HD Homerun results

[kreactor]

so with 1 regular hdhr purchase, if i'm only recording to htpc hard drive (vs to a NAS and straining the bandwidth) with tuner #1 and watching 720p+ broadcast on tuner #1, a non-gigabit network would suffice (watching stutter-free hdtv streaming)....i'm trying to determine the cheapest piecemeal upgrade for my ultimate goal to send 1 signal to living room htpc and one the basement

my endgame for this device is to send hdtv stream to the basement, where there is an inspiron 1150 max resolution =xga) w/ 802.11g (zyxel m-102 pcmcia w/ theorectial 108mbps) (hook up to infocus x1 projector (max resolution xga) to watch nba finals 2008...

 

[dclive]

Originally posted by: erwos
You're going to crowd out even one HDHR with any non-trival file transfer. You're stuck on congesting the network just with HDHRs - the point is that HDHRs are not the only things doing transfers on the network.

Hmm...are you familiar with the difference between a hub and a switch? Finding a 100Mb hub in this day and age is difficult.... since it's a switch, unless the media center is the box you're sending these massive file transfers to, there is little or no network impact to those operations.

 

[dclive]

Originally posted by: kreactor
so with 1 regular hdhr purchase, if i'm only recording to htpc hard drive (vs to a NAS and straining the bandwidth) with tuner #1 and watching 720p+ broadcast on tuner #1, a non-gigabit network would suffice (watching stutter-free hdtv streaming)....i'm trying to determine the cheapest piecemeal upgrade for my ultimate goal...

my endgame for this device is to send hdtv stream to the basement, where there is an inspiron 1150 max resolution =xga) w/ 802.11g (zyxel m-102 pcmcia w/ theorectial 108mbps) (hook up to infocus x1 projector (max resolution xga) to watch nba finals 2008...

Non-GB will be fine. I wouldn't put more than a single HDTV stream over wireless, and I wouldn't even count on that, assuming G. With N you might be OK, depending on implementation.

 

[Quasmo]

Originally posted by: kreactor
so with 1 regular hdhr purchase, if i'm only recording to htpc hard drive (vs to a NAS and straining the bandwidth) with tuner #1 and watching 720p+ broadcast on tuner #1, a non-gigabit network would suffice (watching stutter-free hdtv streaming)....i'm trying to determine the cheapest piecemeal upgrade for my ultimate goal to send 1 signal to living room htpc and one the basement

my endgame for this device is to send hdtv stream to the basement, where there is an inspiron 1150 max resolution =xga) w/ 802.11g (zyxel m-102 pcmcia w/ theorectial 108mbps) (hook up to infocus x1 projector (max resolution xga) to watch nba finals 2008...

If I were you I would hook up my HDHR up to my HTPC with it's own ethernet card, and then Use media center extender on your laptop.

 

[erwos]

Originally posted by: dclive

Originally posted by: erwos
You're going to crowd out even one HDHR with any non-trival file transfer. You're stuck on congesting the network just with HDHRs - the point is that HDHRs are not the only things doing transfers on the network.

Hmm...are you familiar with the difference between a hub and a switch? Finding a 100Mb hub in this day and age is difficult.... since it's a switch, unless the media center is the box you're sending these massive file transfers to, there is little or no network impact to those operations.

I am. But you're thinking about total bandwidth available to the switch. I'm trying to point out that the link between the switch and the PC receiving the HDHR and file transfers is going to get saturated. That is to say:
1. The switch is getting 20mbit/s from the HDHR, and 100mbit/s from the second computer.
2. 120mbit/s of information is trying to flow down the link from the switch to the computer.
3. There will be some bus issues.

I thought jafa had written in the past that going to gigabit was highly recommended, period, but I can't dig out the quote. Sorry.

 

[dclive]

Originally posted by: Quasmo
, and then Use media center extender on your laptop.

I'm familiar with MCextender (a linksys/hp/etc. hardware product) and MCextender360 (ie the XBOX360), but what is Media Center Extender for your laptop?

 

[dclive]

Originally posted by: erwos

Originally posted by: dclive

Originally posted by: erwos
You're going to crowd out even one HDHR with any non-trival file transfer. You're stuck on congesting the network just with HDHRs - the point is that HDHRs are not the only things doing transfers on the network.

Hmm...are you familiar with the difference between a hub and a switch? Finding a 100Mb hub in this day and age is difficult.... since it's a switch, unless the media center is the box you're sending these massive file transfers to, there is little or no network impact to those operations.

I am. But you're thinking about total bandwidth available to the switch. I'm trying to point out that the link between the switch and the PC receiving the HDHR and file transfers is going to get saturated. That is to say:
1. The switch is getting 20mbit/s from the HDHR, and 100mbit/s from the second computer.
2. 120mbit/s of information is trying to flow down the link from the switch to the computer.
3. There will be some bus issues.

