HD5830 price drop

[tincart]

If you want to use one card buy a gtx470/480. But Ive noticed that 2 gtx 460's are cheaper and faster ,thats why I used it as an example.

My point was YOU have no choice if you buy a ATI card AND want to use these features.

So in short a gtx 460 is 8% slower, runs just as cool, is just as silent, uses only 12 watts more, ANd gives you a choice in the future for better physx visuals, 3d gamplay,VLC acceleration, better tessellation performance, CUDA, better folding@home performance, ANd MOST important cost less! vs a 5850.
A 5830? forget about it.

Whats not to like about the gtx 460? It's almost a no-brainer.

If that was your original point, you would have made it in your original post. Bargain-basement rhetorical tricks will work against 12-year olds, not me.

Further, connecting your new point to "What's not to like about the GTX 460?" is yet another fallacy. Discussion about the relevance of certain features has NOTHING TO DO with a judgement about the value of the card overall. By conflating one set with the other set, you're trying to make it look like I'm arguing against both. I'm not.

Grow up, kid.

 

[heyheybooboo]

well, considering that you could buy a 4870 1gb for ~ $150 16 mos ago when I bought my gtx 260, doesn't it seem reasonable to you that we should be able to get similar performance for a few $$ less today?

Nope.

In Feb/March of 2009 (16 months ago) the HD 4870 was $220.

The HD 4890 came out in April. By the end of May the HD 4870 had dropped to $180. The street price really didn't drop to $150 until last July (essentially one year after it debuted at $300 -- substantially undercutting in price and overwhelming the GTX 260).

And what would seem reasonable to me would be a better effort on your part to reign in the propaganda.




--

 

[happy medium]

If that was your original point, you would have made it in your original post. Bargain-basement rhetorical tricks will work against 12-year olds, not me.

Further, connecting your new point to "What's not to like about the GTX 460?" is yet another fallacy. Discussion about the relevance of certain features has NOTHING TO DO with a judgement about the value of the card overall. By conflating one set with the other set, you're trying to make it look like I'm arguing against both. I'm not.

Grow up, kid.

All them big words and you can't answer a question or counter a point.
Is that some sort of high tech spin?

Well I won't be baited, good day sir.

 

[Skurge]

Is it OK is I start touting ATI features and ignoring nV ones?

The 5850 is clearly worth more that the 460, you cant use eyefinity with a single 460, you can use more than 2 5850s in crossfire whereas you can only use 2 460 in SLI (lame) 5850 has 3d as well, tessellation. Its faster in all DX11 games that use tessellation (dirt2, metro2033, stalker COP) So it must have better tessellation performance. It has faster performance in milkeyway@home. With all that the 5850 uses less power.

By my reasoning, the 460 would have to drop down to $100 to make any sense at all.

 

[happy medium]

Is it OK is I start touting ATI features and ignoring nV ones?

The 5850 is clearly worth more that the 460, you cant use eyefinity with a single 460, you can use more than 2 5850s in crossfire whereas you can only use 2 460 in SLI (lame) 5850 has 3d as well, tessellation. Its faster in all DX11 games that use tessellation (dirt2, metro2033, stalker COP) So it must have better tessellation performance. It has faster performance in milkeyway@home. With all that the 5850 uses less power.

By my reasoning, the 460 would have to drop down to $100 to make any sense at all.

Wow, is this sarcasm? Really.
If not, well you are entitled to your opionion, but don't belittle youself buddy.

 

[Skurge]

Wow, is this sarcasm? Really.
If not, well you are entitled to your opionion, but don't belittle youself buddy.

Yeah, that was sarcasm. Didn't feel as good as I thought it would. I wonder how wreckage does it constantly?

 

[happy medium]

Yeah, that was sarcasm. Didn't feel as good as I thought it would. I wonder how wreckage does it constantly?

Just be cool, don't get caught up in the negative.()

 

[Wreckage]

. Its faster in all DX11 games that use tessellation (dirt2, metro2033, stalker COP)

http://www.techreport.com/r.x/geforce-gtx-460/m2033.gif

you can use more than 2 5850s in crossfire whereas you can only use 2 460 in SLI (lame)

http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=25444
"3-Way SLI Support
The SPARKLE GeForce GTX 460 series Graphics Cards supports NVIDIA 3-way SLI technology, "


You are now clearly posting false information. Actual bold faced lies.

