HDMI to be replaced, good riddance

[Modelworks]

I have hated HDMI since its inception when engineers argued it shouldn't be done because of several issues with the connector format and the cables and were outvoted by marketing.

Thankfully it is about to be replaced. You will soon be able to use Cat5 cables you probably already own to carry, video/sound, usb, ethernet, power over that one cable. You can already convert hdmi to cat5 but this will add more functionality to that.


http://www.thinq.co.uk/2010/7/1/tv-business-kisses-hdmi-goodbye/

HDMI's short-lived reign over the cable racks could soon be over, thanks to a new usurper that combines several connections into a single, standard network cable.
Designed by a coalition of consumer electronics manufacturers, including Sony, Samsung, LG and Valens, HDBaseT promises to not only carry video and audio signals, but also provide a network connection, a USB signal and even electricity using a single cable.
You won't even need to buy a fancy new cable to use it. According to the HDBaseT specification chart, you can "use existing network wiring" with a standard Cat5e/6 LAN cable and an RJ-45 connector. The HDBaseT Alliance, which is made up of the aforementioned electronics companies, has just finalised version 1.0 of the spec, and says it will be available for licensing within the second half of this year.
The Alliance predicts that we'll start seeing the first HDBaseT creeping into the shops later this year, but says the bigger wave of adoption will occur later in 2011.
In terms of benefits over other connectors, HDBaseT currently boasts a maximum cable length of 100m, compared with just a few metres with some HDMI cables and 15m for a DisplayPort cable. Impressively, it can also carry up to 100W of charging power, which the alliance says is enough to power an entire TV from another device.
Currently, the specification only allows for a 100Mb/sec Ethernet connection, but the alliance claims HDBaseT will be scalable up to 1Gb/sec in the future. Similarly, HDBaseT can currently playback video at up to 10.2Gb/sec, but it's theoretically scalable up to 20Gb/sec.
Even with its current specification, however, it already offers the same bandwidth as HDMI 1.4 and the alliance says it's more than capable of carrying a 1080p video signal, as well as stereoscopic 3D.
Explaining the need to get everything into a single, universal cable, the HDBaseT Alliance points out that the new connection "enables a network of sources - such as digital video recorders (DVR), Blu-ray disc players, game, PCs and mobile devices - to be connected directly to displays in multiple locations."
The Alliance's chairman Ariel Sobelman is confident HDBaseT will quickly take over as the next TV connection standard. "HDBaseT technology is poised to become the unrivaled next-generation home networking transport," he said, adding that it was needed "to meet the ever-changing trends in the digital media market."
Keep a look-out for gold-plated ethernet cables costing £200 in rip-off electronics shops in the near future.

 

[Gibson486]

Geee....I would like to thank them for making HDMI short lived. How many peopel have bought HDTV's in the past 2 years?

 

[Naeeldar]

Geee....I would like to thank them for making HDMI short lived. How many peopel have bought HDTV's in the past 2 years?

It will take awhile to really become mainstream. Figure 5 years or so before this really picks up steam.

What I don't get is how the OP can say they hated HDMI but like this. Maybe HDMI was not as good but it's a huge god send over component cables.

 

[kalrith]

Well, unless the HDMI connectors in my TV, HTPC, PS3, and receiver all stop working because of the new cable tech, this won't affect me for several years. I won't get a new display until I move and have a dedicated projector room (>5 years), and I won't get a new source device until the next generation consoles come out and drop to a reasonable price (probably >5 years).

 

[Modelworks]

What I don't get is how the OP can say they hated HDMI but like this. Maybe HDMI was not as good but it's a huge god send over component cables.

I was involved with some of the engineers that were coming up with the new cable format for HDTV. We wanted to just reuse DVI, it existed, it worked. Audio would be carried by optical and coax as it has always been. People could then route it however they liked without worrying about specialized audio gear. Marketing said that consumers wouldn't know how to make two connections and that putting it all in one was better.

We also did not like the HDMI connector itself. It puts a lot of stress on the connector because the cable has to be well shielded . Those connectors right now are a major part of repairs done in service centers. One engineer commented that it was like hanging from a ledge with one hand, it may work, but for how long ?

Marketing wanted something that looked like USB and was just plug in and use. We wanted DVI with a thumbscrew one each side so the cable wouldn't stress the connectors. Marketing decided that would be too complex for consumers.

At least with this the connector the cables are easier to use and it will cut down on repairs from damaged sockets. It also extends the range into the 100ft area without anything else but the cable.

 

[ChAoTiCpInOy]

What about Displayport?

 

[Naeeldar]

I was involved with some of the engineers that were coming up with the new cable format for HDTV. We wanted to just reuse DVI, it existed, it worked. Audio would be carried by optical and coax as it has always been. People could then route it however they liked without worrying about specialized audio gear. Marketing said that consumers wouldn't know how to make two connections and that putting it all in one was better.

We also did not like the HDMI connector itself. It puts a lot of stress on the connector because the cable has to be well shielded . Those connectors right now are a major part of repairs done in service centers. One engineer commented that it was like hanging from a ledge with one hand, it may work, but for how long ?

