Hearings on the run up to war should begin immediately

[International Machine Consortium]

Cheney and Co. have been given a hard hard slap to the face by the American people, their agenda has been repudiated with the finality of a hammer blow. The Democrats need to begin putting the nightmare of Iraq behind us by investigating how it is we even ended up there and Osama was allowed to run free. I disagree with the notion that now all of a sudden we need "Bi-Partisanship" since the Republicans did nothing but lord it over the entire country for years. They've created the divisive, polarized and poisonous atmosphere in this country and now they have been sentenced and the punishment should begin now. They need a swift, sure comeuppance so that we may avoid such a travesty in the future.
Dems need to face forward and just run with it, ignore the catcalling right-wingers clamoring for "Bi-Partisanship" which is just the talk of the recently converted....

 

[morkinva]

You're living in a dream world, Neo.

What you and most of this forum fail to realize is these dems and reps are all on the same side. It's like when people believe that Greg the Hammer was wrestling for real on the local uhf.

You believe you'll be SAVED by the democratic charge, when in reality, nothing good will come from it. They will not reverse the patriot acts, they will not pay any attention to border security and won't address the forthcoming American union. They will not address CAFR's, the federal reserve mess, and the IRS which keep you in slavery. Any attempts at punishment will only be a show, for you, the duped, hornswaggled and bamboozled.

 

[International Machine Consortium]

Oh come now, don't be so negative! Smile! It's a good day! 🙂

 

[EagleKeeper]

Are you interested in getting out of the Iraqi quagmire or digging up dirt?

first things first.

 

[Lemon law]

I am somewhat ambivalent on this point---how we got into the Iraq war may be a job for future historians----and I point out we are still not to the point where we understand Vietnam.

What is still fresh in my mind is the run up to Iraq war---and certain rhetoric that really could have been used against any country---which turned into they MIGHT HAVE THIS WEAPON---AND MIGHT USE IT AGAINST us---so we better strike first.

And even at this late date, there are certain papers and personnel that can shed much light on what some of our war hawks knew and when they knew it. There may be a fine line between forcefully advocating a position---and telling an out right lie.

A classic case of this is Condi's statement---"These aluminum tubes CAN ONLY be used in nuclear weapons production."------when its already been demostrated that this was only a theory---and that many people in the intelligence community already knew the likely use was in artillery rockets.

Making Condi's statement either (a) An outright lie (b) That Condi was just plain incompetent.

But now that its possible---I do believe its productive to find out these answers---and pronto---so we can get out the dead wood and liars out of government.

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Are you interested in getting out of the Iraqi quagmire or digging up dirt?

first things first.

There is absolutely no reason both cannot proceed simultaneously. About half the country thinks this administration lied to get us into a possibly-illegal war, and that it continues to act illegally on several fronts. These concerns should be addressed, either to refute them or to bring accountability to the perpetrators if true.

That said, I disagree with the OP in that I don't think such an investigation precludes bipartisanship. While some Republicans may dig in their heels and resist an investigation out of blind partisan loyalty (or guilt, in some cases), I hope most will recognize the need to find the truth. They should support a fair and honest investigation. Similarly, the Democrats need to restrict their activities to a fair and honest investigation, not another Starr-style witch hunt. If they take the low road, they will likely pay for it in 2008, no matter how much "dirt" they find. I think Americans are fed up with petty partisan mudslinging.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Are you interested in getting out of the Iraqi quagmire or digging up dirt?

first things first.

There is absolutely no reason both cannot proceed simultaneously. About half the country thinks this administration lied to get us into a possibly-illegal war, and that it continues to act illegally on several fronts. These concerns should be addressed, either to refute them or to bring accountability to the perpetrators if true.

That said, I disagree with the OP in that I don't think such an investigation precludes bipartisanship. While some Republicans may dig in their heels and resist an investigation out of blind partisan loyalty (or guilt, in some cases), I hope most will recognize the need to find the truth. They should support a fair and honest investigation. Similarly, the Democrats need to restrict their activities to a fair and honest investigation, not another Starr-style witch hunt. If they take the low road, they will likely pay for it in 2008, no matter how much "dirt" they find. I think Americans are fed up with petty partisan mudslinging.

I have no problem with uncovering the truth.

