Health insurance - A right or a privilege

[Hayabusa Rider]

There is no right of insurance. We talked about enumerated rights being limited such speech and that is not guaranteed either. Now is it preferable to have access? Yes, but there is no right. It's not hard, it is a matter of understanding what is, what is not, and what we would like to have.

 

[fskimospy]

There is no right of insurance. We talked about enumerated rights being limited such speech and that is not guaranteed either. Now is it preferable to have access? Yes, but there is no right. It's not hard, it is a matter of understanding what is, what is not, and what we would like to have.

Rights are whatever we decide they are because they are entirely a human construct. We have no inherent right to life, liberty, speech, or anything else.

Health care is a right if we as a society decide it is.

 

[highland145]

I don't get this. Can you explain what is with Rudeguy? -.-

I watched this documentary years ago, is situation still the same in states?
https://documentarystorm.com/sicko/

One more stupid question. I remember one movie with Denzel Washington. Gonna google this one...Found it. It's from 2002, but I would like to know if that kinda situation is pure BS or this could actually happen in america?
John Q (2002)
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0251160/

Rude was a long time member.

Moore...sicko? Definitely.

Could JohnQ not get the heart transplant paid for by his insurance? Probably. They are for profit here. Could he take the hospital hostage? Probably. There are more guns in America that people.

 

[Mandres]

This, exactly. A right costs others nothing, though protecting that right may cost money. But I don't think it's appropriate to call health care a privilege either - that implies that it's acceptable if some people don't have it. Call it an essential service like water or electricity that government should seek to make sure everyone wanting can have at a reasonable cost.

I feel exactly the same - I think it's the only logical conclusion. I would add that as the world's wealthiest nation there's really no excuse for any citizen not to receive these essential services.

 

[highland145]

But I was googling little yesterday and seems like states pay up up to 70% more then other countries for Prozac for example. Maybe there is a problem of high costs of medical stuff in states.

This, this, this. For profit companies and for profit politicians.

IIRC, the Qvar the Dr wanted me to take was $200 here. $65 in Canada. Thankfully my lungs finally recovered from the pneumonia last year.

 

[Ajay]

Rights are whatever we decide they are because they are entirely a human construct. We have no inherent right to life, liberty, speech, or anything else.

Health care is a right if we as a society decide it is.

The framers of the constitution thought differently, but I get what you are saying. So, I call it a privilege, because of the US constitution; but, as an advanced nation, there is no excuse for not promoting this privilege to a right - which we can do by enacting laws within the confines of the constitution.

Further more, as the nation with the highest GDP in the world - WTF is our problem?? If anyone can afford a national healthcare system, it ought to be us. It is a travesty that we do not have a system of more complete coverage and nationally negotiated costs. Apparently, we have the most Ornery populace in the world - and a group of politicians from a particular party, who rely far too much on money as a lever for political power, to enact laws beneficial to their broader base of constituents.

 

[agent00f]

Disclaimer: I have not read all the contents of this thread.

I do not believe that access to healthcare is a universal human right. I do believe that universal access to healthcare is a good societal virtue and thus am in favor of some form of universal healthcare in America.

Separately, I would like to point out that America has universal access to healthcare. By law (EMTALA), no ED can turn away service for any individual who presents to them regardless of complaint* or ability to pay. Bankruptcy laws are also such that anyone doing so can have opportunity to financially recover to some degree.

I do not mean to imply that America has equitable access to healthcare. This is far from the truth.

My societal preference is that we continue to provide some version of universal access to healthcare. A true alternative to that would be abolishing EMTALA. Otherwise, to my eye we unequivocally have a universal healthcare system. An expensive, bloated, inequitable one, but universal nonetheless. Therefore, I think we ought to see our task as making universal access to healthcare cheaper, more efficient, and more equitable.

*Under EMTALA, a hospital can refuse to provide services to a patient based on their medical condition, but to do so they must rule out the existence of an emergency medical condition, and this is done by usual patient assessment protocols. Thus, if you walk into an ED for a papercut, you will (eventually) be seen by a clinician to hear your story and verify that, in fact, your papercut isn't an emergency.

"Right" is just vernacular for fundamental societal virtue.

That is called socialism and is what the Soviet Union specialized in. Too many people try to paint it in a positive light when it really serves to demoralize the most productive members of society. If I bust my ass for what I have I alone am entitled to the fruits of my labor. Why should I work like that so some able bodied couch potato can have a share of what I've produced for myself?

