Health insurance - A right or a privilege

[Jaskalas]

The only way to make that a reality would be for all foreign assistance to immediately come to a halt and redirect all of those funds back into our health care system to pay for our medical care. We spend billions of dollars a year in places where the people don't give a rats ass about America and I am not opposed to cutting funding to them.

What? Saving $33.5 billion won't mean a thing.
You can go stomp all over that ant if you want to, rest of us are discussing grizzly bears.

 

[flexy]

Conservatives don't have a Right to political speech in a public place without being attacked, assaulted and beaten, but lefties think they should be able to force doctors, nurses, hospitals and pharmaceutical companies to give them free healthcare. Yep, sounds like the newest crop of entitled lefty assholes.

It would come as a biiiig surprise to you, but a system with universal healthcare doesn't make a distinction between whether someone is left or right.
There is not one side which "forces" someone else to give "them" free healthcare and not someone else. Only in your messed up head. But thanks for the idea about a system where only lefties benefit from "free" healthcare. Sounds intriguing!

 

[Ajay]

The insurance industry is a powerful lobby.

Sent from my SM-G930T1 using Tapatalk

Bent on protecting their profits more than anything else. Sadly, too many go along with this, to their own detriment. The problem is too complex for insurance companies to solve themselves - especially given their proclivity to put investors first. This stupid meme of 'investors' first in America needs some serious modification, especially in healthcare, were the welfare of the nation's citizens are at stake.

 

[Younigue]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. I know many Canadians. Health Care is a given. Yes, taxes are high but I have rarely heard any of them complain about where their money goes pertaining to the health care of other Canadians... even for individuals who do little in the way of taking care of themselves. Societies are made up of all kinds and there are far too many unpredictable diseases or accidents that can occur for most Canadians to worry about someone taking advantage of the system though it is a problem and a concern. The sheer relief that comes with social medicine is worth it. I swear, if America would switch to social medicine the people would adapt quickly and eventually without stress and become a natural expectation for health care. People will of course feel disdain for those who abuse the system but they will be grateful for it when it's there for them. I seriously do not understand the irrational fear. Americans should stand up and require health care as a right. Seriously, there are many other things to concern yourselves with pertaining to where your tax dollars go, health care isn't one of them. It's truly peculiar that people get so butt hurt by the idea of a chain-smoking fat person getting the same level of health care as a fit, non-smoking person. All people make bad decisions at times, stop trying to control everything and understand that health care should be a right and pay higher taxes for the "privilege". It's just... so obvious that universal health care should be what an intelligent society should do.

 

[piasabird]

I missed that part in the constitution. What about freedom?

 

[Fenixgoon]

if you had asked me 15 years ago when i was a young whippersnapper, i would have made the analogy to car insurance.

a little older, and hopefully wiser, my argument now is that if private industry has no interests in providing a service in the interest of the public benefit, then the government should be allowed to do so. remove preexisting condition requirements? why would an insurer EVER sell a policy to someone with an expensive preexisting condition that they know they will never profit from? insurance companies are not charities, after all. and if they did sell a policy, you'd just get charged out the ass for it.

maybe if insurance companies weren't trying to hit quarterly numbers and maximize shareholder value, they'd be able to provide a greater social benefit. crazy thought, i know.

 

[Jaskalas]

I missed that part in the constitution. What about freedom?

Freedom to get sick and die? No thanks buddy, I'll take my chances with a system designed to help people.

Constitution is a starting point, not an end point. We're still able to, you know, pass laws. What, you think we're violating it somehow? Could you help me out here, I wonder which side "telling people to wither off and die" falls under? I don't remember the part of the Constitution that tells us to sit by and watch our fellow man die of simple, curable, ailments.

And if push comes to shove, WWJD? Really, tell us.

 

[ivwshane]

Freedom to get sick and die? No thanks buddy, I'll take my chances with a system designed to help people.

Constitution is a starting point, not an end point. We're still able to, you know, pass laws. What, you think we're violating it somehow? Could you help me out here, I wonder which side "telling people to wither off and die" falls under? I don't remember the part of the Constitution that tells us to sit by and watch our fellow man die of simple, curable, ailments.

And if push comes to shove, WWJD? Really, tell us.

The constitution states, multiple times, that government is to ignore the general welfare of its citizens. Now we all know the constitution doesn't mention free market or capitalism but it's pretty common knowledge that the constitution supports letting the free market handle things, it's why businesses are mentioned and protected so much in the constitution, the bill of rights, and the declaration of independence.



/s

 

[ivwshane]

One stupid question... what happens to diabetic type 1 in your country? For example in my country: He gets insulin pump for free, insulin for free, all equipment for insulin pump for free, few pens for ''just in case'' if insulin pump dies for free, needles for pens for free, all equipment for taking blood sugar for free and all equipment for measuring that sugar,all doctor visits for free, and all hospitals if he need it for free. Including emergency transport if needed. This is just example. What american get if he is broke? Dies? -.-

Well, obviously in this specific case the person deserves to die because they are a stupid fat fuck who obviously can't control his eating habits. Maybe he can get a job at a donut factory where he's samples donuts and is given health care as apart as his job.

