HDMI cable scam.

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Martimus

Diamond Member
Apr 24, 2007
4,488
152
106
For HDMI the difference between an unshielded cable and a shielded one would be minute. For AV cables, or COAX, or anything with heavily multiplexed signals, the shielding will help quite a bit. Luckily most new interfaces take EMI into account much more than the older interfaces, so it isn't really an issue unless you have heavy EMI, a very long cable, or are using an older heavily multiplexed signal that is very susceptible to interference.
 

OCNewbie

Diamond Member
Jul 18, 2000
7,603
24
81
Nice video, hopefully the people who need this info end up watching it before making the big $$$ mistake =)
 

kylebisme

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2000
9,396
0
0
Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
I won't try to defend Monster cable pricies . But! That test was not Apple to Apple.

First of all I may be mistaken . But I don't recall an audio test performed.

Second The differant length cables is an issue. I would like to see test run Cheap againt quality using the same length as Monster Cable in the test. Not saying to buy Monster . But quality on legth should be considered. $200+ for hook ups lol.
You know how you can send a video file over all but the most crappy network connection and not loose any quaility at all when doing so? Dgitial video and audio connections like HDMI are exactly the same in that respect.
 

tcsenter

Lifer
Sep 7, 2001
17,961
94
91
Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
And don't forget about printer ink and toner. Same principal applies. You can get a decent laser printer these days for about 100 bucks, even less. But the toner costs about 60.00 a pop WITHOUT the drum unit. And Inkjet printers are a dime a dozen these days, but a set of inkjet cartridges (black, Cyan, Yellow, Magenta) can cost almost as much as the printer, and they don't last very long!
Bad comparisons. There is a difference between the OEM and third-party inks, though much less so with laser toner. While third-party stuff is sufficient for casual printing where really dark grey is good enough for black, the difference is readily observable for high-quality graphics, text, line art, and photo printing on better paper stock.

Beyond the print results, I've had utter crap luck with third-party cartridges and refills developing nozzles that dry, clog, sputter, or just plain leak (I've bought them for Canon, Epson, and HP printers). Its a good thing they cost 1/3 as much because I go through twice as many. And I'm still not sure how much I should adjust the net savings of using them for having a leaky cartridge sling black ink all over the inside of my Epson Stylus. Twice.
 

taisingera

Golden Member
Dec 27, 2005
1,138
35
91
I get all my cables online. 6' DVI for $8, 6' Belkin component $25 and 6' HDMI for $17. Even if the Monster cables were better, I can't justify spending $100+ on a cable for seeing something on screen a bit clearer.
 

Keysplayr

Elite Member
Jan 16, 2003
21,209
50
91
Originally posted by: tcsenter
Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
And don't forget about printer ink and toner. Same principal applies. You can get a decent laser printer these days for about 100 bucks, even less. But the toner costs about 60.00 a pop WITHOUT the drum unit. And Inkjet printers are a dime a dozen these days, but a set of inkjet cartridges (black, Cyan, Yellow, Magenta) can cost almost as much as the printer, and they don't last very long!
Bad comparisons. There is a difference between the OEM and third-party inks, though much less so with laser toner. While third-party stuff is sufficient for casual printing where really dark grey is good enough for black, the difference is readily observable for high-quality graphics, text, line art, and photo printing on better paper stock.

Beyond the print results, I've had utter crap luck with third-party cartridges and refills developing nozzles that dry, clog, sputter, or just plain leak (I've bought them for Canon, Epson, and HP printers). Its a good thing they cost 1/3 as much because I go through twice as many. And I'm still not sure how much I should adjust the net savings of using them for having a leaky cartridge sling black ink all over the inside of my Epson Stylus. Twice.
Wow, bad luck for you. I've been using 3rd party ink cartridges for years for my HP 5550, and a multifunction Brother MFC. Zero probs. And I don't buy those kits where I can refill the cartridges myself. I went down that road. Decided to take the other fork. But yes, I can attest to the quality of some 3rd party inks not being as bright or vivid as OEM inks. And here we are talking about zero quality difference between a 12 dollar HDMI cable and a 262 dollar one. So yeah, maybe it was a bad comparison. But you can get the idea.
 

kylebisme

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2000
9,396
0
0
A better comparison would be printer cables. As long as the cable works, you are getting full image quality, your prints won't look better regardless of how of a cable you use.

Having a fancy cable does nothing for the quality of a digital signal, having a functional cable is all it takes.
 

