Headlight restore kits

[ino uno soweno]

Black,
This picture of the GT4 show the rear bumper and above bumper panel, ( below taillights) and wing have already been very quick sanded just to remove the major white flake to make it a bit more drivable,
Please also note, the hatch door flaking, parallel clear coat splitting / flaking top rear quarter, to the driver’s side door,
Some flaking on the roof channel,
Would you agree the GT4 was continually parked with it’s rear facing direct sunlight,
………………


The next picture “from the opposite direction “
…………………


Shows no sanding marks or flaking on the front bar, which I will point out is in good condition, actually a beautiful clear deep coat, front guard has finger nail flake size where the guard meets the bonnet, I think they closed the bonnet on some tools, chip the paint to the metal ? but absolutely UV damage, no flaking of top coat on that guard, only slight accident damage at the rear of the wheel arch, and damage directly above wheel, caused by wheel when the car was very lowered, no flaking from sun or accident damage, please note in this picture the door has no flaking, the quarter has no flaking like the other side,
………………………


Next pic shows other mudguad also with some damage from the wheel from being too low, no flaking on this guard, clear coat is good, plenty of deep shine,
Facts , the rear of the car was exposed to direct sun light, bumper and upper panel flaking badly,
Fact,The front of the car was not exposed to same direct sunlight,
Fact, the clear coat flaked over the area of the turbo, as seen in the picture, was caused by the turbo, I never said JCH’s engine lid was going to flake, hello.
Now what you 2 have got wrong , well lets say this is only the first part of what you guys have got wrong is, go back to the start of the thread, and look for the words,

TIE-COAT, AND INTERCOAT PRIMER, AND or LINK COAT FAILED DUE TO 2 DIFFERENT sources OF HEAT,CAUSING THE GOOD CLEAR COAT TO CRACK THEN SPLIT, AND FLAKE,
The link coat caused the problem, ok, no fault of the clear coat, ok If I had applied the clear coat on this car I would not have needed a link coat, ok, well if you take the time to look at the front bar and guards, they are great, like you say, your clear coats are great, I believe you, a professional expensive clear coats are good, I agree, and add my experience, will last longer still without a non-speciation link coat, and a coat of new finish which contains no wax,

Back soon, you have a nice day.ok.

exOH, the above pics were after I removed the bad flaky top coat, the flaky bonnet pics was taken before that, and here is a recent pic,

 

[pandemonium]

ino,uno,soweno., why must you polarize everyone? :hmm:

...

I just did the 3M restore kit to mine a couple of weeks ago. It took me about 4 hours to do both my headlights (they weren't that bad at all, just a little foggy in certain spots and barely any discoloring). My headlights weren't exactly easy though due to their convex/concave shape ('06 Acura RSX). Sanded with P500 to uniform (about 10 minutes each), then with P800 to uniform (about 15 minutes each), then used the wet P3000 (about an hour each). Then applied 2 coats of the polisher to it. They were absolutely pristine when I finished.

My room-mate did his about 3 months ago and they're already foggy. He's nowhere near as thorough as I am though. I think he did them both in about ~45 minutes but his headlights are uniformly shaped, so no annoying challenges there.

We'll see how well mine will last with the level of attention given. 😛

 

[JCH13]

As a scientist/engineer I run series of experiments to isolate the causes of phenomena. Pretty much every single issue or cause is one simple mechanism that causes a wide variety of issues.

What I conclude from the GT4 pics you have posted is that sunlight/UV exposure is primarily to blame. It is one single cause that elegantly explains all the spots of clear coat flaking and their different levels of severity. Each surface that has started to flake is facing upwards, where it will catch the most sun. The door sides are flaking a lot less than the hood because about half the time they are in the shadow of the roof. The hood is flaking the most because it is rarely protected by the shadow of any other part of the vehicle. I would even wager that it was parked with it's nose facing south (presuming you are in the northern hemisphere).

Can you see how that theory explains everything neatly and cleanly?

If heat were the driving factor then the only explanation would be that all the horizontal surfaces degraded because of coincidence. I don't buy that. The evidence is too consistent and coincidence is not reliable.

