Health insurance costs for 2014 - didn't expect that

[Jeff7]

Clearly you're no longer capable of having a civil discussion. Please take the earliest opportunity to fuck off.

Problem is, that's usually what you get from those who are against any kind of healthcare reform that will help pay for those who can't afford it:

- "They should get jobs that offer health insurance."
- "It's not my fault they that have a job which doesn't pay enough for them to afford the insurance plan."
- "Too bad. You don't get what you can't pay for."
- "Good. Fewer poor people to live with."
- "Why should I have to pay anything for someone else?"
- "Communist! If you don't like this country, get out!"

Those are some of the "ideas" and sentiments that tend to come up when there's any mention or discussion of healthcare reform that would give everyone access to healthcare.

But, those things are always easier for people to say when it doesn't apply to a friend or loved one.

 

[Engineer]

But, those things are always easier for people to say when it doesn't apply to a friend or loved one.

or themselves.

But hey, it would make it cheaper and better (i.e. higher profits to develop better care for the payers). Win-win.

 

[sixone]

She had an option to buy insurance. Why should the paying customers pick up her tab (and don't be so blind to think that the hospital didn't pass that on to the paying customers including any costs involved in trying to collect the payment from her). To keep her from dying (since she couldn't pay), you (and other friends and family) could have paid the bill for her? Why didn't you?

If someone doesn't buy insurance or cannot pay for the services, should they be given treatment for whatever they come down with and have it written off?

The point of the story, since you seem to have missed it, was that she got the treatment she needed, at a price she could afford, without any assistance from the government.

That's how the system ought to work, and how it DOES work, until this Obamonation kicks in next year. Obamacare isn't better than what we have today - it's just different.

If you don't have a BETTER idea, then shut the hell up and listen to people who do.

 

[Engineer]

If you don't have a BETTER idea, then shut the hell up and listen to people who do.

My ideas are most certainly better for those that pay. Why should I pay more because your deadbeat friend didn't pay and the hospital had to write it off (meaning that they passed it on to the next paying customer)? Why should people be able to 'choose' whether they take insurance or not but yet don't have to heed the consequences of such choices?

Better for who? You? Your friend?

Why are your ideas better than mine (details please)?

Why should the hospital be forced to provide care for someone who can't pay? Should WalMart be forced to give food to someone who can't pay for food and are very hungry?

And just because you don't like my ideas, you have no right to tell me to shut the hell up. I'll respond until it's locked or I'm banned.

 

[sixone]

My ideas are most certainly better for those that pay. Why should I pay more because your deadbeat friend didn't pay and the hospital had to write it off (meaning that they passed it on to the next paying customer)?

Better for who? You? Your friend?

Why are your ideas better than mine (details please)?

Why should the hospital be forced to provide care for someone who can't pay? Should WalMart be forced to give food to someone who can't pay for food and are very hungry?

No, they're not better. You claim that prices are too high, but you offer no solution that doesn't lead to lost jobs and less profits for investors - which include most 401ks and retirement plans.

If you have a solution other than letting people die when they get sick, let's see it. Put up or shut up.

 

[alkemyst]

Gym goes out of business if it loses money. Medicare is losing money. Time to go out of business. If the people don't have enough money for care, fuck em.

not really, it depends on cash flow.

However; no government agency really operates at a profit or even break even point.

I am not disagreeing with all your statements, but ObamaCare will fail if you are talking profits.

It's going to make a lot of people rich though.

 

[Engineer]

No, they're not better. You claim that prices are too high, but you offer no solution that doesn't lead to lost jobs and less profits for investors - which include most 401ks and retirement plans.

If you have a solution other than letting people die when they get sick, let's see it. Put up or shut up.

Having paying customers vs non paying customers = less profits? WTF world do you live in?

If they cannot afford insurance or choose not to get it, maybe we can set up 'health banks', similar to food banks, for their needs. Why should they be allowed to essentially 'shoplift' healthcare at the expense of the paying customers?

