HDTV vs. Plasma. What is better and why?

[Dari]

what does LCos stand for?

and who's making a visual display from that? links?

 

[NewSc2]

Originally posted by: Amused
You know, my main problem with TV makers today is the universal red push and torch mode they introduce on all production TVs so they stand out on a showroom floor.

Sometimes I think the TV makers are in cahoots with the ISF to make money on calibrations. It really pisses me off that any TV I buy needs to be professionally calibrated to achieve neutral color and grayscale balance.

I can understand that convergence, geometry and focus can get hosed a bit in shipping. I'm willing to deal with that. But this color thing and setting TVs up for massive burn in problems at the factory MUST be corrected.

The average user doesn't know the difference between red push/grayscale balance and likes high contrast. If one manufacturer puts out a darker set with neutral colors (spending the extra money) it won't stand out at Best Buy, which means not only lower sales but higher production costs. Manufacturers nowadays just care about profits.

 

[spidey07]

liquid crystal on silicon...

http://www.toshiba.com/tacp/tv/current/57HLX82.html


nice site for DLP

dlp.com

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: NewSc2

Originally posted by: Amused
You know, my main problem with TV makers today is the universal red push and torch mode they introduce on all production TVs so they stand out on a showroom floor.

Sometimes I think the TV makers are in cahoots with the ISF to make money on calibrations. It really pisses me off that any TV I buy needs to be professionally calibrated to achieve neutral color and grayscale balance.

I can understand that convergence, geometry and focus can get hosed a bit in shipping. I'm willing to deal with that. But this color thing and setting TVs up for massive burn in problems at the factory MUST be corrected.

The average user doesn't know the difference between red push/grayscale balance and likes high contrast. If one manufacturer puts out a darker set with neutral colors (spending the extra money) it won't stand out at Best Buy, which means not only lower sales but higher production costs. Manufacturers nowadays just care about profits.

Hey, that's fine. All that means is I will not buy a floor model TV.

However, it would cost them pennies a set to add a feature that resets the color and grey scale balalnce to neutral (6500K). Hell, my computer monitor does this.

Also, try living in a small town, and getting a qualified ISF calibration.

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: spidey07
liquid crystal on silicon...

http://www.toshiba.com/tacp/tv/current/57HLX82.html


nice site for DLP

dlp.com

damn, for that price can it offer the advantages of crt (bright colors, true black, ture native HDTV 1920X1080) and plasma (relatively light-weight)?

 

[spidey07]

Dari,

I haven't seen one as it is very new. First reports from CES say it is incredible.

ps - CRT based RPTVs can do at most 1200 lines so really 1200x1080i, direct view sets are even worse at 800x1080i.

 

[Eug]

I have a 34" widescreen direct-view progressive scan CRT. Toshiba CW34XC2.

I got it because:

1) It has significantly better image quality than the 40" rear-projection CRTs I've seen, and it's much brighter and with (obviously) a much better viewing angle. The benefit of the 40" is a bigger screen at the same price as what I paid for my 34". This may be sacrilege, but I actually like watching TV with the lights on sometimes.
2) It's much cheaper than plasma, often with better video quality. It still costs about 2X as much as normal 4:3 TVs of similar size though.
3) A 34" CRT is better suited to my small living room.

I've checked out a couple of LCD TVs too and so far the ones I've seen have picture quality way worse than my CRT. I wouldn't even consider it. Perhaps some of the higher end ones are OK, but I haven't seen them.

Caveats:
My geometry is good but not perfect.
Blacks are OK, but could be better.
I had to get the Toshiba guy in to calibrate the angle. The image seemed off kilter by 0.5% or something.
My first component input is ISF calibrated to my Panasonic RP91 progressive scan DVD player. My second component input is calibrated to a 1080i colour generator machine he had, but I don't have a 1080i source. I am using that input with a Panasonic DMR-E30 DVD recorder. (The DVD recorder is also progressive scan for playback, but image quality is nowhere near as good as the Panasonic RP91.)
Despite the calibration, I still have some red push it seems.
The calibrator says the true resolution is probably less than 1000 lines - probably 900+, which it seems is par for the course for a direct view CRT.

By the way, I'm starting to think that TV shows often are calibrated to compensate for red push. With many movies my post-calibration image is sooooooooooooooooo much better than pre-calibration. Very clear and great colours. However, with TV, while the image clarity is better, the colours are often actually worse.

I haven't looked into a DLP or LCoS.

But basically my point is that if you think that plasma is Da B0mb because it always has the best image quality then you haven't seen enough TVs. All I can say for sure about plasma is they look uber cool hanging on the wall, and the image quality is better than low and mid-range CRTs.

 

[RayH]

Check out Projector Central for lcd and dlp reviews.

For more info check out the
AVS Forums.

I know pics are a poor way of showing picture quality but here are some anyway from my brother's setup which uses the hot budget dlp projector from last year (NEC LT150) which he got for under $2k.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: RayH

I know pics are a poor way of showing picture quality but here are some anyway from my brother's setup which uses the hot budget dlp projector from last year (NEC LT150) which he got for under $2k.

Is that his apartment dining room?

 

[RayH]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: RayH

I know pics are a poor way of showing picture quality but here are some anyway from my brother's setup which uses the hot budget dlp projector from last year (NEC LT150) which he got for under $2k.

Is that his apartment dining room?

Yup. The larger 22' pictures are from a studio at work.

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: Eug
I have a 34" widescreen direct-view progressive scan CRT. Toshiba CW34XC2.