I'm not saying heat might not have played a factor. It is certainly possible that it was a secondary cause. But the evidence is clearly screaming: "clear coat flaking is proportional to sunlight exposure." Identifying this sort of trend is how I hold my own with PhD engineers 30+years my senior.

I would be interested to see the flaking on the rear deck and roof if you have any good before pictures. That might be quite illuminating.

 

[ino uno soweno]

ino,uno,soweno., why must you polarize everyone? :hmm:

...

I just did the 3M restore kit to mine a couple of weeks ago. It took me about 4 hours to do both my headlights (they weren't that bad at all, just a little foggy in certain spots and barely any discoloring). My headlights weren't exactly easy though due to their convex/concave shape ('06 Acura RSX). Sanded with P500 to uniform (about 10 minutes each), then with P800 to uniform (about 15 minutes each), then used the wet P3000 (about an hour each). Then applied 2 coats of the polisher to it. They were absolutely pristine when I finished.

My room-mate did his about 3 months ago and they're already foggy. He's nowhere near as thorough as I am though. I think he did them both in about ~45 minutes but his headlights are uniformly shaped, so no annoying challenges there.

We'll see how well mine will last with the level of attention given. 😛

SORRY pandamonium, I will try not to be a prob, ,

So, you are a couple of weeks into the honeymoon stage, :biggrin:

Thanks for posting,

You make a good point in that there is no short cuts, thorough,

I checked out the 3m kit, but I can not find the chemical specs on the final polish, I wonder if there is wax in it, ??.

I am thinking your room mate put a wax on his, The 3 months and surface oxidizing or foggy appears usually suggest a wax, I will keep looking for the polish specs,
http://forums.anandtech.com/member.php?u=320855
If it is wax you and kitatech are on the same honey moon, he has made it to 5 months, waxing his headlights every 2 months, please note a very good clue in the wax he is using, it is a wax "cleaner", and my line of thought is if wax goes foggy in 3 months, it would be better use a cleaner /wax, in the hope each 2 months polish would clean and remove the previous oxidized wax layer,( which is most probably 2/3 oxidized ) while laying a single thickness layer of fresh wax, ??,
He has it working so there must be a clue in the wax cleaner, FW1 wax and cleaning polish, I checked that chem specs too, there is wax in it,

Sorry just thinking to myself,

One suggestion for your room mate might be to see if he can buff polish his foggy lights with a microfiber cloth, not rub it, just a long light buff, and see it comes clear, ??. try and buff the surface oxidized foggy layer off, ???.

06 Acura RSX, 7 years old, 20 mins plus 30 mins plus 2 hours, 3 hours and 50 mins, is thorough, and a good work out, haha,

I do hear what you say with the convex and concave lense, with the small diameter disc, that is not easy, I cheat like hell and use 6" sander to sand though p180 to p2000, and a 8" soft buff pad, I quick buffed the blue Suburu head lights in under 30 secs each, I call it speed buffing, :biggrin:.

I am putting together a 6" soft foam buff pad for a drill, i think that will work. better and quicker than a 3" dia sand /buff combination,

And I have another car coming tomorrow, pretty bad over all oxidized clear coat, Toyota Camry about 90 model I think, I am pretty sure we might get a bonnet restored by sanding off the oxidied clear coat, should be very interesting, I will get some before pictures of the headlights too,

I think the main problem with cleaning foggy or just dirty and sratches lens is there are quite a few ways to do it, I really can't put a number on the ways, plus I think the amounts of oxidization varies so much that is invisable to our eyes, and what size disc buffer, there is just so many variables to restoring lens that it is hard to find a way that works on all situations,

Hope you post some pictures for us, and keep is updated with any observations you make along the way,

Good luck,

 

[ino uno soweno]

OH, I applied two coats of nu-finish to the “ front bumper bar” on top of the good clear coat too get that shine, last pic.
Black,
Lets not forget the rear bumper, as seen here has 2 coats of Nu-finish applied, I could park this car out the back like the Caldina for 10 years, and only dust and buff it with a wet or dry microfiber cloth, to get the dust that settles around here, no drama, just buff the bird shit and bat shit off,and still have a mirror shine like the Caldina,
………….