Many of my ideas from the above posts didn't involve people dying.

 

[Engineer]

not really, it depends on cash flow.

So do ponzi schemes.

 

[alkemyst]

So do ponzi schemes.

Hate to break it to you, but most governments are one big Ponzi scheme.

 

[Engineer]

Hate to break it to you, but most governments are one big Ponzi scheme.

I wasn't laughing when I posted the above.

 

[sixone]

Having paying customers vs non paying customers = less profits? WTF world do you live in?

If they cannot afford insurance or choose not to get it, maybe we can set up 'health banks', similar to food banks, for their needs. Why should they be allowed to essentially 'shoplift' healthcare at the expense of the paying customers?

Many of my ideas from the above posts didn't involve people dying.

That's exactly what single-payer would do. Taking tax money from those who pay, to give free care to those who don't.

 

[Engineer]

That's exactly what single-payer would do. Taking tax money from those who pay, to give free care to those who don't.

Well, I currently have to pay for the following:

1. Myself - for my care.
2. Medicare/Medicaid - for those that 'can't or won't' pay for themselves and are covered by the government.
3. Your friend - as the hospital didn't just eat the bill out of the kindness of their heart. They passed it on to the paying customers (i.e. me).

So we essentially have the same system then, unless 'single payer' was funded by something that everyone pays (including your deadbeat friend) like a sales tax or the likes (oh wait, I can't say the evil tax word....sorry).

I'm forced to pay more because your friend wouldn't pay for her own. Fuck that.

 

[alkemyst]

I wasn't laughing when I posted the above.

I agree you get it obviously then.

You are going to be scorned by those that choose to rather buy a boat, bike, nice car, too much house, too much clothing, etc over health insurance.

There are people that elect out of group coverage going for ObamaCare now. They actually were expecting it to be free though.

Down here in S. Florida is where a near majorly of Medicaid fraud happens. It's too easy for someone to play 'illegal immigrant' and get care they need. When I was a Pharmacy intern I knew a lot of those types. I was loading cases of baby formula, diapers, meds, ensure, etc into luxury SUV's driven by people wearing more expensive clothing that our Pharmacists could afford (they averaged $125k + about 10% in bonus/year in 1990).

It's sad. Even now I get pissed off at gatherings with folks that I know are making at least close to six figures or much higher talking about ObamaCare as a GODSEND! that's it's going to be free healthcare like our OFFICIALS get and FREE!

It's all fucked up and why I am so out of politics.

 

[sixone]

Well, I currently have to pay for the following:

1. Myself - for my care.
2. Medicare/Medicaid - for those that 'can't or won't' pay for themselves and are covered by the government.
3. Your friend - as the hospital didn't just eat the bill out of the kindness of their heart. They passed it on to the paying customers (i.e. me).

So we essentially have the same system then, unless 'single payer' was funded by something that everyone pays (including your deadbeat friend) like a sales tax or the likes (oh wait, I can't say the evil tax word....sorry).

I'm forced to pay more because your friend wouldn't pay for her own. Fuck that.

The hospital didn't eat the entire bill. A local charity picked up part of the costs of her care.

If you want to set up a charity to pay for people who can't, feel free. People who want to pay can. Post up the website here, I'll bet you get lots of donations from ATers.

 

[Engineer]

The hospital didn't eat the entire bill. A local charity picked up part of the costs of her care.

If you want to set up a charity to pay for people who can't, feel free. People who want to pay can. Post up the website here, I'll bet you get lots of donations from ATers.

It's your friend, you set it up. Otherwise, I think she should have bought her own insurance or looked for her own charity. it's not up to me to set something up for her...it's her OWN RESPONSIBILITY. If you want to donate to her, fine. I'm being forced to donate to her right now because my bills are higher because of her (and others like her).