Jynx980

Senior member
Jan 10, 2001
604
0
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One thing I want to point out is that most of the employees at these big box stores are young kids with managers telling them they need to make numbers, get service plans, in home installations, etc. Most are not as pushy as the ones in the video and they usually do not make commission. They do what they are trained to do; sell the high margin items.

They are also doing you a disservice by not recommending/reminding you you need a cable. If the customer gets home and finds out he can't connect item a to item b he's not gonna be happy. Convenience also comes into play. If you want to hook up item x right away, your probably going to buy a cable in store. If you don't want to buy a in store cable, politely decline or say you already have one. I usually hear people say they already have one after they see the price. There is no need to go into a tirade about how expensive the cable is. Yes, you know it, I know it, lets not beat a dead horse.

The obligatory Penny Arcade Comic Look at the news part too!

This one has a small bit of info about the PA comic and a guy working for Monster at the time.
 

kylebisme

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2000
9,396
0
0
Originally posted by: Jynx980
They are also doing you a disservice by not recommending/reminding you you need a cable.

...

There is no need to go into a tirade about how expensive the cable is. Yes, you know it, I know it, lets not beat a dead horse.
You may not want to go into it, but I have to argue that gouging customers on cables is more of a disservice than not recommending one at all. A service to the customer would be to sell a good cable for a respectable price, or at least recommend somewhere that does.
 

Keysplayr

Elite Member
Jan 16, 2003
21,209
50
91
Originally posted by: TheSnowman
Originally posted by: Jynx980
They are also doing you a disservice by not recommending/reminding you you need a cable.

...

There is no need to go into a tirade about how expensive the cable is. Yes, you know it, I know it, lets not beat a dead horse.
You make not want to go into it, but I have to argue that gouging customers on cables is more of a disservice than not recommending one at all. A service to the customer would be to sell a good cable for a respectable price, or at least recommend somewhere that does.
I'll go one further. The real disservice is the TV/Monitor companies do not include these necessary cables, or at least the most commonly used cable for that item, in the package with the TV/Monitor/DVD player. What would it cost Samsung to include a $7 (to them) HDMI cable? If they charge an extra 7 bucks for their product. What is the big deal? Do the big TV companies conspire with Monster Cable? RocketFish? Yeah, probably. I can't think of any other reason not to include such a cheap cable.
 

rudder

Lifer
Nov 9, 2000
19,441
85
91
Originally posted by: MTDEW

You want the $12.00 cable, you have to order online and wait for it to ship/arrive.
Two day shipping is cheap... and for the price difference... overnight shipping would still be reasonable.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,038
344
126
Originally posted by: tcsenter
Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
And don't forget about printer ink and toner. Same principal applies. You can get a decent laser printer these days for about 100 bucks, even less. But the toner costs about 60.00 a pop WITHOUT the drum unit. And Inkjet printers are a dime a dozen these days, but a set of inkjet cartridges (black, Cyan, Yellow, Magenta) can cost almost as much as the printer, and they don't last very long!
Bad comparisons. There is a difference between the OEM and third-party inks, though much less so with laser toner. While third-party stuff is sufficient for casual printing where really dark grey is good enough for black, the difference is readily observable for high-quality graphics, text, line art, and photo printing on better paper stock.

Beyond the print results, I've had utter crap luck with third-party cartridges and refills developing nozzles that dry, clog, sputter, or just plain leak (I've bought them for Canon, Epson, and HP printers). Its a good thing they cost 1/3 as much because I go through twice as many. And I'm still not sure how much I should adjust the net savings of using them for having a leaky cartridge sling black ink all over the inside of my Epson Stylus. Twice.
Where I work, our HP Designjet Z2100 for which we use to do Proofs for customers who are having us do some packaging for them goes through about $1500 in consumables a month. $900 for the ink cartridges and print heads and the rest is rolls of paper. :D

What's more is nobody makes 3rd party tanks for it and if we did find some and use them then Heidelberg from whom we buy our consumables from will not warranty the equipment and we'd be out $3,000 if we had an issue.
 

mizzou

Diamond Member
Jan 2, 2008
9,734
54
91
digital revolution is great because there is never any degradation in quality so long as the signal comes through

a burned cd sounds the same as orig CD
720p signal through my antenna is same as 720p signal through my cable box

It's not like how it used to be when you recorded a VHS tape with a VHS tape and there was significant reduction in quality
 

Mem

Lifer
Apr 23, 2000
21,476
13
81
Interesting review on long HDMI cable lengths here so be careful what you buy for those longer runs of HDMI.


