HD-DVD versus Blu-Ray

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: Shawn

Originally posted by: JC86
the problem is that to force everyone who wants to watch the content available for download to buy an xbox 360 is a hard sell. That conspiracy theory does present an interesting scenario. I wouldn't put it past Microsoft considering how I don't know how they will profit directly from HDDVD beating BD. I could be wrong but I don't think they're going to get any royalties from the deal.

Uhh, Microsoft created HDi. It is in their interest for HD DVD to succeed.

They make little or no money off of HDi. However if they were to corner the video download market they could make billions.

 

[jpeyton]

Wal-Mart is having HD-DVD players on sale again this Friday, but no $99 fire-sale this time.

HD-A3 w/ 2 free movies in the box, 5 free movies instantly, and 5 free movies by MIR: $298

HD-A2 w/ 5 free movies instantly, and 5 free movies by MIR: $198

Someone on FW posted links to official Wal-Mart memos regarding their secret sale this Friday:

All items

Toshiba sale

HD-A3

Also, for those reading the details, the first memo has two very interesting things to point out. First, the quantity of HD-DVD players on sale: 24,000. Second, in the column labeled "below cost", it says "Yes" for the HD-DVD players. I think that more or less confirms that Wal-Mart sold the HD-A2s below cost during their $99 sale last month.

 

[PurdueRy]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Wal-Mart is having HD-DVD players on sale again this Friday, but no $99 fire-sale this time.

HD-A3 w/ 2 free movies in the box, 5 free movies instantly, and 5 free movies by MIR: $298

HD-A2 w/ 5 free movies instantly, and 5 free movies by MIR: $198

Someone on FW posted links to official Wal-Mart memos regarding their secret sale this Friday:

All items

Toshiba sale

HD-A3

Also, for those reading the details, the first memo has two very interesting things to point out. First, the quantity of HD-DVD players on sale: 24,000. Second, in the column labeled "below cost", it says "Yes" for the HD-DVD players. I think that more or less confirms that Wal-Mart sold the HD-A2s below cost during their $99 sale last month.

I don't find that surprising at all. Hardware often has little markup in stores. Selling an item at 50-33% of its original cost is going to lose you money in a store(unless its an accessory).

The REAL question on everyone's mind is was Toshiba selling it below THEIR cost. Which I doubt they did.

 

[Eug]

Yup. Their listed cost price is $185, according to Wal-Mart managers.

Given that Venturer is selling the A3 clone (SHD7000) for $199.99 retail, it's pretty good evidence that a similar standalone with a wholesale price of $185 is probably making a profit for Toshiba.

One may argue that Toshiba is taking a hit on software costs and potential retailer and studio incentives, but that's a different argument.

 

[Genx87]

That list cost price is most likely the cost to Walmart. I dont see why Toshiba would divulge their production costs to Walmart.

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: Genx87
That list cost price is most likely the cost to Walmart. I dont see why Toshiba would divulge their production costs to Walmart.

Indeed, we're discussing Wal-Mart's cost.

Toshiba can run the market price as they see fit, being to only major supplier of standalone players.

 

[JC86]

I'd assume, at this point, that all manufacturers, BD or HDDVD would be selling their hardware at or beneath their cost simply to get a customer base for their software titles. They're probably making little to no profits off of the hardware at this point.

 

[Eug]

Originally posted by: JC86
I'd assume, at this point, that all manufacturers, BD or HDDVD would be selling their hardware at or beneath their cost simply to get a customer base for their software titles. They're probably making little to no profits off of the hardware at this point.

I think it's pretty likely that Toshiba is making a reasonable profit on the A30, A35, and XA2, and they're not losing money on the A3.

 

[destrekor]

Originally posted by: Eug

Originally posted by: JC86
I'd assume, at this point, that all manufacturers, BD or HDDVD would be selling their hardware at or beneath their cost simply to get a customer base for their software titles. They're probably making little to no profits off of the hardware at this point.

I think it's pretty likely that Toshiba is making a reasonable profit on the A30, A35, and XA2, and they're not losing money on the A3.

you'd assume, and be wrong. Toshiba may or may not be at the moment, but they definitely did at the launch of their product. However, no other company besides Sony really has any reason to sell below cost, and Sony really cannot do that as their hands are tied with the PS3 and how much they are in the hole by selling that under cost (normal procedures, too soon to be earning enough profit to cover that. they did it with the PS2 as well). Other companies like Panasonic and Samsung don't have a true vested interest, at least enough of one, to risk losing money by selling their hardware at or below cost. They need to earn profits. Sony and Toshiba are the only players who would do such a thing, because they will be making the majority off royalties off the formats.

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: destrekor

Originally posted by: Eug

Originally posted by: JC86
I'd assume, at this point, that all manufacturers, BD or HDDVD would be selling their hardware at or beneath their cost simply to get a customer base for their software titles. They're probably making little to no profits off of the hardware at this point.