 

[sixone]

It's your friend, you set it up. Otherwise, I think she should have bought her own insurance or looked for her own charity. it's not up to me to set something up for her...it's her OWN RESPONSIBILITY. If you want to donate to her, fine. I'm being forced to donate to her right now because my bills are higher because of her (and others like her).

Then why aren't you proposing some kind of plan that helps EVERYONE meet their own responsibilities, instead of advocating a single-payer plan that does exactly the opposite?

 

[Engineer]

Then why aren't you proposing some kind of plan that helps EVERYONE meet their own responsibilities, instead of advocating a single-payer plan that does exactly the opposite?

I am. I have changed my position (with your help) to say that you can take care of yourself. Get a better job that you can afford your coverage. Take 'personal responsibility' for yourself and if you can't, solicit a charity or seek 'financing' to make sure that you pay your potion of the bill and it won't be passed on to the rest of us.

I've done a 180...fuck single payer and Obamacare. We can call this "Pay or Pray" system. You either pay (or have paid up insurance) or pray that some charity will step up and help you. Not more of this get treatment shit (especially if you 'chose' to not have insurance) and then pass it on to the rest of us. Just think how much cheaper that $40,000 would have been had it not been stacked with all of the deadbeats throughout the hospital's life that keep getting stacked and passed on.

By the way, why does 'single payer' mean that not everyone pays? Canada has lots of GST/PST that EVERYONE pays to cover healthcare. If you buy ANYTHING, you're paying for healthcare. Well, doesn't matter.....over that and time to go the other way.

 

[alkemyst]

She had an option to buy insurance. Why should the paying customers pick up her tab (and don't be so blind to think that the hospital didn't pass that on to the paying customers including any costs involved in trying to collect the payment from her). To keep her from dying (since she couldn't pay), you (and other friends and family) could have paid the bill for her? Why didn't you?

If someone doesn't buy insurance or cannot pay for the services, should they be given treatment for whatever they come down with and have it written off?

QFT, she should have been on Medicaid. If she didn't qualify for it, she should have sold off or dialed down her budget to buy the insurance she should have had.

What happens on ObamaCare when people decide to pay the penalty for no insurance? What happens to illegals that show up as a party of 12 in an ER all complaining they are dying then the ER finds out they just have the Flu?

 

[sixone]

I am. I have changed my position (with your help) to say that you can take care of yourself. Get a better job that you can afford your coverage. Take 'personal responsibility' for yourself and if you can't, solicit a charity or seek 'financing' to make sure that you pay your potion of the bill and it won't be passed on to the rest of us.

I've done a 180...fuck single payer and Obamacare. We can call this "Pay or Pray" system. You either pay (or have paid up insurance) or pray that some charity will step up and help you. Not more of this get treatment shit (especially if you 'chose' to not have insurance) and then pass it on to the rest of us. Just think how much cheaper that $40,000 would have been had it not been stacked with all of the deadbeats throughout the hospital's life that keep getting stacked and passed on.

By the way, why does 'single payer' mean that not everyone pays? Canada has lots of GST/PST that EVERYONE pays to cover healthcare. If you buy ANYTHING, you're paying for healthcare. Well, doesn't matter.....over that and time to go the other way.

Glad I could help.

 

[Engineer]

Glad I could help.

:thumbsup:

Now make sure you get on that deadbeat friend of yours to make sure that the rest of us don't have to pay for her care. She chose to not have insurance and not pay her bill....I have no choice in the fact that the hospital adds a portion of her write off to my bill. Screw that.

Maybe you can help her too!

 

[sixone]

:thumbsup:

Now make sure you get on that deadbeat friend of yours to make sure that the rest of us don't have to pay for her care. She chose to not have insurance and not pay her bill....I have no choice in the fact that the hospital adds a portion of her write off to my bill. Screw that.

Maybe you can help her too!

The law says she has to have it next year, or pay a fine. The fine is going to be cheaper than insurance premiums, and that's more important than anything I can say to her.

If you want to send some money to pay for her coverage, I'll be happy to see that she gets it.