The point being, there are plenty of solutions available to anyone.



/s

 

[ivwshane]

Which ones specifically?

Which ever ones people can afford😉

 

[ivwshane]

You can get diabetes with stomach flue, via dna and so on... But the answer you gave me is enough for me to see why american health system is so screwed. You are talking about stuff, which you don't have a clue... If that person is stupid fat fuck what the hell are you? amoeba?

Nope! You can only get diabetes from eating horribly. I'm an expert because I read something somewhere.




/s

 

[ivwshane]

So if that person doesn't have money dies. Damn guys you got promise land over there.

You wouldn't get it because you are a forrunner and forrunners don't know what real freedom is. Freedom is the right to die because you can't afford medical treatment.

What communistic, ISIS loving country are you from anyway?



/s

 

[ivwshane]

And cause you guys live in such a freedom, NSA will start tracking me, cause I wrote we are terrorists...

Nah, they only track Americans.

 

[ivwshane]

The country of american first not wanna be lady. We are communists, terrorists, we operate our patients with tools for car repair and usually we put 5 patients in bed for one person.

I didn't ask for forrunner, but for lets say example: homeless person.

Well, nobody likes homeless people, they smell, they drink all the time, and they are lazy. So if they get sick, welp, that only helps to keep our homeless population down.




/s

 

[TheVrolok]

One stupid question... what happens to diabetic type 1 in your country? For example in my country: He gets insulin pump for free, insulin for free, all equipment for insulin pump for free, few pens for ''just in case'' if insulin pump dies for free, needles for pens for free, all equipment for taking blood sugar for free and all equipment for measuring that sugar,all doctor visits for free, and all hospitals if he need it for free. Including emergency transport if needed. This is just example. What american get if he is broke? Dies? -.-

Eventually, yes, but that's only after having spending a few years having strokes, heart attacks, and likely amputations as a result of the wildly uncontrolled diabetes they couldn't afford to control.

Mind you, once they end up on dialysis they'll eventually get government sponsored insurance which will cost taxpayers dearly as they'll be utilizing large amounts of resources in those last few unpleasant years of life.

And all probably before the age of 40 or 50. 'Murika! Freedom!

 

[fskimospy]

One stupid question... what happens to diabetic type 1 in your country? For example in my country: He gets insulin pump for free, insulin for free, all equipment for insulin pump for free, few pens for ''just in case'' if insulin pump dies for free, needles for pens for free, all equipment for taking blood sugar for free and all equipment for measuring that sugar,all doctor visits for free, and all hospitals if he need it for free. Including emergency transport if needed. This is just example. What american get if he is broke? Dies? -.-

Currently? If you don't have insurance through your employer and you're low enough income you can get treatment for free, basically. If you're of moderate income you're probably looking at several thousand dollars a year out of pocket to pay for what you need. Not great, but doable.

Under the bill currently being considered by Republicans it means for all intents and purposes a return to the old system, meaning you're fucked. This would allow insurers in lots of cases to discriminate based on pre-existing conditions (which diabetes definitely is), meaning that your insurance could be say, $10,000 a month or whatever else they wanted to charge. It also ends a cap on lifetime insurance payout limits, something that diabetics can absolutely run into. That means once you've made claims for X dollars your insurance won't pay anymore for the rest of your life and you're screwed.

This, among many other reasons, is why Republicans are furiously scrambling to rush this through.

 

[Jaskalas]

And that fskimospy is why I stand for Healthcare "as a right".
If our people want it, there is but one solution.

 

[Svnla]

We (as a nation) have to do something about cost because we can not go on with the current status quo. We are getting older, fatter, living longer and with more health care issues => require more care => more cost.

Senior citizens made up 13 percent of the U.S. population but accounted for 34 percent of healthcare-related spending in 2010, a report from the U.S. Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services shows. In 2010, healthcare spending amounted to $18,424 per person for people aged 65 and older – about five times as much as per-person spending for children ($3,628) and triple what was spent on working-age individuals ($6,125).

https://journalistsresource.org/studies/government/health-care/elderly-medical-spending-medicare

 

[highland145]

Take our current system, apply medicare subsidy to everyone. It's still multi payer, still for profit, but consumer costs are heavily reduced. I know a person with 3x heart surgeries, more than half a million dollars last year... only had to pay $1,200. Quite a deal. Where as I'd pay more than that to get 3 moles removed.

Our system desperately needs to pool and soak costs on the highest level, or people simply remain without healthcare.

Sorry for the delay. Got sidetracked.

Hell, just allow people to pay what the insurance contracted rate would be.