I thought jafa had written in the past that going to gigabit was highly recommended, period, but I can't dig out the quote. Sorry.

Sure, if by "bus issues" you mean it won't be as fast as doing a copy when there is no HDHR activity, sure, it's going to be a little bit slower.

Just as 100MB ethernet is slower than GigE.

But is that a problem? And is it necessary to go to GigE just because it's slower?

Need is a strong word... and for most people, doing a single file transfer at a time and then only infrequently while the TV recording is going, having a transfer speed of 8MB/s rather than 10MB/s (assuming a single high-def recording) just isn't a big deal.

 

[erwos]

Originally posted by: dclive
Sure, if by "bus issues" you mean it won't be as fast as doing a copy when there is no HDHR activity, sure, it's going to be a little bit slower.

Just as 100MB ethernet is slower than GigE.

But is that a problem? And is it necessary to go to GigE just because it's slower?

I think you're missing my fine point that you may actually have frame drops and such on the video because it's not like your switch or computer knows "give full bandwidth to the HDHR, and the rest to the file transfer". It's going to try to load balance the two (which generally makes some sense), and you're going to get some video artifacts. Do you really want to not be able to do a file transfer between computers just because you're watching some TV? Will you even know when things are recording all the time?

You're using "need" in the sense that it's required to work. That's a valid point, and I understand it. I'm using "need" in the sense of "you will probably find your experience dampened tremendously without it". Sort of like the Xbox 360 hard drive. I mean, technically, you don't even need a switch - you could use a hub, if you really hated yourself.

 

[Quasmo]

Originally posted by: dclive

Originally posted by: Quasmo
, and then Use media center extender on your laptop.

I'm familiar with MCextender (a linksys/hp/etc. hardware product) and MCextender360 (ie the XBOX360), but what is Media Center Extender for your laptop?

Well I read it wrong, but there is a way to get your laptop to "watch" the folder of your HTPC for television so you can watch the game.

Meaning you can watch already recorded TV but not live TV.

 

[dclive]

Right. There's a registry change to do that. I didn't want to mess with it, so I simply 2x click on the .dvr-ms files and MCE opens the file on the 'client' box.

 

[Markbnj]

I'm strongly considering getting one of these soon, as Comcast's 8/23 switchover to full digital broke all but the lower 23 chans of my home office TVPC setup that has been going strong for a few years now (using ATI 550-based card).

What I haven't been able to get a straight answer from Comcast on is how many clear-channel QAM feeds they actually offer in my area. I've checked avsforum and sagetv forums and a few other places. In general the feeling seems to be that they are slowly closing off unencrypted QAM. However, on their support site in the listing of channels for my area it states that you can receive nearly the full line-up with any QAM-capable tuner device (doesn't include PPV and other such premium services, obviously). I've sent them a few emails to confirm this, without getting a reply.

I'd hate to pick up an HDHR and find there were few channels to watch. Can anyone give some insight as to the Comcast offerings in northern NJ?

Edit: I did finally hear back from them this evening. Here is the text of their reply:

~~

Dear Mark,

Thank you for your message.

We do not support QAM at this time. The only way to receive Digital channels would be thru a Digital box or Cable card. You would need to do independent research on this issue.

If you need further assistance, please feel free to respond directly to this email. We appreciate you taking the time to contact us.

Thank you for choosing Comcast.

Sincerely,

John
Comcast Customer Care Specialist

~~

So, in other words, we can't tell you, so you need to figure it out yourself.

 

[dclive]

Well, it's in their own best interest not to broadcast that information. I think federal law says they have to OFFER the service, but certainly they don't need to MARKET that fact.

 

[Markbnj]

Originally posted by: dclive
Well, it's in their own best interest not to broadcast that information. I think federal law says they have to OFFER the service, but certainly they don't need to MARKET that fact.

Bah. I pay them a nice chunk of change every month as a triple-play customer. There's $10 bucks in play here, for an STB. I don't think it is unreasonable to want to know what my service offering will be with and without a box.

 

[GregGreen]

Did you check the local forums on AVS for your city? Most of the threads have a listing of what QAM channels people are getting. This only of course works if you are in a somewhat large city. There is no thread for my city of 50,000.

 

[Markbnj]

Hey Greg. Yeah, we're out in western Morris County. I've seen listings for NYC and Phila., but nothing for our area.

Comcast's site is pretty telling, I think. When I view the channel listings for my area only two or three stations are marked as "require a digital converter box to view." Then there is a FAQ section about what equipment is needed other than a digital cable-ready HD TV, and the response is that no additional equipment is required, but that a digital converter is necessary to access PPV/OD content.

So I think they pretty much say it, but they don't want to come out and say it .

