with charge on it. It was pretty funny and got me a few wins.

But yeah it's annoying when you can basically tell that someone is using a carbon copy deck. Especially literally every hunter I play against. They're such cheap garbage.

 

[smackababy]

is deck building super fucking time consuming or what. unless you're just reading shit off the internet and using exactly what someone else built...

It is either a lot of reading up on the value of cards or trial and error. I think a lot of arena play helps, but that is just learning which cards work well together and what cards are valued more than others.

 

[darkewaffle]

I wouldn't say time consuming to build, but tweaking it is basically a matter of playing it regularly and trying to determine what you use/don't use/get beat by and attempting to make replacements to account for it. You can basically start a reasonable deck for any class with nothing more than the useful basic minions (harvest golem, dark iron dwarf, leper gnome, etc) and whatever useful spells/weapons/minions are viable for your class. It won't be a world beater but it's a start.

 

[HumblePie]

Millstone decks were not viable in MTG when MTG was just released. Only recently has it become a serious option. Note however, even if it's not a serious option, people do play it in hearthstone. A deck being below top tier doesn't make it not-a-deck. It's still playable, just maybe not as good as X flavor of the month deck.

What?? Millstone decks were viable from the get go with braingeyser from the get go. It was more viable with a few expansions, but it was viable from Alpha.

Hearthstone is completely different and a "millstone" was a card from Antiquities. Which was the second expansion back in 1994. And millstone would be far better since it doesn't put cards into the opponent hand, they just go straight to the discard.

Naturalize is a horrible card for hearthstone because it basically gives your an opponent a better advantage over anything they lost. Hearthstone, most minions don't make it past 2 rounds out in the field. They just don't. The only possible combination would be with the paladin card that lets you balance your hand to the opponents hand *might* have made it an ok situational card, but since naturalize is a druid card that can't be used with the paladin card then it is worthless.

There are more than a few junky cards in hearthstone. Then again it is beta, and they might get around to balancing everything.

 

[Ns1]

what the fuck is millstone?

force your opponents to draw until they run out of cards? aka a draw deck?

HB - wow, when you start mentioning shit like "antiquities" i know you're old school.

 

[smackababy]

what the fuck is millstone?

force your opponents to draw until they run out of cards? aka a draw deck?

HB - wow, when you start mentioning shit like "antiquities" i know you're old school.

I've always heard them called burn decks, but yes.

And they are pointless in Hearthstone due to the availability of playing cards. Unless you have a terrible mana curve and your deck is filled with 6+ mana card, you're playing at least 2 per turn. And, you don't lose instantly when you run out of cards. You have to get slowly drained, while having your cards to play.

 

[Ns1]

And, you don't lose instantly when you run out of cards

Since I've never gotten there...what exactly happens here? Does the "graveyard" get reshuffled or do you simply stop drawing?

 

[HumblePie]

I was having a discussion last night with my friend on the decks in this game and drawing comparison to MTG.

Paladin = white weeny deck mostly. Pumping out little 1/1 with some protection to chip away at the opponent. Then land a few big buffs to pop a weeny to something monstrous when the opponent can't counter it.
I rank this one of the better decks to play with once it gets going for all experience levels.

Mage = blue/red control damage deck. Control in this game is mainly minion denying or spell countering through secrets. Mage has the only actual counter spell in the game. Mage is all about pumping your spell dps up as best as possible and countering anything the opponent plays
One of the best decks out there to play from noobs to the experienced players.

Hunter = Green/red rush deck. Some DD dps and lots of little rush creatures with occasional big crush creatures. One of the best decks out there to play from noobs to experienced players

Warlock = Black sacrifice speed deck. Some countering, some DD dps, and big effects at the cost of the warlock. Sometimes it pays off and sometimes it doesn't. Due to randomness of the deck and specialization of combos required, it's not an easy deck to play with. For noobs one of the worst, and even for experienced players not all that great

Cleric = White/Black deck. It has protection/healing from white, and the ability to go DPS sacrifice of black with a little bit of the white weeny too although not as crazy as the paladin deck. It's an out live your opponent deck. Doesn't have much in the way of counters. It's harder for noobs to play but can do well enough with experienced players

Shaman = Blue/green/red semi creature dps heal counter deck. It basically tries to do too much with the cards available. Like warlock it also has a lot of randomness to it which can really help or hurt you. Not exactly the best for noobs to play and not great for experienced

Druid White/Green/Red healing/creature/dd rush deck. Similar to Shaman but more focus on healing and protection and weeny creature rush. Less on DD and randomness. Also has the worst card in the game with naturalize. It can be very fast for a rush deck like a hunter if not faster. But it also tries to do too much and one can get screwed over by trying to rely on too many little combos. It's not a very good noob deck, but better than shaman/warlock. It can be very powerful in the hands of an experienced player. When it crushes it crushes.