 

[Skurge]

http://www.techreport.com/r.x/geforce-gtx-460/m2033.gif



http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=25444
"3-Way SLI Support
The SPARKLE GeForce GTX 460 series Graphics Cards supports NVIDIA 3-way SLI technology, "


You are now clearly posting false information. Actual bold faced lies.

AVP is faster
http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=25391&page=7
http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.p...k=view&id=558&Itemid=72&limit=1&limitstart=11
Dirt2 is faster
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeForce_GTX_460_SLI/9.html
http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=25391&page=11
http://www.techreport.com/articles.x/19242/8

Stalker is faster
http://www.anandtech.com/show/3809/nvidias-geforce-gtx-460-the-200-king/12
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/graphics/2010/07/12/nvidia-geforce-gtx-460-graphics-card-review/8

Metro2033 is faster (I thought I'd link more than 1 benchmark)
http://www.legionhardware.com/articles_pages/palit_inno3d_geforce_gtx_460_review,8.html
http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.p...k=view&id=558&Itemid=72&limit=1&limitstart=13

Unfortunately NVIDIA has removed the possibility to run more than two GeForce GTX 460 cards in triple or quad SLI.

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeForce_GTX_460_SLI

Triple-SLI capability is not supported

http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.p...sk=view&id=558&Itemid=72&limit=1&limitstart=3
You were saying about me lying?

 

[RussianSensation]

I am not sure why you guys are still arguing GTX460 vs. 5850. Both cards offer something for everyone. If you don't want to overclock, well the 5850 is obviously faster in the majority of cases but it also costs $60-70 more on average.

With overclocking in the equation, again both cards are excellent with GTX460 getting to GTX470 speeds and 5850 can even surpass 5870's speeds.

If anyone should be arguing about anything it should be about how poor the value in graphics cards is above $300. I think you could do a lot worse than getting a GTX460 and overclocking it or a 5850 and overclocking it -- like buying a GTX470 for $350, a 5870 for $360-390 or a GTX480 for $420-450.

We should just be happy that GTX460 will allow more gamers on a budget to upgrade. This means the lowest common denominator for a gaming PC will increase. Hopefully this means that more and more games will take advantage of DX11 features, while improving the graphics quality.

 

[DaveSimmons]

^ the argument was over Wreckage's claim that the 5850 is worth $30 less than the GTX 460 1 GB because it lacks PhysX and CUDA.

happy medium then made a less ludicrous point that if you pay extra for a SLI-capable motherboard and you might someday buy a second GTX 460, then you'd actually be able to use the PhysX/CUDA at a decent resolution, unlike with Wreckage's single-card example.

You do need the SLI motherboard and a more expensive PSU for that though. Plus another $230 for the second 460.

 

[happy medium]

^ the argument was over Wreckage's claim that the 5850 is worth $30 less than the GTX 460 1 GB because it lacks PhysX and CUDA.

happy medium then made a less ludicrous point that if you pay extra for a SLI-capable motherboard and you might someday buy a second GTX 460, then you'd actually be able to use the PhysX/CUDA at a decent resolution, unlike with Wreckage's single-card example.

You do need the SLI motherboard and a more expensive PSU for that though. Plus another $230 for the second 460.

5850 worth 30$ less then a gtx 460 = NUTS. I agree.

Most new boards x58,x55's support sli if they support crossfire.
MIne just uses crossfire,but is also 2 years + old.

Less ludicrous? I like that.

 

[Wreckage]

^ the argument was over Wreckage's claim that the 5850 is worth $30 less than the GTX 460 1 GB because it lacks PhysX and CUDA.

Among other things.

Looking at the Anandtech benchmarks the performance difference is less than 10% overall. A factory overclocked card with a full warranty would close that gap.

So if both cards are practically similar in performance, most people would then look at features to decide which card to get. That is why I stated the 5850 should be under $200 to compete.

It still has to compete with the 768mb GTX 460 which can already be had for under $200.

