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He pulls a gun on you... would you have killed him?

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ahenkel said:
The goal should be to end the threat. That's what he did. No reason to kill.
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Run that scenario again and it looks exactly the same until the guy behind the counter tries to grab his arm misses and gets shot in the head.

I would shoot the guy in an instant, he chose to walk in there with a gun.
 
If you have a gun pointed at someone there is intent to kill or cause great bodily harm. So I will meet force with force, including deadly force if I am able to do so. Most times it is better to comply with the demands when you are at a disadvantage in a situation like this though.
 
Puppies04 said:
Run that scenario again and it looks exactly the same until the guy behind the counter tries to grab his arm misses and gets shot in the head.

I would shoot the guy in an instant, he chose to walk in there with a gun.
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Yup.

Very lucky this guy was a amateur and not serious. Didn't step back, avoid the deflection, or attempt to initially fight back or anything. Just kinda said "sigh oh ok fine..." at the first sign of resistance even before there was a gun in his face. A real thug wouldn't have been so nonchalant as this noob gunman.
 
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I would simply pull that tom cruise maneuver where he snatches the gun out of someones hand and flips it around to point it towards the bad guy.
 
Hypothetical question:

What is the best manner to handle this if the perp was further away -- outside of the reach of the shop keeper? He would probably just have to hand over the money, right?

On a side note, this guy really seems to keep his cool. I really need to get more involved with martial arts or some other kind of sparring. Even in social situations where I speak up, my adrenaline pumps. I would probably die of a heart attack if someone held me up.
 
I would have stipulated that his survival depended on the gun being dropped immediately. Anything else other then the sound of it hitting the floor would have resulted in his alcohol soaked brain getting a complimentary air conditioning install.

I would have held him at gun point until the cops showed rather than let him exit, gun in hand. I'm surprised the teller let him leave.
 
Saint Nick said:
Hypothetical question:

What is the best manner to handle this if the perp was further away -- outside of the reach of the shop keeper? He would probably just have to hand over the money, right?

On a side note, this guy really seems to keep his cool. I really need to get more involved with martial arts or some other kind of sparring. Even in social situations where I speak up, my adrenaline pumps. I would probably die of a heart attack if someone held me up.
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How far are you from AZ? Heh.

Best thing you can do when starting is jump in and get hit good a few times. Then after the initial rush the very first time you realize it really ain't no thing and it gets a ton easier from there on out. Exposure and repetition.
 
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kage69 said:
I would have stipulated that his survival depended on the gun being dropped immediately. Anything else other then the sound of it hitting the floor would have resulted in his alcohol soaked brain getting a complimentary air conditioning install.

I would have held him at gun point until the cops showed rather than let him exit, gun in hand. I'm surprised the teller let him leave.
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I carry heavy duty zip ties as part of my vehicle emergency kits. If I were in an extremely high risk job I would probably keep some behind the counter.
 
Saint Nick said:
Hypothetical question:

What is the best manner to handle this if the perp was further away -- outside of the reach of the shop keeper? He would probably just have to hand over the money, right?

On a side note, this guy really seems to keep his cool. I really need to get more involved with martial arts or some other kind of sparring. Even in social situations where I speak up, my adrenaline pumps. I would probably die of a heart attack if someone held me up.
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Draw your weapon and begin firing as soon as the muzzle is roughly on line with the target, bringing it up to your natural shooting stance while continuing to fire. The person with the holstered gun usually has the advantage (particularly if it's concealed) due to the reaction time and frame of mind of the person holding them at gunpoint.
 
Bottom line is it just depends on the person robbing you and their intentions. Which is why its never a bad idea to have the ability to defend yourself should they actually intended to kill you.
 
I'm hearing a good deal of thoughtful rationalization and self-reflection. It sounds like most people are answering the question as if they had the presence of mind and the skills to do what the store guy did. People in that circumstance would do one of three things- duck and cower behind the counter, duck and try to get away or take direct action.

The vast majority of people will do one of the first two. That includes people on this forum.

The small minority that will take direct action will unfortunately not likely have the situation end the way it did on the video. They will be shot and wounded or killed. Or they may by very luck and good at the same time and take out the perp.

if you choose to take direct action in a situation where deadly force is involved, never point a gun at someone without pulling the trigger.
 
mistercrabby said:
I'm hearing a good deal of thoughtful rationalization and self-reflection. It sounds like most people are answering the question as if they had the presence of mind and the skills to do what the store guy did. People in that circumstance would do one of three things- duck and cower behind the counter, duck and try to get away or take direct action.

The vast majority of people will do one of the first two. That includes people on this forum.

The small minority that will take direct action will unfortunately not likely have the situation end the way it did on the video. They will be shot and wounded or killed. Or they may by very luck and good at the same time and take out the perp.

if you choose to take direct action in a situation where deadly force is involved, never point a gun at someone without pulling the trigger.
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what?

If I can brandish and de-escalate the situation, I damn sure will. If my gun clears leather and the guy drops his gun or points it away, I'm still supposed to shoot him?

The fuck is wrong with people?
 
Once I started down the fight instead of flight reflex, I doubt there would have been conscience thought to NOT shoot. I think I would have assumed the guy was about ready to fire at me, my left hand *might* have thought about deflecting the arm but my right was drawing the weapon, aiming, and firing.

I don't think the thug would have been given a chance by me, I would have shot.
 
rudeguy said:
what?

If I can brandish and de-escalate the situation, I damn sure will. If my gun clears leather and the guy drops his gun or points it away, I'm still supposed to shoot him?

The fuck is wrong with people?
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From a purely legal perspective, it's possible for you to get charged with brandishing. Some of the gun nuts would rather kill a man than get charged with a crime.

On a personal level I completely agree. If the person drops their weapon, lays on the floor, you should not shoot them.
 
rudeguy said:
what?

If I can brandish and de-escalate the situation, I damn sure will. If my gun clears leather and the guy drops his gun or points it away, I'm still supposed to shoot him?

The fuck is wrong with people?
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There's a huge difference between dropping his gun and pointing it away. The first, he becomes unarmed and a much lower threat, the second he is still armed and can still kill you.
 
JTsyo said:
Not his job. Cops should bring this guy in before he causes any more trouble. If they don't the failing is on them not the clerk.
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In many ways I disagree. How many people will the person kill before he is caught? He certainly learned a lot from this little lesson, I doubt he'll try it again unprepared.


I equate it to the silent rape victim syndrome.. IE rape victim who doesn't speak up because she doesn't want her name ruined, and doesn't report it. Then goes into deep depression wondering how many other women have been victimized purely due to her not reporting the rape.


I think citizens have somewhat of a duty to protect society. If you are involved in a situation like this your safety comes first, but preventing the person from attacking someone else shouldn't be far down on the list.

I do not think everybody should cowboy up and start policing the streets, but in a situation like this one the clerk should've demanded the guy get on the ground, not tell him to get the F out the store. Just my opinion thought.
 
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