That is just one thing I could do with the car, I could use it, quick wash it with a long hair broom at the car wash, there buff it wet and sudsy with microfiber, high pressure clean the suds off and leather shammy it dry right there, with another coat of a few years along, it would then stay the same for a good 10 years, (no 2 monthly waxes), I just rely on my 17 years of experience,
Or I could apply nu-finish clear coat with a small rag, every 2 years, and hand wash with a microfiber cloth, or dry dust and buff, it would last forever, judging from my 17 years of experience,
Oh, I have the first best picture of the stuffed up clear coat $10 spray can Honda head and tail lights, , I showed you before,
And here is the first picture of the stuffed up, 10 dollar spray clear, please "zoom" in on the picture and see the small patch ( red arrows )of where someone learned on the wet or not yet dry clear coat , or maybe they palmed it and painted on the oil left on the lens , the picture and light do not show the size of the patch, or 2 other small patches, I will figure out a way to show where the clear coat has been touched while wet,
……..



Back soon,

 

[ino uno soweno]

JCH13

We can leave your above post untill later,

This is interesting.

I would be interested to see the flaking on the rear deck and roof if you have any good before pictures. That might be quite illuminating.

Your Right, there is a little mystery there, and the rear deck still a work in progress, and is a different type of flaking than the rest of the car, so I will get a or some pics asap, as you wish,

 

[waggy]

lol interesting thread.

things i learned

1) ino,uno, soweno is a jackass. has little to no debate skills and is willing to twist what others say to make his point.

2) heh i can save my headlights on my old taurus and can keep the nice new ones on my van in good shape! thanks jch13!

i thought the kind of bullshit inunowhatever is doing was against the rules of the garage?

 

[JCH13]

lol interesting thread.

things i learned

1) ino,uno, soweno is a jackass. has little to no debate skills and is willing to twist what others say to make his point.

2) heh i can save my headlights on my old taurus and can keep the nice new ones on my van in good shape! thanks jch13!

i thought the kind of bullshit inunowhatever is doing was against the rules of the garage?

Happy to help waggy! Glad you got some useful information from this thread.

 

[ino uno soweno]

JCH13

Just a question, please.

I note you do not mention the " link coat ", to which I refer to,

Can I hear your thoughts on that,

phil.

 

[JCH13]

I have no idea what you mean when you say "link coat." I have never heard the term before you mentioned it. I have never heard of someone using a coat of anything between paint/lens and clear coat. Nor can I find anything through google.

Can you please explain what you mean by "link coat" using specific terminology?

 

[ino uno soweno]

JCH,


​

​

Please let first say my reference to POR15 is not the link coat that I have found on the GT4, I have not used POR15 link coat, or Tie coat, although I use their other products, I am happy,​

I know paint suppliers have other brands, almost all paint manufactures make a linking coat of some form, you just have to ask,​

The GT4 has been sprayed in a Urethane base colour coat, ( red)​

Then you sprayed with link or tie coat, which can be anything even Polyurethane,​

Then the Urethane clear coat is applied,​

So what would your thoughts, if you spray a heat sensitive gum like link coat in-between your base colour and your clear coat, ?​

I , like you, paint cars the way you do, and I recommend never use a tie-coat, or link coat,​

The only experience I have with a link coats is from the other end, removing failing link coat,​

I would not use a link, and recommend not using it, it is not needed,​

Only other point of interest is if you use it, it is mostly still a free world, you should note, the times you need to wait before applying the next coat, if think that being main course for link coat failure,​

More interesting is the pics of the hatch you requested,



​

 

[JCH13]

About link/tie coats... after reading up on tie-coats' product descriptions on the internet (more specifically they're called "adhesion promoters") I've come to the conclusion that they're sprayed on the base material (metal, plastic, etc.), NOT in between paint and clear coat. If you have any source that shows otherwise, do share. Otherwise it seems as if you've just made some very poor assumptions and/or have VERY out of date information.