 

[lothar]

Yet the rest of the industrialized world has complete coverage and their people don't feel this way (your examples of how people just say "Oh, I have insurance so who cares what it costs" (paraphrased)) and on top of that, their coverage costs far less than the US per capita and covers EVERYONE!!!

Social Security is a scam/pyramid scheme and it's almost bankrupt.
Medicare is a scam/pyramid scheme and it's almost bankrupt.

Why do you want single payer and why are you assuming that the US government will run such a program properly and efficiently giving their history in running Social Security and Medicare?

The only people that will make money from single payer healthcare are the drug manufacturers, lobbyists, and the bureaucrats.

 

[compuwiz1]

Here's one for ya. Illegals walk into the hospital with everything from a cold to a woman in labor. They treat them and pass the cost on to us legals. Around here, under my present, employer paid insurance plan, if I walk into an emergency room for any reason and get lab tests, proven twice, I'm getting a $1000 bill in the mail. That is after co-pay and deductible. In both instances the total bill has been about $5000, which, in itself, is ridiculous for a 2 hour visit.
The first time I got such a bill I called the billing department to protest how such a short visit could result in such a large bill. I was simply told that those who don't have insurance or means to pay are causing us to offset these costs onto those who do. I said, well, I guess that is the penalty I pay for being born white and not having a last name like Martinez, even though I was born here and didn't sneak into the country illegally. Population here is approaching 60% hispanic. We have a huge agriculture commerce here.

After running all this through my mental computer, I've shifted my view of Obamacare. Bring it on. It might just provide for these people without these expenses being offset on me. Let's redistribute some of this wealth. I can afford a bit, so can you.

 

[mugs]

I don't have an employer. I pay for my own health insurance. The letter mentioned that my current plan would no longer be offered due to the new guidelines and that a similar plan costs 3x as much.

What's puzzling to me is that you've offered no details to support your claims. I'm sorry, I lied. It's not puzzling, I believe it is a deliberate attempt to misrepresent the facts to support a political position. Please provide proof that you are paying 3x more for similar coverage to what you had before.

 

[boomerang]

Here's one for ya. Illegals walk into the hospital with everything from a cold to a woman in labor. They treat them and pass the cost on to us legals. Around here, under my present, employer paid insurance plan, if I walk into an emergency room for any reason and get lab tests, proven twice, I'm getting a $1000 bill in the mail. That is after co-pay and deductible. In both instances the total bill has been about $5000, which, in itself, is ridiculous for a 2 hour visit.
The first time I got such a bill I called the billing department to protest how such a short visit could result in such a large bill. I was simply told that those who don't have insurance or means to pay are causing us to offset these costs onto those who do. I said, well, I guess that is the penalty I pay for being born white and not having a last name like Martinez, even though I was born here and didn't sneak into the country illegally. Population here is approaching 60% hispanic. We have a huge agriculture commerce here.

After running all this through my mental computer, I've shifted my view of Obamacare. Bring it on. It might just provide for these people without these expenses being offset on me. Let's redistribute some of this wealth. I can afford a bit, so can you.

Here's the problem. There will still be a shit ton of people without insurance and somebody is going to have to pay.

I made a post in a thread this past week asking what happens with people who are involved in the underground economy that don't file tax returns. People that will not sign up for Democare and who will not show up in an IRS database of scofflaws. Who will pay for their healthcare? Will the emergency room be required to "turn them in" if they show up? I got no answer and I genuinely wanted an answer.

We've got a thread here about bums in SF. Are they going to sign up? Are illegals going to sign up? Are drug dealers going to sign up? Are the people that break into homes to get items to sell for drugs going to sign up? Are the people who work under the table that are happy with a meager existence going to sign up? The list goes on and on and on.

Somebody is going to pay for these people when they show up in the emergency room. So pay attention to not just the premium you'll be paying under Democare but look at the change in the deductible. You're still going to get that bill for a grand.