Healthcare.gov costs $840M to create

[theeedude]

Unless suddenly Boehner is a programmer and wrote the code in question he doesn't have standing.

You obviously have no idea how open source or copyright works. Just stop.

Not having standing hasn't stopped him from suing Obama over delaying Obamacare mandate.
But you make a good point that none of the programmers of the code in question have sued either. So the only ones griping on about this are Republicans grasping for straws to bash Obamacare.

 

[TerryMathews]

Not having standing hasn't stopped him from suing Obama over delaying Obamacare mandate.
But you make a good point that none of the programmers of the code in question have sued either. So the only ones griping on about this are Republicans grasping for straws to bash Obamacare.

Three points and a conclusion:

1-I don't see "Republicans" pushing this point, I see genx87. One person.
2-The only group that had standing, SpryMedia, "took it up" with HHS. (per http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs...tml?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter) Furthermore, as the code was dual licensed under BSD, all they had to do was maintain the copyright notice in the code where it is invisible to the end user which makes the violation both especially egregious and ignorant. BSD license is the most permissive license there is. Violating it is literally spitting in the face of the programmers you have stolen from. It's like stealing from a food bank.
3-Boehner's standing is that Obama isn't properly executing the laws that Congress passed and were signed into law. As the head of his half of that branch, he has de facto standing.

Conclusion: you're still an idiot.

 

[hal2kilo]

This is the problem with government procurement. There are companies that have no idea how to do anything except win government contracts. Even though they screw up every contract they win, they still get them because they know how to win the contracts. I think this company fall into that category, as I think I remember reading they had no experience building a website like this.

Companies that do have a clue have no interesting in dealing with government procurement, so they don't even bid. I see this a lot of military parts procurement as well.

That is the real trick to goverment contracting. How you respond to the RFP, the whole shbang. Actual qualifications are further down the list.

 

[Genx87]

I have no idea where they are in the process. But here is an example of open source software being used that broke the agreement.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs...ng-agreement-copyrighted-software_763666.html

My point about using open sourced software was we paid 840 million dollars for this level of work? They basically copy and pasted others work into their application. And then had the audacity to not credit them for it.

 

[nehalem256]

That is the real trick to goverment contracting. How you respond to the RFP, the whole shbang. Actual qualifications are further down the list.

Probably things like making sure you have the "correct" number of women and minorities(where the minorities that are actually involved in IT don't count as minorities).

Shouldn't be a surprise when this results in failure.

 

[Veliko]

nehalem256 getting in his usual dig at women.

 

[rudder]

Actually, somebody did and it ended up exceeding expectations.

It sure was a fuckup at first though.

Jay? Jay Carney is that you?

 

[theeedude]

Three points and a conclusion:
...
Conclusion: you're still an idiot.

You felt that your substantive arguments were so weak that you had to throw in a personal attack to support them? I can see why :biggrin:
Last I checked Congress passed the copyright laws too. So Boehner has as much (or little in his case) standing to sue Obama under Copyright law as he does under the ACA.
BTW, the script that rightwing rag you cited was whining about now has the GPL copyright notice.
https://www.healthcare.gov/marketplace/global/en_US/js/jquery.dataTables.js
So you'll just have to find another tree to go bark up.

 

[nehalem256]

nehalem256 getting in his usual dig at women.

Wrong. Its my usual dig at liberals.

If you hire people based on the color of their skin, or what is, or isn't, dangling between their legs instead of their competence it shouldn't be a surprise when you fail horribly.

 

[OutHouse]

The worst part is they were stealing open source code to run the site.

says who?

 

[theeedude]

says who?

Don't you know Obama was sitting up at night deleting GPL copyright comments on JavaScript files? :biggrin:

 

[nehalem256]

Don't you know Obama was sitting up at night deleting GPL copyright comments on JavaScript files? :biggrin:

Whoa there. Are you trying to imply that Obama actually had knowledge of something that was going on?

 

[TerryMathews]

You felt that your substantive arguments were so weak that you had to throw in a personal attack to support them? I can see why :biggrin:
Last I checked Congress passed the copyright laws too. So Boehner has as much (or little in his case) standing to sue Obama under Copyright law as he does under the ACA.
BTW, the script that rightwing rag you cited was whining about now has the GPL copyright notice.
https://www.healthcare.gov/marketplace/global/en_US/js/jquery.dataTables.js
So you'll just have to find another tree to go bark up.

No. Boehner would have standing if Obama were refusing to enforce copyright law or an aspect of it. So far as I know, copyright is alive and well in this country. Do you have some specific evidence to the contrary to cite? Otherwise, you are building up your own straw man and tearing it down.

I threw in a personal attack because you didn't get the original hint: you don't know what you're talking about. You should just stop, and go read up on copyright as it pertains to software and the relevant open source licenses.

Finally, it is great that CGI Federal came into compliance with copyright law regarding the open source software they appropriated. That in no way negates genx87's point that paying a company to develop software for you, which in turn infringes copyright on open source software, indicates a poorly run contract.