It may already be being discussed but looks like the Rs are taking the ACA turd and adding special sauce. Glad they addressed the actual health care costs.🙄

 

[highland145]

https://ourworldindata.org/the-link-between-life-expectancy-and-health-spending-us-focus

Tons of information but this is a chunk of what you were asking:

Country Life exectancy Health Spending per capita
United States 78.94 9,024.21 $
Switzerland 82.85 6,786.57 $
Norway 81.75 6,081.00 $
Netherlands 81.30 5,276.60 $
Germany 80.84 5,119.21 $
Sweden 81.96 5,065.16 $
Ireland 81.15 5,001.32 $
Austria 81.34 4,896.00 $
Denmark 80.55 4,857.03 $
Belgium 80.59 4,522.04 $
Canada 81.96 4,495.69 $
Luxembourg 82.21 4,478.97 $
France 82.37 4,366.99 $
Australia 82.25 4,206.85 $
Japan 83.59 4,152.37 $
United Kingdom 81.06 3,971.39 $
Iceland 82.06 3,896.93 $
Finland 81.13 3,871.39 $
New Zealand 81.40 3,537.26 $
Italy 82.69 3,206.83 $
Spain 83.08 3,053.07 $
Slovenia 80.52 2,598.91 $

I don't know if that's a fair comparison because we know our costs are effed up.

 

[werepossum]

It's a commodity. It costs money. A right is something you have inherently, by God or by nature.

This, exactly. A right costs others nothing, though protecting that right may cost money. But I don't think it's appropriate to call health care a privilege either - that implies that it's acceptable if some people don't have it. Call it an essential service like water or electricity that government should seek to make sure everyone wanting can have at a reasonable cost.

 

[highland145]

One stupid question... what happens to diabetic type 1 in your country? For example in my country: He gets insulin pump for free, insulin for free, all equipment for insulin pump for free, few pens for ''just in case'' if insulin pump dies for free, needles for pens for free, all equipment for taking blood sugar for free and all equipment for measuring that sugar,all doctor visits for free, and all hospitals if he need it for free. Including emergency transport if needed. This is just example. What american get if he is broke? Dies? -.-

Rudeguy, bless his banned heart, was getting raped for his son's costs.

 

[interchange]

Disclaimer: I have not read all the contents of this thread.

I do not believe that access to healthcare is a universal human right. I do believe that universal access to healthcare is a good societal virtue and thus am in favor of some form of universal healthcare in America.

Separately, I would like to point out that America has universal access to healthcare. By law (EMTALA), no ED can turn away service for any individual who presents to them regardless of complaint* or ability to pay. Bankruptcy laws are also such that anyone doing so can have opportunity to financially recover to some degree.

I do not mean to imply that America has equitable access to healthcare. This is far from the truth.

My societal preference is that we continue to provide some version of universal access to healthcare. A true alternative to that would be abolishing EMTALA. Otherwise, to my eye we unequivocally have a universal healthcare system. An expensive, bloated, inequitable one, but universal nonetheless. Therefore, I think we ought to see our task as making universal access to healthcare cheaper, more efficient, and more equitable.

*Under EMTALA, a hospital can refuse to provide services to a patient based on their medical condition, but to do so they must rule out the existence of an emergency medical condition, and this is done by usual patient assessment protocols. Thus, if you walk into an ED for a papercut, you will (eventually) be seen by a clinician to hear your story and verify that, in fact, your papercut isn't an emergency.

 

[Jaskalas]

It's a commodity. It costs money. A right is something you have inherently, by God or by nature.

I was not born with a gun. I did not receive one for free. They cost money. Yet my right to own one is still protected.
Healthcare should be a right as in... not denied, as in widely available and affordable.
We say "it is a right" to push for positive change, not to conclude or rest a case in some legal language.

 

[fskimospy]

Disclaimer: I have not read all the contents of this thread.

I do not believe that access to healthcare is a universal human right. I do believe that universal access to healthcare is a good societal virtue and thus am in favor of some form of universal healthcare in America.

Separately, I would like to point out that America has universal access to healthcare. By law (EMTALA), no ED can turn away service for any individual who presents to them regardless of complaint* or ability to pay. Bankruptcy laws are also such that anyone doing so can have opportunity to financially recover to some degree.

I do not mean to imply that America has equitable access to healthcare. This is far from the truth.

My societal preference is that we continue to provide some version of universal access to healthcare. A true alternative to that would be abolishing EMTALA. Otherwise, to my eye we unequivocally have a universal healthcare system. An expensive, bloated, inequitable one, but universal nonetheless. Therefore, I think we ought to see our task as making universal access to healthcare cheaper, more efficient, and more equitable.

*Under EMTALA, a hospital can refuse to provide services to a patient based on their medical condition, but to do so they must rule out the existence of an emergency medical condition, and this is done by usual patient assessment protocols. Thus, if you walk into an ED for a papercut, you will (eventually) be seen by a clinician to hear your story and verify that, in fact, your papercut isn't an emergency.

This is true in a sense as I've repeatedly said in the past that we have universal health care of a sort, just the dumbest kind imaginable. That's not entirely true though as while you're totally right that emergency conditions are required to be managed this works quite poorly for the treatment of chronic conditions such as diabetes. Sure you can go to the emergency room when your foot falls off or whatever but you can't always access the treatment necessary to keep your foot attached to begin with.