But if people think it's great that ATI charges a lot for their cards.... good for them it's their money.

The 470 is starting to show up under $300, the 470 tends to be faster than a 5870 so that's why I suggested they drop the price to $250. Don't forget that last round ATI's top chip was selling for less than this. I'm just using logic here.

Why this upsets everyone so much is beyond me. I would think price cuts would be a good thing.

 

[Will Robinson]

the 470 tends to be faster than a 5870 so that's why I suggested they drop the price to $250.

You are clueless,even back at HQ they are groaning at such utter rubbish.

 

[happy medium]

You are clueless]

I just looked at Anands latest review and I would not agree with Wreckage's 250$ price for the 5870.
But I would definitly say it needs a major price drop.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/3809/nvidias-geforce-gtx-460-the-200-king/15

5870 loses in Crysis
5870 loses in Hawx

5870 loses in Battleforge
5870 wins in Left for dead (but I have no idea why they use this game, cpu limited)
5870 Wins by 8fps in Bad Company 2
5870 wins by 4 fps in Stalker
Equal in Dirt 2
5870 wins easily in MAss Effect 2
5870 wins in wolfenstein


So the 5870 wins 5, loses 3 and ties in 1.

I would say the 5870's worth 320$ if the gtx470 is 280$.

Fair enough?

 

[DaveSimmons]

I would say the 5870's worth 320$ if the gtx470 is 280$. Fair enough?

Seems reasonable. And the 5850 does need a price drop too, but to more like $250 since it is 10% faster than the 1 GB GTX 460.

Newegg has MSI and Gigabyte 5850s for $280 after rebate, but that's still much too high given the 470's price.

 

[happy medium]

Seems reasonable. And the 5850 does need a price drop too, but to more like $250 since it is 10% faster than the 1 GB GTX 460.

Newegg has MSI and Gigabyte 5850s for $280 after rebate, but that's still much too high given the 470's price.

Correct, a 250$/260$ 5850 is just about right.

 

[Skurge]

Among other things.

Looking at the Anandtech benchmarks the performance difference is less than 10% overall. A factory overclocked card with a full warranty would close that gap.

So if both cards are practically similar in performance, most people would then look at features to decide which card to get. That is why I stated the 5850 should be under $200 to compete.

It still has to compete with the 768mb GTX 460 which can already be had for under $200.

But if people think it's great that ATI charges a lot for their cards.... good for them it's their money.

The 470 is starting to show up under $300, the 470 tends to be faster than a 5870 so that's why I suggested they drop the price to $250. Don't forget that last round ATI's top chip was selling for less than this. I'm just using logic here.

Why this upsets everyone so much is beyond me. I would think price cuts would be a good thing.

Ahh yes, ignore my post as to why the 460 should be less than 5850. I take you agree with what I said?

ATi don't have to drop prices y'know. nV could just drop theirs so low that no one even consider ATi's cards at current prices. Im just using logic here.

 

[Wreckage]

Ahh yes, ignore my post as to why the 460 should be less than 5850. I take you agree with what I said?

If you can dismiss the features I listed, I can pretty much ignore the "disputed" features you listed.

Either way considering the delay cost NVIDIA very little market share. If ATI does not want to compete, fine by me.

I'm betting ATI slips back down to 30% or less by the end of the year. Especially at these inflated prices. Given the fact that AMD posted another loss they probably can't afford a price drop anyways.

I do however doubt very few people will pay that price now. I'm still shocked how people are lobbying to pay more for video cards.

 

[DaveSimmons]

I'm still shocked how people are lobbying to pay more for video cards.

You're "shocked" that people are arguing for pricing 3D cards based on their 3D performance?

You're easily shocked

 

[cusideabelincoln]

If you can dismiss the features I listed, I can pretty much ignore the "disputed" features you listed.

Either way considering the delay cost NVIDIA very little market share. If ATI does not want to compete, fine by me.

I'm betting ATI slips back down to 30% or less by the end of the year. Especially at these inflated prices. Given the fact that AMD posted another loss they probably can't afford a price drop anyways.

I do however doubt very few people will pay that price now. I'm still shocked how people are lobbying to pay more for video cards.