Spending enegry on digging up dirt (at this point) will be conterproductive. People will circle their wagons and finger pointing/stalling will occur.

Egos are going to get bruised.

Straightening up the drain on this coiuntry is more important than satisfying the ego of finger pointing (which seems to be the intentino of the OP in many of his posts).

The couintry was distracted by Iraq when we went after the Taliban. We have an economy to keep on track, fences to mend and a mess to get out of. There are not enough political resources to start a witchhunt at this point.

Remember, that the next 2 years will require political comprimises; the Republicans were wounded, not crushed. bush still controls the veto button which can impact the democrat agenda.

Let the radical Democrats loose and you will have the same scenario in reverse that has existed with the radical right recently.

 

[Lemon law]

As posted by EagleKeeper--------Egos are going to get bruised.

I am not the least bit worried about bruised ego's---this deadly serious business---nearly 700,000 peopel have lost their lives---all the uncounted billions of dollars wasted---and anyone worries about about brusied ego's just does not get it.

But I do agree that any investigation must be limited in scope---or it will just turn into a divisive partisan witch hunt.-------there are certain productive questions that need to be asked---and don't ask the unanswererable questions.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

I also think that once the people who forced us into war under the guise of lies, deception and coverups (redundant maybe) stand trial for this and are summarily charged, there could be an overwhelming support for the US once again. Right now, we are looked at like a joke, a president who has zero concept of international relations, how to balance a budget, lies outright to the most powerful nations citizens, and has a supporting cast that are willing to do the same.
Once they are held accountable, I think there will be a very positive change in the wind, and yes, I think we can do both, figure out a way to leave Iraq, and not leave it a smoking crater.

 

[ayabe]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Are you interested in getting out of the Iraqi quagmire or digging up dirt?

first things first.

There is absolutely no reason both cannot proceed simultaneously. About half the country thinks this administration lied to get us into a possibly-illegal war, and that it continues to act illegally on several fronts. These concerns should be addressed, either to refute them or to bring accountability to the perpetrators if true.

That said, I disagree with the OP in that I don't think such an investigation precludes bipartisanship. While some Republicans may dig in their heels and resist an investigation out of blind partisan loyalty (or guilt, in some cases), I hope most will recognize the need to find the truth. They should support a fair and honest investigation. Similarly, the Democrats need to restrict their activities to a fair and honest investigation, not another Starr-style witch hunt. If they take the low road, they will likely pay for it in 2008, no matter how much "dirt" they find. I think Americans are fed up with petty partisan mudslinging.

I have no problem with uncovering the truth.

Spending enegry on digging up dirt (at this point) will be conterproductive. People will circle their wagons and finger pointing/stalling will occur.

Egos are going to get bruised.

Straightening up the drain on this coiuntry is more important than satisfying the ego of finger pointing (which seems to be the intentino of the OP in many of his posts).

The couintry was distracted by Iraq when we went after the Taliban. We have an economy to keep on track, fences to mend and a mess to get out of. There are not enough political resources to start a witchhunt at this point.

Remember, that the next 2 years will require political comprimises; the Republicans were wounded, not crushed. bush still controls the veto button which can impact the democrat agenda.

Let the radical Democrats loose and you will have the same scenario in reverse that has existed with the radical right recently.

There is plenty of time for both, Congress just has to work 5 days a week instead of the current 2. Comedian John Kerry stated that he wants that to happen.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Are you interested in getting out of the Iraqi quagmire or digging up dirt?

first things first.

Exactomundo! The last thing we need now is divisiveness among our leaders. We need to start practicing that "united we stand" attitude everyone on both sides was touting after 9/11. The dems have a chance to pratice detente, rise above the in-fighting and absolutisms that have worsend our position internationally since then, and be magnanimous in victory. Stop pointing F'in fingers at each other and making scapegoats, and start focusing on solutions to the huge problems that face our country.

If you dumb partisan bastages would just come to the conclusion the rest of us have, that it is "We the people", and not "Us and Them", our enemies would find themselves screwed and tatooed soon enough.

 

[palehorse]

Pelosi stated prior to the election that there would not be a witch-hunt, so don't hold your breath. I would also like to see a congress entirely focused on solving the problems at hand, rather than expending their energy in "righting any wrongs" in the past. Internal bickering, hearings, and investigations will only distract them from the most important issue which is winning the war in Iraq, improving national security, and fighting the GWOT.