No one is saying that Obama literally logged into github and deleted the copyright notices out, or that he is responsible for it. CGI Fed is responsible. Obama, or his subordinates, are responsible for ensuring proper quality controls were in place regarding the product that was delivered. The missing copyright notifications are merely one of many documented examples of that failure of oversight.

 

[theeedude]

No. Boehner would have standing if Obama were refusing to enforce copyright law or an aspect of it. So far as I know, copyright is alive and well in this country. Do you have some specific evidence to the contrary to cite? Otherwise, you are building up your own straw man and tearing it down.

I threw in a personal attack because you didn't get the original hint: you don't know what you're talking about. You should just stop, and go read up on copyright as it pertains to software and the relevant open source licenses.

Finally, it is great that CGI Federal came into compliance with copyright law regarding the open source software they appropriated. That in no way negates genx87's point that paying a company to develop software for you, which in turn infringes copyright on open source software, indicates a poorly run contract.

No one is saying that Obama literally logged into github and deleted the copyright notices out, or that he is responsible for it. CGI Fed is responsible. Obama, or his subordinates, are responsible for ensuring proper quality controls were in place regarding the product that was delivered. The missing copyright notifications are merely one of many documented examples of that failure of oversight.

OK, that doesn't negate the fact that Obamacare critics are now focusing on JavaScript comments. Long way to go from the "unmitigated disaster" we were promised. :biggrin:

 

[fskimospy]

Jay? Jay Carney is that you?

Are you saying it didn't exceed expectations or that it wasn't a fuckup to begin with?

 

[fskimospy]

No. Boehner would have standing if Obama were refusing to enforce copyright law or an aspect of it.

No, probably not. For example, this congressman's suit was just thrown out for lack of standing: http://www.jsonline.com/news/statep...led-by-ron-johnson-b99315486z1-268002681.html

This is in holding with a pretty long line of judgments of this sort.

 

[TerryMathews]

OK, that doesn't negate the fact that Obamacare critics are now focusing on JavaScript comments. Long way to go from the "unmitigated disaster" we were promised.

So now genx87 (an individual) qualifies as critics (plural)?

I can't find a single news story recently talking about the copyright infringement. Care to link one? Else this is a lot of teeth gnashing on your part over one poster.

 

[rudder]

Are you saying it didn't exceed expectations or that it wasn't a fuckup to begin with?

No I am saying you are like Jay Carney who would go in front a room of reporters and spout off crap that would never pass the smell test... and he did it so well I htink he actually believed all that crap himself.

The site exceeded expectations.... good one. Maybe if it were fully functional and cost under $75,000,000.

 

[fskimospy]

No I am saying you are like Jay Carney who would go in front a room of reporters and spout off crap that would never pass the smell test... and he did it so well I htink he actually believed all that crap himself.

The site exceeded expectations.... good one. Maybe if it were fully functional and cost under $75,000,000.

Perhaps you misunderstood, I meant the ACA as a whole exceeded expectations.

But yes, anyone who disagrees with you must be a professional liar or something.

 

[TerryMathews]

No, probably not. For example, this congressman's suit was just thrown out for lack of standing: http://www.jsonline.com/news/statep...led-by-ron-johnson-b99315486z1-268002681.html

This is in holding with a pretty long line of judgments of this sort.

You're actually strengthening my point, thanks.

 

[zephyrprime]

From your "two-step plan," you clearly have no experience or knowledge about building scalable enterprise systems. You're ignoring the infrastructure and a host of other costs. Assuming the government bought the hardware to run the infrastructure (and I'm not sure if they did or not), you are probably looking at $1 million+ for that alone.

The government probably bought the hardware because they are concerned about who hosts that sensitive medical information even though it's only minimal medical info. It's too bad that the government has to host that stuff though because using cloud resources is by far more economical for this sort of site which sees a spike in usage right around enrollment deadlines and little usage all the rest of the time.

 

[fskimospy]

You're actually strengthening my point, thanks.

No, I'm not. In this case, as is very likely in the impending Boehner suing Obama case, this was dismissed for lack of standing. No matter what Obama was doing with copyright law it's unlikely Boehner could sue him unless Boehner wrote the code himself.

Not liking how the executive is or is not enforcing laws does not confer standing.

 

[Veliko]

Wrong. Its my usual dig at liberals.

If you hire people based on the color of their skin, or what is, or isn't, dangling between their legs instead of their competence it shouldn't be a surprise when you fail horribly.

Disproving your bigotry by demonstrating your bigotry? That's a new one.

 

[nehalem256]

Disproving your bigotry by demonstrating your bigotry? That's a new one.

Saying that people should be hired because of their skillset instead of their skin color or genital type is bigotry now?

I guess its time to pull out my Liberal->English dictionary again.

 

[TerryMathews]

No, I'm not. In this case, as is very likely in the impending Boehner suing Obama case, this was dismissed for lack of standing. No matter what Obama was doing with copyright law it's unlikely Boehner could sue him unless Boehner wrote the code himself.

Not liking how the executive is or is not enforcing laws does not confer standing.

My original post was that Boehner couldn't sue Obama over copyright infringement on the web site. So, yes, you are.