Marketing wanted something that looked like USB and was just plug in and use. We wanted DVI with a thumbscrew one each side so the cable wouldn't stress the connectors. Marketing decided that would be too complex for consumers.

At least with this the connector the cables are easier to use and it will cut down on repairs from damaged sockets. It also extends the range into the 100ft area without anything else but the cable.

Well I can understand the connector piece. That said Marketing was rigth in one sense. I 100% prefer HDMI over DVI + Optical. Especially with as many components going into my receiver as I have.

Honestly HDMI is one of the best upgrades I've seen in ages in this sector.

 

[vi edit]

We also did not like the HDMI connector itself. It puts a lot of stress on the connector because the cable has to be well shielded . Those connectors right now are a major part of repairs done in service centers. One engineer commented that it was like hanging from a ledge with one hand, it may work, but for how long ?

That's one of my major complaints. It's just way too small of a connector for the weight/rigidity of the jacket & cables. It really doesn't take too much brain power to figure out that the leverage it puts on the connecting point is far too severe. Plus it's so freaking overpriced that people are buying shorter cables than they really should and putting even more stress on that connecting point.

Just a horrible ideal all around.

Cat5e is the shit...has been the shit...and will continue to be the shit for years to come. It is one of the most versatile wiring products around. Phone. Network. Power. Video. Ect. Plus it's easy to work with and dirt cheap.

Sad that we all had to put up with a half ass stopgap solution before the "right way" to do things finally got momentum.

 

[slashbinslashbash]

Well I can understand the connector piece. That said Marketing was rigth in one sense. I 100% prefer HDMI over DVI + Optical. Especially with as many components going into my receiver as I have.

Honestly HDMI is one of the best upgrades I've seen in ages in this sector.

Agreed. As someone who has had receivers with composite video + stereo L/R audio (3 connections per source), S-video + L/R audio (same), component video + optical audio (4 connections per source! And they don't even line up with each other! The optical is way over on the other side from the video!) HDMI finally achieved what IMO is the holy grail: All signals over a single cable. I don't yet have an HDMI-equipped receiver, but when I do, it's gonna be the end of SO much frustration with that rats-nest of cables!

I don't see how anybody can make an engineering argument for having the audio and video signals carried over separate cables. It's a no-brainer, quite simply.

I can understand the issue of the forces of heavy cables causing the connections to break where they are mounted on the PCB. That sucks, but the only cable I know of that doesn't have that issue is Apple's MagSafe. I don't see how Cat5 cables are any better. I hate Cat5! The stupid plastic snap-latch things always break, but even when they're not broken, they can be hard as hell to get undone correctly.

 

[sdifox]

So, I was correct in not upgrading my pro/pro 😛

 

[darkswordsman17]

Agreed. As someone who has had receivers with composite video + stereo L/R audio (3 connections per source), S-video + L/R audio (same), component video + optical audio (4 connections per source! And they don't even line up with each other! The optical is way over on the other side from the video!) HDMI finally achieved what IMO is the holy grail: All signals over a single cable. I don't yet have an HDMI-equipped receiver, but when I do, it's gonna be the end of SO much frustration with that rats-nest of cables!

I don't see how anybody can make an engineering argument for having the audio and video signals carried over separate cables. It's a no-brainer, quite simply.

I can understand the issue of the forces of heavy cables causing the connections to break where they are mounted on the PCB. That sucks, but the only cable I know of that doesn't have that issue is Apple's MagSafe. I don't see how Cat5 cables are any better. I hate Cat5! The stupid plastic snap-latch things always break, but even when they're not broken, they can be hard as hell to get undone correctly.

Yeah, I'm not sure what's with the criticism.

Agree on Cat5 not being any better as far as the connector goes. Has anyone actually had an issue with HMDI connectors breaking? I don't think I've even heard of any. I've personally had plenty of Cat5 cables break at the connector, so I don't see how it would be an improvement. Optical was a terrible connector.

The only good I see of this is that it's seemingly moving to making things cable independent. With most content now being digital, there's nothing preventing you from sending it in whatever manner works, just so long as the software can make sure things work like it should. The problem though is this is very likely going to cause issues for the average consumer hooking things up that aren't compatible or need more help on the software side of things. This could easily make things more expensive for the consumer just from the standpoint that many people will need someone with more technical know-how to get things working properly.

HDMI was great from the standpoint that it was well adopted by pretty much everyone. We'll only be able to wish for that once wireless transmission gets pushed.

I'm not saying it was perfect, but it was likely the best we've ever had for audio/video overall.

 

[Spicedaddy]

Well I can understand the connector piece. That said Marketing was rigth in one sense. I 100% prefer HDMI over DVI + Optical. Especially with as many components going into my receiver as I have.

Honestly HDMI is one of the best upgrades I've seen in ages in this sector.

100% agree.

 

[vi edit]

Agree on Cat5 not being any better as far as the connector goes. Has anyone actually had an issue with HMDI connectors breaking? I don't think I've even heard of any. I've personally had plenty of Cat5 cables break at the connector, so I don't see how it would be an improvement. Optical was a terrible connector.