I thought we ALL learned our lesson with the Clinton-impeachment debacle... did we not? Is this some form of "payback"? Is that how you would justify it?

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Are you interested in getting out of the Iraqi quagmire or digging up dirt?

first things first.

There is absolutely no reason both cannot proceed simultaneously. About half the country thinks this administration lied to get us into a possibly-illegal war, and that it continues to act illegally on several fronts. These concerns should be addressed, either to refute them or to bring accountability to the perpetrators if true.

That said, I disagree with the OP in that I don't think such an investigation precludes bipartisanship. While some Republicans may dig in their heels and resist an investigation out of blind partisan loyalty (or guilt, in some cases), I hope most will recognize the need to find the truth. They should support a fair and honest investigation. Similarly, the Democrats need to restrict their activities to a fair and honest investigation, not another Starr-style witch hunt. If they take the low road, they will likely pay for it in 2008, no matter how much "dirt" they find. I think Americans are fed up with petty partisan mudslinging.

I have no problem with uncovering the truth.

Spending enegry on digging up dirt (at this point) will be conterproductive. People will circle their wagons and finger pointing/stalling will occur.

That didn't seem to be the prevailing attitude of the rioght when they spent 8 years "diggin up dirt" on CLinton.

Egos are going to get bruised.

Straightening up the drain on this coiuntry is more important than satisfying the ego of finger pointing (which seems to be the intentino of the OP in many of his posts).

The couintry was distracted by Iraq when we went after the Taliban. We have an economy to keep on track, fences to mend and a mess to get out of. There are not enough political resources to start a witchhunt at this point.

Remember, that the next 2 years will require political comprimises; the Republicans were wounded, not crushed. bush still controls the veto button which can impact the democrat agenda.

Let the radical Democrats loose and you will have the same scenario in reverse that has existed with the radical right recently.

It isn't radical to saerch for the truth, especially when the current verison of "the truth" seems to be based on lies and deceptions. It's called "accountability", and without a doubt everyone who holds a public office needs to be held to a certain standard. There is, IMO, enough doubt to justify more "bi-partisian" investigation.

Or is the GOP afraid of the truth?

 

[EagleKeeper]

Investigation != witch hunt.

A witch-hunt will distract the political system from getting the country back on track.

If the Dems want to continue to ahve a say in running the country; then they had better demonstrate that they can lead.

They have been given a chance to prove it; a witch-hunt will not prove it the ability to lead - just the ability to play tit-for-tat.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Investigation != witch hunt.

A witch-hunt will distract the political system from getting the country back on track.

If the Dems want to continue to have a say in running the country; then they had better demonstrate that they can lead.

They have been given a chance to prove it; a witch-hunt will not prove it the ability to lead - just the ability to play tit-for-tat.

I don't know why some are having trouble grasping this 😕 The fact is- We have bigger fish to fry.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Investigation != witch hunt.

A witch-hunt will distract the political system from getting the country back on track.

If the Dems want to continue to have a say in running the country; then they had better demonstrate that they can lead.

They have been given a chance to prove it; a witch-hunt will not prove it the ability to lead - just the ability to play tit-for-tat.

I don't know why some are having trouble grasping this 😕 The fact is- We have bigger fish to fry.

QFT.

 

[dmcowen674]

"We know Saddam has WMD and we know where they are".


That ought to be the beginning and the end of any inquiry.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Investigation != witch hunt.

A witch-hunt will distract the political system from getting the country back on track.

If the Dems want to continue to have a say in running the country; then they had better demonstrate that they can lead.

They have been given a chance to prove it; a witch-hunt will not prove it the ability to lead - just the ability to play tit-for-tat.

I don't know why some are having trouble grasping this 😕 The fact is- Wehave bigger fish to fry.

Yep, we have bigger fish to fry, and I assume you mean Iraq, but it is exactly because of the lies and deceptions leadin up to Iraq that further investigation is called for.

There is no reason that I can see why we can't investigate and hold public servants accountable and conduct the war or even do both and at teh same time concentrate our efforts to get OBL.

It has nothing to do with "tit for tat", it has to do with accoutability for anyone who has violated the public trust.