Adhesion promoter wouldn't be needed between a polyurethane paint and polyurethane clear-coat anyway, they have similar chemical compositions and would chemically link just fine. The only time to possibly use adhesion promoter (that I found on the internet) is if the base paint was never cleared but is still fresh (say 24 hours since spraying), then adhesion promoter should be mixed directly with the clear coat. In my experience with adhesion promoters they are simply aggressive solvents that will evaporate away eventually, leaving no residual chemicals to affect the clear or base coat.

It's worth noting that POR15 is an anti-rust coating that is extremely UV sensitive. It needs paint on top of it prevent it from being rapidly broken down. This is nowhere near the same thing as putting clear on top of paint.

About the hatch pictures... I see more oxidation on horizontal surfaces. Though the pictures don't show the whole rear end, and aren't very clear.

If you're ready to admit that clear-coating is an appropriate solution for headlights we might have something real to talk about. If you have some evidence, i.e. a source other than yourself, for any of the concerns you're coming up with, we might have something real to talk about. I still fail to see any validity to the concerns you seem to be raising.

And please, please, don't make another post with centered text. It's nearly impossible to read through what you're trying to say.

 

[ino uno soweno]

JCH



You said,
If you're ready to admit that clear-coating is an appropriate solution for headlights


1.are saying "another" appropriate solution , ??.my answer, is yes


2,are saying "only or best appropriate solution", ,??. my answer, is NO.


And depending on your answer, please clarify, r you still talking to me, yes, no.?


Sorry about the,


“And please, please, don't make another post with centered text. It's nearly impossible to read through what you're trying to say”.


Long story, but I really do try,🙂

 

[JCH13]

JCH



You said,
If you're ready to admit that clear-coating is an appropriate solution for headlights


1.are saying "another" appropriate solution , ??.my answer, is yes


2,are saying "only or best appropriate solution", ,??. my answer, is NO.


And depending on your answer, please clarify, r you still talking to me, yes, no.?


Sorry about the,


“And please, please, don't make another post with centered text. It's nearly impossible to read through what you're trying to say”.


Long story, but I really do try,🙂

The fact that you have asked that question shows me that you haven't bothered to read and/or understand what I, and black2na, have posted.

If you have any real concerns with any real supporting evidence that is not your own prejudice, please bring that to my attention. Otherwise, I am tired of dealing with your idiosyncrasis, particularly how you refuse to acknowledge any evidence contrary to your opinions.

 

[ino uno soweno]

The fact that you have asked that question shows me that you haven't bothered to read and/or understand what I, and black2na, have posted.

If you have any real concerns with any real supporting evidence that is not your own prejudice, please bring that to my attention. Otherwise, I am tired of dealing with your idiosyncrasis, particularly how you refuse to acknowledge any evidence contrary to your opinions.

Sorry JCH, still a bit too sick and busy to get my head around your stuff, have you got any more easy reading for me please, 🙂

 

[JCH13]

Sorry JCH, still a bit too sick and busy to get my head around your stuff, have you got any more easy reading for me please, 🙂

Nope, no more than the numerous links I have already posted.

 

[ino uno soweno]

Ok, we can start at the beginning, where I said, “ [FONT=&quot]J, my apologies , I am just really flu sick, back as soon as possible[/FONT][FONT=&amp]”[/FONT][FONT=&quot],[/FONT]
I am mystified at your agenda concerning your following post and link, who are you trying to mislead, ??. I THINK YOU willing to twist what others say to make YOUR point.

Originally Posted by [FONT=&quot]JCH13[/FONT]
I'll make this as simple as possible for you ino.

These are how common plastics react to UV light: http://www.cityplastics.com.au/uv_resistance.html

Headlight lenses are polycarbonate. Polycarbonate is not UV stable and will yellow and/or oxidize in about a year. Obviously this time depends on local conditions.

Clear coats are acrylic or urethane. Urethane (or polyurethane) clear coats or paints typically contain acrylic. Acrylic is 'one of the most inherently UV resistant materials available' on top of being one of the most optically transparent plastics available.