 

[GregGreen]

Well good luck! All I get here in TWCWNY is our local ABC, CBS, NBC and PBS. Sometimes FOX will come in, but not enough to even watch an entire show...

 

[nullpointerus]

Originally posted by: Markbnj
Comcast's site is pretty telling, I think. When I view the channel listings for my area only two or three stations are marked as "require a digital converter box to view." Then there is a FAQ section about what equipment is needed other than a digital cable-ready HD TV, and the response is that no additional equipment is required, but that a digital converter is necessary to access PPV/OD content.

So I think they pretty much say it, but they don't want to come out and say it .

Comcast ran an advertisement a short while ago in which they were touting the fact that their HDTV service can be plugged directly into any TV with the appropriate tuner. Does this mean their proprietary encryption is kept to a minimum? In this case a QAM-capable tuner card/box should also work with these channels.

 

[Emulex]

all those folks with ppv and that on-demand, they just use subchannels on QAM so you can sit there and watch some dude pause his PPV pron then start again. trippy.

 

[Markbnj]

Originally posted by: nullpointerus

Originally posted by: Markbnj
Comcast's site is pretty telling, I think. When I view the channel listings for my area only two or three stations are marked as "require a digital converter box to view." Then there is a FAQ section about what equipment is needed other than a digital cable-ready HD TV, and the response is that no additional equipment is required, but that a digital converter is necessary to access PPV/OD content.

So I think they pretty much say it, but they don't want to come out and say it .

Comcast ran an advertisement a short while ago in which they were touting the fact that their HDTV service can be plugged directly into any TV with the appropriate tuner. Does this mean their proprietary encryption is kept to a minimum? In this case a QAM-capable tuner card/box should also work with these channels.

That's what I'm hoping, but it's just a guess. Pisses me off that they won't simply state what the deal is.

 

[erwos]

Originally posted by: Markbnj

Originally posted by: nullpointerus

Originally posted by: Markbnj
Comcast's site is pretty telling, I think. When I view the channel listings for my area only two or three stations are marked as "require a digital converter box to view." Then there is a FAQ section about what equipment is needed other than a digital cable-ready HD TV, and the response is that no additional equipment is required, but that a digital converter is necessary to access PPV/OD content.

So I think they pretty much say it, but they don't want to come out and say it .

Comcast ran an advertisement a short while ago in which they were touting the fact that their HDTV service can be plugged directly into any TV with the appropriate tuner. Does this mean their proprietary encryption is kept to a minimum? In this case a QAM-capable tuner card/box should also work with these channels.

That's what I'm hoping, but it's just a guess. Pisses me off that they won't simply state what the deal is.

Unless hell somehow froze over, they're not saying they're doing everything in clear QAM. More likely is that they're talking about their own digital tuner boxes being able to be hooked up to everything.

I can definitely tell you that DC-area Comcast encrypts everything except what the FCC forces them not to (local OTA channels).

 

[Narmer]

Originally posted by: dclive
My 10/100 network can do about 8-9 MB/s without breaking a sweat. A single HD channel can need roughly 2MB/s, so having 4 channels going (2 HD Homerun devices powering 4 physical tuners) will almost saturate a 100Mb network.

HD needs 20Mb/s, not 2MB/s.

 

[dclive]

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: dclive
My 10/100 network can do about 8-9 MB/s without breaking a sweat. A single HD channel can need roughly 2MB/s, so having 4 channels going (2 HD Homerun devices powering 4 physical tuners) will almost saturate a 100Mb network.

HD needs 20Mb/s, not 2MB/s.

They're one and the same.

Mb/s is megabits/sec.

MB/s is megabytes/sec.

HD needs 20Mb/s or 2MB/s.

In the context (my saying that a 10/100 network can do 8-9 MB/s), I feel that was clear.

 

[nullpointerus]

Originally posted by: erwos

Originally posted by: Markbnj

Originally posted by: nullpointerus

Originally posted by: Markbnj
Comcast's site is pretty telling, I think. When I view the channel listings for my area only two or three stations are marked as "require a digital converter box to view." Then there is a FAQ section about what equipment is needed other than a digital cable-ready HD TV, and the response is that no additional equipment is required, but that a digital converter is necessary to access PPV/OD content.

So I think they pretty much say it, but they don't want to come out and say it .

Comcast ran an advertisement a short while ago in which they were touting the fact that their HDTV service can be plugged directly into any TV with the appropriate tuner. Does this mean their proprietary encryption is kept to a minimum? In this case a QAM-capable tuner card/box should also work with these channels.

That's what I'm hoping, but it's just a guess. Pisses me off that they won't simply state what the deal is.

Unless hell somehow froze over, they're not saying they're doing everything in clear QAM. More likely is that they're talking about their own digital tuner boxes being able to be hooked up to everything.