I can only conclude that that despite their "thumping" and claims of bi-partisianship, the GOP is up to their old tricks already.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Investigation != witch hunt.

A witch-hunt will distract the political system from getting the country back on track.

If the Dems want to continue to have a say in running the country; then they had better demonstrate that they can lead.

They have been given a chance to prove it; a witch-hunt will not prove it the ability to lead - just the ability to play tit-for-tat.

I don't know why some are having trouble grasping this 😕 The fact is- Wehave bigger fish to fry.

Yep, we have bigger fish to fry, and I assume you mean Iraq, but it is exactly because of the lies and deceptions leadin up to Iraq that further investigation is called for.

There is no reason that I can see why we can't investigate and hold public servants accountable and conduct the war or even do both and at teh same time concentrate our efforts to get OBL.

It has nothing to do with "tit for tat", it has to do with accoutability for anyone who has violated the public trust.

I can only conclude that that despite their "thumping" and claims of bi-partisianship, the GOP is up to their old tricks already.

you are under the impression that an investigation could take place quietly in the background while the Dems charge ahead to win in Iraq simultaneously... the problem is that any such "investigation" would be turned into a witch-hunt by the inevitable media-frenzy that would result. Ever since OJ, trials and investigations are the backbone of our media. They absolutely thrive on them, turning every high-profile case into an exaggerated episode of Law and Order.

There is absolutely no possible way that any investigations, hearings, trials, and prosecutions could occur in the background. They would quickly become THE story and THE focus of our nation's government; and that is unacceptable while our nation is at war.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Given the crys heard here and in the media by the Democrat leaders; some are more interested in continuing their pillorying of Bush (especially now they have the shackles taken off).

the country wanted a change in direction; let the Dems get that change started.

There is plenty of time for a witch hunt if they want to - show some leadership in implementing your version on how the country should move forward.

If you can not do that to the electorate, then 2008 will become another shock.
the clock is ticking - it will take from Jan 07 to Jan 08 to show that you can accomplish something - that is a very very small time in Congressional accomplishment ability.
congress is usually in session for less than half of that time - that allows for about 100+ days to show that they can do it. Every day spent on distractions will be one day less that they can show they can deliver.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Investigation != witch hunt.

A witch-hunt will distract the political system from getting the country back on track.

If the Dems want to continue to ahve a say in running the country; then they had better demonstrate that they can lead.

They have been given a chance to prove it; a witch-hunt will not prove it the ability to lead - just the ability to play tit-for-tat.

Do you honestly believe they can get anything done the next two years with Bush at the desk???

He would not veto any of his minions bills but you can be sure he will all of a sudden become "The Veto President" instead of "The War President".

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Given the crys heard here and in the media by the Democrat leaders; some are more interested in continuing their pillorying of Bush (especially now they have the shackles taken off).

the country wanted a change in direction; let the Dems get that change started.

There is plenty of time for a witch hunt if they want to - show some leadership in implementing your version on how the country should move forward.

If you can not do that to the electorate, then 2008 will become another shock.
the clock is ticking - it will take from Jan 07 to Jan 08 to show that you can accomplish something - that is a very very small time in Congressional accomplishment ability.
congress is usually in session for less than half of that time - that allows for about 100+ days to show that they can do it. Every day spent on distractions will be one day less that they can show they can deliver.

They will actually have 22 months to accomplish something... but you are right on with everything else you wrote! We really can't afford to have those 22 months focused on a witch-hunt. We are at war.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Given the crys heard here and in the media by the Democrat leaders; some are more interested in continuing their pillorying of Bush (especially now they have the shackles taken off).

the country wanted a change in direction; let the Dems get that change started.

There is plenty of time for a witch hunt if they want to - show some leadership in implementing your version on how the country should move forward.

If you can not do that to the electorate, then 2008 will become another shock.
the clock is ticking - it will take from Jan 07 to Jan 08 to show that you can accomplish something - that is a very very small time in Congressional accomplishment ability.
congress is usually in session for less than half of that time - that allows for about 100+ days to show that they can do it. Every day spent on distractions will be one day less that they can show they can deliver.

They will actually have 22 months to accomplish something... but you are right on with everything else you wrote! We really can't afford to have those 22 months focused on a witch-hunt. We are at war.