Would you prefer to have plain polycarbonate plastic completely exposed? Or would you rather have the polycarbonate covered by a protective layer of acrylic?
I am not arguing with you, I am just telling you, you are a wanker, with respect to any one 30 years older then you, they are just trying get away from you, because you are miss leading and wonder off subject, ,
Please note, the above is totally misleading, 12 months UV reference was to STANDARD SHEET polycarbonate, has no UV resistance, by not including, polycarbonate[FONT=&quot] UV resistant grades are available. Polycarbonate Mar Resistant grades are also UV stable.[/FONT]


As we know the devil is in the details,


So let’s deal with the facts, ,


We are talking headlight “””””””” lenses”””””””””, which are actually and completely Constructed of “THERMOPLASTIC POLYMERS”, and generally do not and are not UV effected for 6-8 years in a normal environment .


High impact Thermoplastic based Acrylic / Polycarbonate,
[FONT=&quot].Also incorporating Mar Resistant grades ( mar being the reference to scratch and impact resistance), Mar Resistant grades are also UV “””stable”””.[/FONT]


Acrylic/polycarbonate/plastic can crack, bend and break but it does not shatter.


Key words and best clue there is, Thermoplastics,


(Plastics group B) “ Thermoplastics” also known as “Thermoplasts”.
{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{[New guys should note and not be confused with the other group known as ,
( group A, )“Thermosets, also known as [FONT=&quot]Thermosetting plastics,}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Key words “ Acrylic/Polycarbonate, [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]aka, “””””””””””””” Polymethyl methacrylates-Acrylic,”””””””””””” [/FONT]‘one of the
“””””””””””””””most naturally UV resistant man made monomers available' “””””””””
Please note, UV stable infers “ not affected by UV,
“””””””””””as well as being one of the most optically transparent plastics available.””””””

Lenses “ are not made” of any standard grade Polycarbonate sheeting, and who has ever heard of a modern day car plastic head light lens that turns[FONT=&quot] yellow and become hazy after about 1 year of being made,, derr. Who, ?? Honda, ?, Ford,? Toyota, ? [/FONT]

Without going into extreme details about how fascinating, it is that and how linked and unlicked molecules of Urea formaldehyde=Urea’s and Polymethyl methacrylates Acrylics behave and exist , HEADLIGHTS lenses are basic plastics Chemistry, physics and Mechanics, [FONT=&quot][/FONT]


Headlight lenses oxidize and stone chip on the face surface, and the face surface only, from new, but if the surface been oxidized all the way through,, or ¾ , they are gone , eaten through, I have never seen lenses “eaten through” , but other type of plastic sheeting are often seen to be “eaten through,” faded ,opaque, dull never eaten through, ,

JCH,

I will not discuss anything about plastics unless you allow me to send you my 300 pages of my “ know your plastic’s”, lecture notes, so we can be talking about facts on the same page,

We all know plastic head lights generally get a bit fuzzy after 6-8 years after new, only on the exposed face, check for yourself,


Also= for your information,


ABS / styrene / butyrate / PVC/ Polypropylene/ Acrylonitrile Butadiene Styrene. Ect. Are used For the back sides and top and bottoms of head light lenses , usually the chrome plated reflector components,,

You say,

1, I would even wager that it was parked with it's nose facing south (presuming you are in the northern hemisphere). No wrong. BUT STILL FUNNY, HAHA, YOU PRESUME WRONG ,HAHA


2."clear coat flaking is proportional to sunlight exposure.---------" No wrong “.