Oh I agree with you. The 5850 should be $200, and the GTX 460 should be $180. The 768MB version should be $120, and the 5830 and 465 shouldn't even exist since they're leftover crap. Tooth fairies are real, unicorns actually can't fly, big foot's crap smells like angel dust, and there are pots of gold at each end of the rainbow.

 

[happy medium]

Oh I agree with you. The 5850 should be $200, and the GTX 460 should be $180. The 768MB version should be $120, and the 5830 and 465 shouldn't even exist since they're leftover crap. Tooth fairies are real, unicorns actually can't fly, big foot's crap smells like angel dust, and there are pots of gold at each end of the rainbow.

Classic :thumbsup:

 

[RussianSensation]

And the 5850 does need a price drop too, but to more like $250 since it is 10% faster than the 1 GB GTX 460.

I don't know why everyone keeps clinging to AT's review of the GTX460. I looked around the net and 5850 is faster by a lot more than 10% over the 1GB version.

1920x1200 AA/AF - http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/foru...force-gtx-460-1gb-gtx-460-768mb-review-7.html
AvP + 22%
BF:BC2 +19%
Dirt 2 - tied
Far Cry 2 - 10% slower
Just Cause 2 +13%
Metro 2033 +38%

Far Cry 2 heavily favours Nvidia. Also 5850 is already blazing in that game. If you look at the newer games, the performance difference is FAR more than 10%. Don't even get me started on the 768mb version (this will be 8800 GTS 320mb all over again....).

Also, if we are going to argue that GTX460 1GB can be overclocked by 35%, a 5850 can also overclock to 950/1000 mhz easily surpassing a 5870. This means there is no way a GTX460 will ever be faster than an overclocked 5850 unless you are comparing the 2 games with PhysX enabled or extreme tessellation. If one were comparing a GTX460 for $230, then $285 MSI TwinFrozr II 5850 is overpriced. But I don't understand how people are buying a $250 GTX460 by Palit over a $285 5850 that is faster when overclocked?

 

[happy medium]

I don't know why everyone keeps clinging to AT's review of the GTX460. I looked around the net and 5850 is faster by a lot more than 10% over the 1GB version.

1920x1200 AA/AF - http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/foru...force-gtx-460-1gb-gtx-460-768mb-review-7.html
AvP + 22%
BF:BC2 +19%
Dirt 2 - tied
Far Cry 2 - 10% slower
Just Cause 2 +13%
Metro 2033 +38%

Far Cry 2 heavily favours Nvidia. Also 5850 is already blazing in that game. If you look at the newer games, the performance difference is FAR more than 10%. Don't even get me started on the 768mb version (this will be 8800 GTS 320mb all over again....).

Also, if we are going to argue that GTX460 1GB can be overclocked by 35%, a 5850 can also overclock to 950/1000 mhz easily surpassing a 5870. This means there is no way a GTX460 will ever be faster than an overclocked 5850 unless you are comparing the 2 games with PhysX enabled or extreme tessellation.

So whats your point?
Anands benchmarks are fud?
The 5850 does not need a price drop?

I think the buck stops at Anands benchmarks. There is no signs and never been any signs of favoritism and they don't seem to worry about negative feedback from ATI or Nvidia.

Edit:that link you provided shows the gtx465 and 5830 besting the gtx460? Thats crap IMHO.

 

[dust]

You are clueless]

I just looked at Anands latest review and I would not agree with Wreckage's 250$ price for the 5870.
But I would definitly say it needs a major price drop.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/3809/nvidias-geforce-gtx-460-the-200-king/15

5870 loses in Crysis
5870 loses in Hawx

5870 loses in Battleforge
5870 wins in Left for dead (but I have no idea why they use this game, cpu limited)
5870 Wins by 8fps in Bad Company 2
5870 wins by 4 fps in Stalker
Equal in Dirt 2
5870 wins easily in MAss Effect 2
5870 wins in wolfenstein


So the 5870 wins 5, loses 3 and ties in 1.

I would say the 5870's worth 320$ if the gtx470 is 280$.

Fair enough?

Sounds like you're on to something there. The ATI prices should drop all right. If 5870 reaches 300$, I personally wouldn't mind.