In a socialist society that might be true but not in a capitalist society it certainly isn't true. From a human rights standpoint sure we all want to see people taken care of, however, in reality many people want something for nothing and are not making positive contributions to the greater good.

I have very little sympathy for an able bodied person who wants to live off public assistance rather than getting a job and working for what they have. Being productive is also a biblical principle and Paul states that if we don't work we don't eat so to see so many professing Christians living off the public coffers makes me want to puke.

The only way to make that a reality would be for all foreign assistance to immediately come to a halt and redirect all of those funds back into our health care system to pay for our medical care. We spend billions of dollars a year in places where the people don't give a rats ass about America and I am not opposed to cutting funding to them. We should also stop our global military expansion which is nothing short of a modern Rome as they sought to rule the known world.

This is why that steinbeck quote needed to be quite ironically changed from "temporarily embarrassed capitalists" to "temporarily embarrassed millionaires", when too many of the labor class couldn't understand it meant them.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Rights are whatever we decide they are because they are entirely a human construct. We have no inherent right to life, liberty, speech, or anything else.

Health care is a right if we as a society decide it is.

They are a construct but at this time there is no right. There could be, but not for now.

 

[highland145]

husky,

Moore earned his estimated $50 million net worth by making documentaries such as "Bowling For Columbine" and "Fahrenheit 911,"

He's not on your side.

 

[highland145]

The point is is that he's no better than our elected officials when it comes to HC. He gets top tier service and top tier care. Rats asses are not given by Moore.

 

[highland145]

Yea I know that, but thank god I'm not from states. I get ''free health care'' and much more in my country.

I'm pretty sure we're 2nd cousins. I'll be staying a while.

Not vetting or verifying any of this story but it is pretty humorous.
http://www.newsofinterest.tv/politics/book_summaries/daisnaid/daisnaid_moore.php

 

[ch33zw1z]

Lol 50 million and he's a hypocrite, the people that are the problem aren't worth a measly 50 mil

 

[TheVrolok]

Back to the topic:why america doesn't adapt Canadian system?

Fundamentally different social values.

 

[highland145]

I know it that Moore is hypocrite. Can't be nothing else with money he has. Lets be realistic But fun fact about what he films. He talked few times about my country and it was true what he sad. For example that we got free college or university programs. But he did find nice way to get lot's of money, I must admit that.
qoute from your link: It has been shown that Moore had invested in major pharmaceutical companies such as Pfizer, Merck, and Genzyme through his foundation despite publicly railing against such companies.

Guess Moore knows where money is in America

And our politicians. But we have thread after thread (me included) where we argue who's side did what.

Both sides are effing every American.

So, 40" TV at your place? Surround sound? Netflix? I can ship a few cases of toilet paper. Pics of sister?

 

[highland145]

Lol 50 million and he's a hypocrite, the people that are the problem aren't worth a measly 50 mil

but I'll play.

True, eugenics ftw? Bless Sanger...

 

[highland145]

Your crazy

Is she that ugly or do you not need toilet paper?

"You're"


Seriously, when my wife leaves me because I'm an alien, I'm coming to visit you.

 

[highland145]

+1
definitely see my previous post.

 

[highland145]

Your wife loves you, she ain't leaving you

21 years and she's stuck. I'll claim spousal abuse otherwise. I am the down trodden mass.


So no sis pics?

And I'll give you one...

 

[highland145]

My 'half' sister is married. And probably older then you if your wife is only 21

That's my other wife.

We got it like that round here. :colbert;


And like any sane may knows, Solomon was insane. Regardless of him being king, 1K wives.....WTF?


And I'm about Perk's age.

 

[highland145]

Perk's age is how much?
Solomon need to have nerves of steel...

Omnipotent. Just ask him.

Soloman's balls, adamantium all the way.

 

[highland145]

Gonna take my dog out. You decided to troll me today,so I'm running away from anandtech At least I don't need a wallet with me if something happens to me...If i accidently brake my leg or something...

That's not true. I am curious about your experiences and system. Ours is, obviously, broken.

I'm also a smart ass so questions about pics, Perk and me being your 2nd cousin are normal in my world. Well, maybe not pics of Perk.

If you break a leg, can I have your stuff or your dog? What kind?

RSW