3.The door sides, ----------- NO, wrong, only one door ,


4.that I found on the internet, you only had a short time on the net to gather misleading babble, about interlocking coats and additives, misleading and not on subject,


5, You said the bonnet suffered from flaking, Wrong, with all respect, I am not arguing with you I am just telling you and everyone the area shown, in the picture showed the only flaking area over the turbo area, the bonnet is 4’and ½ ‘, long , and 4’and ½ ‘ wide, so a surface area 4’ and ½’ by 4’and ½’ = 20’and ¼’ square, flaking is 1’long x 4’ and ½’ wide over the turbo, roughly specking 1/5 of the total surface area of the bonnet, I already told you, no flaking on the front bar, no flaking on the guards ,no flaking on the front end, except over r the turbo, you are using wrong non-factual information, wrong again, ,


So, that is just 5 points on this subject you had grossly wrong, so your serious of experiments are based on incorrect information,
You continually stir bits of irrelevant facts and general knowledge, with your own babble and claim you are the expert on the subject matter,


If you think I have been holding something back about your $10 Urethane spray can, please note I have been checking my facts, and been in direct contact with manufactures in the USA, and suppliers in Australia, while I have been sick,

For example,

It's worth noting that POR15 is an anti-rust coating that is extremely UV sensitive. It needs paint on top of it prevent it from being rapidly broken down. This is nowhere near the same thing as putting clear on top of paint.


It is clear your knowledge of POR15 paints is limited, because you have no experience with these paints,


Your reference to being rapidly broken down, shows you ignorance, you should have spent a few more minutes on the net, because I see you are misleading the other reads,


However, the fact is I am very experienced POR15 rust proofing paint for over 7 years, and in fact I have and used thousands of dollars of this product, it is true value for money,
However, this thread is focused on headlight lens , not the oxidizing and flaking rust solutions, so I will post relevant facts shown in pictures to prove your statement to be false and miss leading, ,













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[JCH13]

Well, there you have it folks. Conclusive proof in a well-articulated argument that I have no idea about anything, at all, and that I am a total wanker. Everything I have posted, as well as multiple first-hand accounts from other users, has been proven completely wrong.

Clearly I should start using NuFinish for all of my future wanking needs.

 

[FuzzyDunlop]

Well, there you have it folks. Conclusive proof in a well-articulated argument that I have no idea about anything, at all, and that I am a total wanker.

Like we needed proof to figure that out.




😀. J/k

♥♥

This part is my favorite. He clearly has you pinned down with this one.

It is clear your knowledge of POR15 paints is limited, because you have no experience with these paints,

This thread is silly and is Fuzzydunlop approved.

 

[ino uno soweno]

So now we agree there is more then ONE option TO PROTECT headlight lens,

I will just write a list of the pro's / cons of 5 basic options from my expereience,

If either of you 2 want to jump in here, and list 5 basic options please do, 😉

I am sure you can type faster then me,

Back soon,

 

[Vdubchaos]

Jesus...what happened here?

Can someone give me some cliff notes? Sounds like redoing 3M kit and applying a clear coat is the way to go?


I did sealant last time I redid mine and it didn't help at all.....

 

[Black2na]

Clifnote for V dub

Ino: nu finish nu finish nufinish
JCH: clear is a viable option for people who won't upkeep

Ino: twist words to suit him nu finish nu finish JCH is a wanker

Black2na: ino your an asshole. Agree polishing works first hand accounts on clear being better

Ino : black your the asshole (unrelated word twisting)

Random people: ino is a dick who twist things.

JCH: complicated smart people shit

Ino: your wrong I'm sick with the flu reply soon


/thread

 

[pandemonium]

Lol, that about sums it up. 😵

 

[Fritzo]

Like we needed proof to figure that out.




😀. J/k

♥♥

This part is my favorite. He clearly has you pinned down with this one.


This thread is silly and is Fuzzydunlop approved.

I don't want to read this whole thread, but is this one of those situations where a bunch of people have done something once, declared themselves experts, and are now fighting over their findings? I love those 😀

Anyway, back on topic, I haven't had good results with headlight restore kits unless I use a rotary polisher. There does come a point where you need to buy a new lens though.

 

[ino uno soweno]

I don't want to read this whole thread, but is this one of those situations where a bunch of people have done something once, declared themselves experts, and are now fighting over their findings? I love those 😀

Anyway, back on topic, I haven't had good results with headlight restore kits unless I use a rotary polisher. There does come a point where you need to buy a new lens though.

😎 me too,

Anyway, back on topic, Check back in a few days, I hope to answer a few reason why it is so hard to get these kits to work, and 5 options for your consideration.
🙂