I can definitely tell you that DC-area Comcast encrypts everything except what the FCC forces them not to (local OTA channels).

No, they were explicitly advertising that customers did NOT need cable boxes to get HDTV. Sorry if I wasn't clear on this earlier. Maybe it's a regional thing. We're living in backwater country, where people still fly Confederate flags and every gas station seems to sell boiled peanuts. (You really don't wanna know what they look like when boiled with the shells on.)

 

[weeber]

Originally posted by: nullpointerus

Originally posted by: erwos

Originally posted by: Markbnj

Originally posted by: nullpointerus

Originally posted by: Markbnj
Comcast's site is pretty telling, I think. When I view the channel listings for my area only two or three stations are marked as "require a digital converter box to view." Then there is a FAQ section about what equipment is needed other than a digital cable-ready HD TV, and the response is that no additional equipment is required, but that a digital converter is necessary to access PPV/OD content.

So I think they pretty much say it, but they don't want to come out and say it .

Comcast ran an advertisement a short while ago in which they were touting the fact that their HDTV service can be plugged directly into any TV with the appropriate tuner. Does this mean their proprietary encryption is kept to a minimum? In this case a QAM-capable tuner card/box should also work with these channels.

That's what I'm hoping, but it's just a guess. Pisses me off that they won't simply state what the deal is.

Unless hell somehow froze over, they're not saying they're doing everything in clear QAM. More likely is that they're talking about their own digital tuner boxes being able to be hooked up to everything.

I can definitely tell you that DC-area Comcast encrypts everything except what the FCC forces them not to (local OTA channels).

No, they were explicitly advertising that customers did NOT need cable boxes to get HDTV. Sorry if I wasn't clear on this earlier. Maybe it's a regional thing. We're living in backwater country, where people still fly Confederate flags and every gas station seems to sell boiled peanuts. (You really don't wanna know what they look like when boiled with the shells on.)

Here in Atlanta, I can pickup the HD locals and TBS with the QAM tuner from Comcast. However, for things like TNTHD, ESPN(2)HD, and DiscoveryHD I need their cable box. As far as I know, by law, cable companies must broadcast over the air signals free of encryption. The other stuff they can, and knowing Comcast, will encrypt.

The thing that really stinks is Comcast simulcasts some analog stations in digital. However, only some of these channels are unencrypted. For instance you used to be able to get the digital feed of History channel with a QAM tuner. But then they encrypted it, and my TV can only get the analog version, which look horrible on my LCD. So I need the cable box for that as well.

As for boiled peanuts, well I could probably eat a pound of those in one sitting.

 

[Quasmo]

Originally posted by: weeber

Originally posted by: nullpointerus

Originally posted by: erwos

Originally posted by: Markbnj

Originally posted by: nullpointerus

Originally posted by: Markbnj
Comcast's site is pretty telling, I think. When I view the channel listings for my area only two or three stations are marked as "require a digital converter box to view." Then there is a FAQ section about what equipment is needed other than a digital cable-ready HD TV, and the response is that no additional equipment is required, but that a digital converter is necessary to access PPV/OD content.

So I think they pretty much say it, but they don't want to come out and say it .

Comcast ran an advertisement a short while ago in which they were touting the fact that their HDTV service can be plugged directly into any TV with the appropriate tuner. Does this mean their proprietary encryption is kept to a minimum? In this case a QAM-capable tuner card/box should also work with these channels.

That's what I'm hoping, but it's just a guess. Pisses me off that they won't simply state what the deal is.

Unless hell somehow froze over, they're not saying they're doing everything in clear QAM. More likely is that they're talking about their own digital tuner boxes being able to be hooked up to everything.

I can definitely tell you that DC-area Comcast encrypts everything except what the FCC forces them not to (local OTA channels).

No, they were explicitly advertising that customers did NOT need cable boxes to get HDTV. Sorry if I wasn't clear on this earlier. Maybe it's a regional thing. We're living in backwater country, where people still fly Confederate flags and every gas station seems to sell boiled peanuts. (You really don't wanna know what they look like when boiled with the shells on.)

Here in Atlanta, I can pickup the HD locals and TBS with the QAM tuner from Comcast. However, for things like TNTHD, ESPN(2)HD, and DiscoveryHD I need their cable box. As far as I know, by law, cable companies must broadcast over the air signals free of encryption. The other stuff they can, and knowing Comcast, will encrypt.

The thing that really stinks is Comcast simulcasts some analog stations in digital. However, only some of these channels are unencrypted. For instance you used to be able to get the digital feed of History channel with a QAM tuner. But then they encrypted it, and my TV can only get the analog version, which look horrible on my LCD. So I need the cable box for that as well.

As for boiled peanuts, well I could probably eat a pound of those in one sitting.

That sucks, I'm moving back to Atlanta.