I got it because:

1) It has significantly better image quality than the 40" rear-projection CRTs I've seen, and it's much brighter and with (obviously) a much better viewing angle. The benefit of the 40" is a bigger screen at the same price as what I paid for my 34". This may be sacrilege, but I actually like watching TV with the lights on sometimes.
2) It's much cheaper than plasma, often with better video quality. It still costs about 2X as much as normal 4:3 TVs of similar size though.
3) A 34" CRT is better suited to my small living room.

I've checked out a couple of LCD TVs too and so far the ones I've seen have picture quality way worse than my CRT. I wouldn't even consider it. Perhaps some of the higher end ones are OK, but I haven't seen them.

Caveats:
My geometry is good but not perfect.
Blacks are OK, but could be better.
I had to get the Toshiba guy in to calibrate the angle. The image seemed off kilter by 0.5% or something.
My first component input is ISF calibrated to my Panasonic RP91 progressive scan DVD player. My second component input is calibrated to a 1080i colour generator machine he had, but I don't have a 1080i source. I am using that input with a Panasonic DMR-E30 DVD recorder. (The DVD recorder is also progressive scan for playback, but image quality is nowhere near as good as the Panasonic RP91.)
Despite the calibration, I still have some red push it seems.
The calibrator says the true resolution is probably less than 1000 lines - probably 900+, which it seems is par for the course for a direct view CRT.

By the way, I'm starting to think that TV shows often are calibrated to compensate for red push. With many movies my post-calibration image is sooooooooooooooooo much better than pre-calibration. Very clear and great colours. However, with TV, while the image clarity is better, the colours are often actually worse.

I haven't looked into a DLP or LCoS.

But basically my point is that if you think that plasma is Da B0mb because it always has the best image quality then you haven't seen enough TVs. All I can say for sure about plasma is they look uber cool hanging on the wall, and the image quality is better than low and mid-range CRTs.

why should anyone have to go through all that trouble after dropping a couple of Gs on a new TV. Why can't the TV come pre-calibrated?

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: Eug
I have a 34" widescreen direct-view progressive scan CRT. Toshiba CW34XC2.

I got it because:

1) It has significantly better image quality than the 40" rear-projection CRTs I've seen, and it's much brighter and with (obviously) a much better viewing angle. The benefit of the 40" is a bigger screen at the same price as what I paid for my 34". This may be sacrilege, but I actually like watching TV with the lights on sometimes.
2) It's much cheaper than plasma, often with better video quality. It still costs about 2X as much as normal 4:3 TVs of similar size though.
3) A 34" CRT is better suited to my small living room.

I've checked out a couple of LCD TVs too and so far the ones I've seen have picture quality way worse than my CRT. I wouldn't even consider it. Perhaps some of the higher end ones are OK, but I haven't seen them.

Caveats:
My geometry is good but not perfect.
Blacks are OK, but could be better.
I had to get the Toshiba guy in to calibrate the angle. The image seemed off kilter by 0.5% or something.
My first component input is ISF calibrated to my Panasonic RP91 progressive scan DVD player. My second component input is calibrated to a 1080i colour generator machine he had, but I don't have a 1080i source. I am using that input with a Panasonic DMR-E30 DVD recorder. (The DVD recorder is also progressive scan for playback, but image quality is nowhere near as good as the Panasonic RP91.)
Despite the calibration, I still have some red push it seems.
The calibrator says the true resolution is probably less than 1000 lines - probably 900+, which it seems is par for the course for a direct view CRT.

By the way, I'm starting to think that TV shows often are calibrated to compensate for red push. With many movies my post-calibration image is sooooooooooooooooo much better than pre-calibration. Very clear and great colours. However, with TV, while the image clarity is better, the colours are often actually worse.

I haven't looked into a DLP or LCoS.

But basically my point is that if you think that plasma is Da B0mb because it always has the best image quality then you haven't seen enough TVs. All I can say for sure about plasma is they look uber cool hanging on the wall, and the image quality is better than low and mid-range CRTs.

why should anyone have to go through all that trouble after dropping a couple of Gs on a new TV. Why can't the TV come pre-calibrated?

For a few reasons:

First, things like geometry and convergence get out of whack in shipping.

Second, manufacturers intentionally skew the color balance and over drive the white levels to make their TVs stand out on the show room floor.

Third is an overall lack of quality control.

 

[Koing]

the Zenith I'm *pretty* sure is a Plasma and not a 60" LCD.

The biggest LCD is a Samsung 40" of about 2 months ago in England. Unless they released one bigger I don't know...........

No worries of HDTV for me as I live in England and will not get HDTV. I have Sky Digital and everything will change to digital in the next 10-15 years or so.

Also people in England have small houses compared to people in the states. The RPTV are not popular as the houses are smaller and will not accomodate such a screen. Will definately hit up a 50" screen when I move out in my house sometime

 

[arod]

Originally posted by: RayH

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: RayH I know pics are a poor way of showing picture quality but here are some anyway from my brother's setup which uses the hot budget dlp projector from last year (NEC LT150) which he got for under $2k.

Is that his apartment dining room?

Yup. The larger 22' pictures are from a studio at work.

Wow, hes got a nice setup. Mine is in my sig and I decided to go with a cheaper model (panasonic ae100). The pictires really are better than they look on the webpage but my camera sucks.... I also am a college student and plan on getting on of the new YAMAHA DPX-1000 after I graduate college in about 2 years. Cant afford an 6k projector on a college students budget.