The congress can walk and chew gum. Oversight is one of their primary functions and for Democrats to attract Republican voters they have to start holding people accountable. 😉 We don't want the welfare moms of industry living off the fat of the land with illegal and special deal contracts created by an illegal war. As they change direction and repair, to the extent possible, the mess in Iraq, they need to dig up and prosecute any illegal actions taking place there. One can't be too sympathetic to fools whose actions caused a stampede into war because we have to create reasons, accountability, so it will be less likely to happen again. Saddam, after all, is paying with his neck and we have capital punishment here. No reason why war crimes isn't treason enough to get people shot. It's a long established Republican way.

 

[d3n]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Given the crys heard here and in the media by the Democrat leaders; some are more interested in continuing their pillorying of Bush (especially now they have the shackles taken off).

the country wanted a change in direction; let the Dems get that change started.

There is plenty of time for a witch hunt if they want to - show some leadership in implementing your version on how the country should move forward.

If you can not do that to the electorate, then 2008 will become another shock.
the clock is ticking - it will take from Jan 07 to Jan 08 to show that you can accomplish something - that is a very very small time in Congressional accomplishment ability.
congress is usually in session for less than half of that time - that allows for about 100+ days to show that they can do it. Every day spent on distractions will be one day less that they can show they can deliver.

They will actually have 22 months to accomplish something... but you are right on with everything else you wrote! We really can't afford to have those 22 months focused on a witch-hunt. We are at war.

Than you for acknowledging that. I think that many just refer to it as a mess The fact is today because of the environment in Iraq, Jihadist are sending their people to fight and die there. It is a front for the war and it needs to be resolved to a point where they are not emboldened. The key is the place that we leave behind needs to be a place for a quality life to be had democracy or not.

Discontent makes it so easy for people who would love to see the world under Islamic law to point fingers at the west and focus the blame us for their lot in life. Its been going on over there since before Khamenei.


I really think this is what Bush was thinking when he looked at Iraq. To put the seed of the good life in the heart of southwest asia. Truthfully,I don't see this situation as being salvageable for anything more then Vietnam was. The only difference when left alone these young jihadist are going to have all the encouragement they need to carry the fight on here at home.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Investigation != witch hunt.

A witch-hunt will distract the political system from getting the country back on track.

If the Dems want to continue to have a say in running the country; then they had better demonstrate that they can lead.

They have been given a chance to prove it; a witch-hunt will not prove it the ability to lead - just the ability to play tit-for-tat.

I don't know why some are having trouble grasping this 😕 The fact is- Wehave bigger fish to fry.

Yep, we have bigger fish to fry, and I assume you mean Iraq, but it is exactly because of the lies and deceptions leadin up to Iraq that further investigation is called for.

There is no reason that I can see why we can't investigate and hold public servants accountable and conduct the war or even do both and at teh same time concentrate our efforts to get OBL.

It has nothing to do with "tit for tat", it has to do with accoutability for anyone who has violated the public trust.

I can only conclude that that despite their "thumping" and claims of bi-partisianship, the GOP is up to their old tricks already.

you are under the impression that an investigation could take place quietly in the background while the Dems charge ahead to win in Iraq simultaneously... the problem is that any such "investigation" would be turned into a witch-hunt by the inevitable media-frenzy that would result. Ever since OJ, trials and investigations are the backbone of our media. They absolutely thrive on them, turning every high-profile case into an exaggerated episode of Law and Order.

There is absolutely no possible way that any investigations, hearings, trials, and prosecutions could occur in the background. They would quickly become THE story and THE focus of our nation's government; and that is unacceptable while our nation is at war.

LOL, you mean exactly what Clinton had to put up with for 8 years? I guess your concern for the ability of the POTUS to run the US depends on whose bull is being gored. Amazing how "bi-partisan" you Neo-Con's are. You seem to have a total disregard for truth and you think you can misdirect the Americans people wrath? As Honest Abe said, "You can fool all of the people some of the time, some of the people all of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time."

Besides, think about this one, if we can PROVE that the American people were deliberatley mislead, we will gain back some of our international credibility and at the same time would open up a possible avenue to an "honorable" solution to a withdrawl from Iraq. Perhaps then we can get more international cooperation on the ME problem and can concentrate more on getting OBL.