The only thing I've ever had break with a cat5 connection is the little clip on the RJ45 jacket that keeps it in place. I've never had the ethernet port break. And that's with almost 15 years of messing around with RJ45 connectors in PC's, hubs, switches, routers, patch panels, ect.

With HDMI it's the internal connection inside the device itself that is prone to breaking. Onkyo in particular has had horrible issues with it. Part of it is due to excessive heat weakinging the connection, but it's also in part due to the weight of the HDMI cable pulling down on it.

And as far as it being a disservice to consumers...not as much as you think. Many newer homes already have Cat5e wired in them. You've got a built in distribution hub already. Now you just need devices to catch up.

 

[RebateMonger]

A friend is still using my RCA 52" front projection TV that I bought in 1982. Is this new stuff going to be compatible? 🙂

Let's just say she's not an "early adopter" of new technology.

 

[ChaoZ]

What's from with hdmi aside from the drm bs?

 

[apostle83]

What type of bandwidth differences are we talking about between the three standards?

 

[sdifox]

Main problem with HDMI is it tends to break the socket. Cable or connector breaking is easy to fix, just replace the cable. Fuck up the socket and you have a real problem. Due to the resistance to implement stress relief on the socket, you have this problem.

 

[Sp12]

Where does displayport fit in all this, because I just so happen to love displayport.

 

[Exterous]

It will take awhile to really become mainstream. Figure 5 years or so before this really picks up steam.

What I don't get is how the OP can say they hated HDMI but like this. Maybe HDMI was not as good but it's a huge god send over component cables.

Ugh:
-Impossible to self terminate. Want custom lengths? Tough Sh*t
-Difficult to adapt to CAT5/6 for long runs
-Constantly changing standards requiring new cables
-No latching/locking mechanism. This leads to all sorts of issues especially when the cable maker/source/destination maker uses cheap connectors. If they are cheap the connector just plops out. I would rather deal with broken RJ45 connectors any day than this
-Bulk/weight of the cable. It's hard to find well made cables that turn easily adding additional strain to the connections and near impossible to do sharp turns without special adapters

As someone who had to hookup a lot of HDMI cables and network cables I can tell you that I would rather deal with CAT cables any day of the week than HDMI

Here is a great write up on the new cables

http://www.audioholics.com/news/industry-news/hdmi-dead-hdbaset

RIP HDMI - you will not be missed

 

[dfuze]

RIP HDMI - you will not be missed

It doesn't deserve to be in "peace", may it perish a painful death :awe:

I'm looking forward to the switch, but won't be replacing my stuff for it.

 

[mmntech]

What's from with hdmi aside from the drm bs?

Overpriced cables? Thank Monster(Price) Cable for that. ^_^

There's nothing wrong with HDMI. It's just DVI with a different connector and audio pass through. One cable was a welcome innovation IMO. Especially if you want to wall mount. God, could you imagine doing that will all the cable spaghetti.

 

[Modelworks]

I don't see how anybody can make an engineering argument for having the audio and video signals carried over separate cables. It's a no-brainer, quite simply.

If you want to see why engineers did not want to put them in the same signal look at the thousands of people posting every week on the internet asking how they can hook up their PS3, Bluray, pc , audio from their tv, to a receiver . We were even willing to accept a separate wire internally on the hdmi cable as long as the video and audio remained separate. Having the audio not be encoded with the video stream would have allowed people to use what audio devices they wanted. Instead marketing and the MPAA folks stepped in and wanted to dumb it down for consumers and the MPAA insisted it be protected along with the video content. So you get this series of TMDS transmitters that break the DVI standard by adding audio to the stream while not doing anything to improve upon it. HDMI should have been called DVI (now with audio)

HDBaseT at least innovated. They got rid of the parallel transmission of TMDS and made the new standard serial, similar to SATA. It caries more and is less susceptible to crosstalk. Still no separate audio but at least the cables are easier to work with.

 

[Modelworks]

Where does displayport fit in all this, because I just so happen to love displayport.

Display port was never intended to be a home entertainment product. It is solely for the pc world and really wouldn't fit in with this side of things.

 

[Modelworks]

Yeah, I'm not sure what's with the criticism.

Agree on Cat5 not being any better as far as the connector goes. Has anyone actually had an issue with HMDI connectors breaking?

It is a huge issue for manufacturers. Google HDMI port saver. Those devices exist because of the problem.

he problem though is this is very likely going to cause issues for the average consumer hooking things up that aren't compatible or need more help on the software side of things.

They already thought of this. In Cat5 networking it only uses two pairs . Theytakes advantage of that by keeping them as ethernet so that if someone happens to plug the network cable into the new port it will not harm anything, it just will not work for the video portion.

 

[Exterous]

There's nothing wrong with HDMI. It's just DVI with a different connector and audio pass through. One cable was a welcome innovation IMO. Especially if you want to wall mount. God, could you imagine doing that will all the cable spaghetti.

There are plenty of people out there that would argue that point. While one cable should be a welcome way of doing things there are two ways of doing it. The wrong way -> HDMI or what looks to be the right way -> HDbaseT