Rogue = Blue/black creature and creature counter deck. Some randomness to this deck with some small sacrifice, but nothing like the warlock deck. It has some dps potential, but not really any spike dps. It has some good countering potential though against minion cards. It's an okay noob deck and a decent experienced player deck.

So here how I would rank the decks on a noob friendly scale:
1. Hunter
2. Mage
3. Paladin
4. Cleric
5. Rogue
6. Druid
7. Shaman
8. Warlock

Here is how I would rank them for overall:
1. Mage
2. Hunter
3. Paladin
4. Druid
5. Cleric
6. Rogue
7. Shaman
8. Warlock



Although anyone can technically win with any deck, especially early on, because more cards in a deck are usually neutral cards. Decks are 30 cards with most low level decks only having about 10ish class based cards. Higher level decks have 15ish class based cards or so. So while a warlock deck I think is weaker at level 1 than a level 1 mage deck, a warlock deck can still beat a mage deck due to both mostly relying on neutral class cards.

How I've built and seen decks built:

1) Build for late game. The game isn't quick enough that it's rare someone is going to win by round 7 or earlier. Most games if not all will have both opponents reach 8 mana. Which means having your deck full of low casting cost cards is only going to hurt you in the end game as you run out of cards in 1 round and risk having your opponent countering everything you do in a single round with 1 or 2 cards. So the majority of your cards should be 3+ casting cost.

2) Look for combos if you have the cards. Some decks lend themselves really well to certain combos. Mage does well with spell damage combo cards. Hunter does well with beast minion combo cards. If you don't have the combos cards then go with cards that split threats or eliminate threats when played. Some have already been mentioned, but here are some of the great neutral cards everyone has: All the Summon extra minion Battle cry cards. You force your opponent to have to deal with multiple threats from 1 card. Which forces your opponent to opponent to use 2 actions to deal with 1 action from yourself. Sprinkle in taunters if you don't have combos that rely on them. Look for the bigger taunters with more health over the smaller ones.

3) Build your deck to gain an action advantage over the opponent. You want your opponent having to spend 2 or more actions to counter every one of your actions. You want your actions to counter multiple actions on your opponent. For example, spells like flamestrike, and consecrate wipe out multiple enemy minions with 1 spell. Save your single target minion wipers for the later big game minions that are harder to take down with 1 action otherwise.

4) Always have ways to get more cards. I've only ran out of cards from my deck in this game once and I still won even taking damage from not drawing for 2 rounds. If you run out of cards, chances are the opponent is about to die. Don't be afraid to cycle cards fast.


With those main points in mind, it is easy to see why I ranked the decks as I did. Those decks that are more efficient in actions usage, faster cycling, and build for late game tend to win more consistently in Hearthstone.

 

[HumblePie]

what the fuck is millstone?

force your opponents to draw until they run out of cards? aka a draw deck?

HB - wow, when you start mentioning shit like "antiquities" i know you're old school.

I started in 1992 when I started high school. I was one of those guys with all the massively OP cards and decks. I had sets of alphas, betas, legends, and others. Funny thing is I only probably spent a few hundred bucks into the game, but I was a massive wheeling/dealing trading fool. I would go to tournaments hoping to lose early on so I could spend the rest of the weekend doing nothing but trades 🙂 I was crazy like that.

Then the funny thing is, I got pissed off at it all one day while I was in the AF and just toasted the whole damn collection while I was drunk with some friends. Put thousands of dollars worth of cards into a burn barrel and lit them up. I did miss 1 binder which I still have. It was an extra spare trade binder. Mostly dual lands but has a few gems like extra Tabernacles and such. Met a friend here recently who likes to play MTG which I hadn't done for years. Let him drag me out with his kids to a game shop. I brought along my binder and laughed as everyone in the placed drooled over it. Some quite literally.

Good and bad memories from years of that game.

 

[Ns1]

I was having a discussion last night with my friend on the decks in this game and drawing comparison to MTG.

wall of text

the analogies were awesome, thanks.

 

[HumblePie]

Ooops, forgot to mention warrior in my round up. However, Warrior is a bit strange. It's a red creature plainswalker deck in my opinion. The warrior decks can go with big rush red creatures with usually a small downside to them OR the Warrior can attack directly a lot with lots of weapons and armor sort of like having a big plainswalker hero type card. I would consider it an average deck for anyone.