Conclusion

Well, what started out as a quest to prove the fact that longer HDMI cables really matter ended up schooling me in the fact that real world performance differs very much from lab results. It also demonstrated that not all manufacturers' cables are created equal - nor will all of the cables labeled as "HDMI 1.3-ready" likely pass all of the potential aspects of category 2 (3.4 Gbps) cables without help.

 

nitromullet

Diamond Member
Jan 7, 2004
9,031
36
91
Originally posted by: Mem
Interesting review on long HDMI cable lengths here so be careful what you buy for those longer runs of HDMI.


Conclusion

Well, what started out as a quest to prove the fact that longer HDMI cables really matter ended up schooling me in the fact that real world performance differs very much from lab results. It also demonstrated that not all manufacturers' cables are created equal - nor will all of the cables labeled as "HDMI 1.3-ready" likely pass all of the potential aspects of category 2 (3.4 Gbps) cables without help.
Good article. Although, I think the more relevant portions of the conclusion would be:

At lengths less than 4 meters you can just about use silly string (OK, not really) and get HDMI to pass at any current resolution. At less than 3 meters you'll even extend that to 12-bit color and possibly the next crazy idea HDMI Licensing decides to throw at consumers. Don't spend a lot on these cables and if you want to save money you won't let anyone at a big box store talk you into buying from them.
and

So all those people saying "buy any cable you want, it doesn't matter" are, for the most part, correct - at least until manufacturers advance to 12-bit software and signal transmission.
 

taltamir

Lifer
Mar 21, 2004
13,576
6
76
Originally posted by: masteryoda34
Bigger rip off than bottled water.
Bottle water is the only water without fluoride, estrogen, and in some countries, sewage runoff.

But it makes more sense to just buy a good filter and make your own.
 

gba

Senior member
Apr 1, 2002
833
0
71
BIG STORES rely on accessory sales for profits. TV prices are so competitive, that if it were not for the high mark-up on all of the other things ppl walk out of those snake pits with, there would be no point to even bothering to show up for the game.
 

bigsnyder

Golden Member
Nov 4, 2004
1,568
2
81
I think the point of these articles are to say that price and brand doesn't guarantee quality. There can be a difference among various cables that doesn't always scale with price.
 

postmortemIA

Diamond Member
Jul 11, 2006
7,721
40
91
TV companies could make better sales if they market "includes HDMI cable of $50 value" ( we know that value is $10)
 

paperfist

Diamond Member
Nov 30, 2000
6,504
276
126
www.the-teh.com
Originally posted by: cmdrdredd
Originally posted by: VirtualLarry
Originally posted by: cmdrdredd
I've never bought a cable from BB or any other B&M store. Anything that says Monster on it doesn't go on my equipment simply based on the fact that you're buying the same piece of copper with a name stamped on the shielding.
It's not just the same piece of copper, it's actually worse!
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=...zESWzs&feature=related
In the A/V industry it's well known that copper wire is only manufactured at a few locations. These locations sell the bare spools to Monster Cable, Radioshack, Acoustic Research, Momoprice etc. Then they have the wire cut to length and it's then shielded and ends are soldered/crimped on. So each piece of material comes from the same place regardless of the name stamped on.
Beyond that it's still a copper wire, how much difference can their really be when it's carrying a signal on it?

I bought 80' of 12AWG from monoprice for $20 to wire my room remodel for speakers. I ran out and the only local place I could find the gauge was an audio store and 20' of it ran me $35. HomeDepot also sold 14AWG 80' spools for $90. The markup is pure crazy.

 

allies

Platinum Member
Jun 18, 2002
2,572
0
71
Originally posted by: hclarkjr
i just bought a HDTV at best buy few weeks ago, they also tried to get me to buy one of these cables too. another lie best buy likes to push out is that all the TV's are playing in HD mode even though they are all hooked up via a regular cable TV connection. i pointed that out and asked how it is in HD if it is not hooked up via a HDMI cable and was told that the signal was still HD.
HD can be broadcast through regular coax...
 

HexiumVII

Senior member
Dec 11, 2005
661
7
81
I was at Kmart and need an HDMI cable to test a laptop, i saw a $64, $46, and $14 one. I took the $14 and it rung up for $5. I was like ok! I'm still scouring Kmart to find leftovers. For short distances it doesn't matter that much. Plus the signal will be run through digital ECC and won't be susceptible to analog type interference. Also you're probably sitting far away from the TV, so you won't notice any nuances as much. For monitors, it may matter a bit more since you are so close. Now for audio, that's another issue...
 

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