I think it's pretty likely that Toshiba is making a reasonable profit on the A30, A35, and XA2, and they're not losing money on the A3.

you'd assume, and be wrong. Toshiba may or may not be at the moment, but they definitely did at the launch of their product. However, no other company besides Sony really has any reason to sell below cost, and Sony really cannot do that as their hands are tied with the PS3 and how much they are in the hole by selling that under cost (normal procedures, too soon to be earning enough profit to cover that. they did it with the PS2 as well). Other companies like Panasonic and Samsung don't have a true vested interest, at least enough of one, to risk losing money by selling their hardware at or below cost. They need to earn profits. Sony and Toshiba are the only players who would do such a thing, because they will be making the majority off royalties off the formats.

that makes me wonder (yes, this is only speculation, of course)....If Sony were to drop their PS3 and standalone prices significantly lower, that would force their other supporters (Samsung, Panasonic, etc.) to either match those price drops to stay with Blu Ray, or to drop out entirely. It's in Sony's best interest to maintain relationships with other manufacturers so that they can tout a sense of industry adoption--something Toshiba doesn't have (yet). I can't imagine them wanting to force these guys out, and I'm sure Sony understands their reluctance to undersell (yes, we are all speculating here)

.....could this be a dreaded PF?

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: Genx87
That list cost price is most likely the cost to Walmart. I dont see why Toshiba would divulge their production costs to Walmart.

Indeed, we're discussing Wal-Mart's cost.

Toshiba can run the market price as they see fit, being to only major supplier of standalone players.

It switches on nearly a daily basis. One day we are debating if Toshiba is selling at a loss. The next day if Walmart.

 

[Eug]

Originally posted by: destrekor

Originally posted by: Eug

Originally posted by: JC86
I'd assume, at this point, that all manufacturers, BD or HDDVD would be selling their hardware at or beneath their cost simply to get a customer base for their software titles. They're probably making little to no profits off of the hardware at this point.

I think it's pretty likely that Toshiba is making a reasonable profit on the A30, A35, and XA2, and they're not losing money on the A3.

you'd assume, and be wrong. Toshiba may or may not be at the moment, but they definitely did at the launch of their product. However, no other company besides Sony really has any reason to sell below cost, and Sony really cannot do that as their hands are tied with the PS3 and how much they are in the hole by selling that under cost (normal procedures, too soon to be earning enough profit to cover that. they did it with the PS2 as well). Other companies like Panasonic and Samsung don't have a true vested interest, at least enough of one, to risk losing money by selling their hardware at or below cost. They need to earn profits. Sony and Toshiba are the only players who would do such a thing, because they will be making the majority off royalties off the formats.

The launch of the product was with the HD-A1. We are now in the 3rd generation of players.

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: Genx87
That list cost price is most likely the cost to Walmart. I dont see why Toshiba would divulge their production costs to Walmart.

Indeed, we're discussing Wal-Mart's cost.

Toshiba can run the market price as they see fit, being to only major supplier of standalone players.

It switches on nearly a daily basis. One day we are debating if Toshiba is selling at a loss. The next day if Walmart.

I would say it's all Toshiba and any loss Walmart took was covered by Toshiba.

 

[jpeyton]

More great news for people looking for Blu-Ray movie deals:

Add this to your cart

Then add this to your cart

Buy one, get one free. Choose free saver shipping.

You'll get:

The Last Samurai
The Phantom Of The Opera
Unforgiven
The Fugitive
The Road Warrior
Lethal Weapon
Swordfish
Training Day

8 movies for $56.95.

$7.12 per movie.

The only critically average titles I see in there Phantom and Swordfish (although I enjoyed Swordfish).

High Def Digest rates most of the transfers around 4 stars, which is good; you'll definitely notice the upgrade over DVD.

 

[cubby1223]

There are many Warner titles in the Amazon sale (finally some new buy one get one free selections apart from the usual Sony/Disney lineup):
http://www.amazon.com/gp/featu...ge=1&tag=bluraynews-20

 

[jpeyton]

Disney is pushing Pirates 3 pretty hard on Blu-Ray; I've seen a few commercials on TV this afternoon alone.

 

[cubby1223]

Here's the new Wal*Mart "secret" sales:
http://holiday.ri-walmart.com/?section=secret

HD-A3 for $298 with 12 free movies (2 in box, 5 in store, 5 by normal in rebate)
PS3 40gb $399 with free $50 gift card


The laptop might be nice, though, I could use one. But anyways, has anyone found anything actually "secret" to these sales yet?

 

[Eug]

Latest software sales numbers have Blu-ray at 58% and HD DVD at 42% for the week ending December 2.

Originally posted by: Wreckage

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: Genx87
That list cost price is most likely the cost to Walmart. I dont see why Toshiba would divulge their production costs to Walmart.

Indeed, we're discussing Wal-Mart's cost.

Toshiba can run the market price as they see fit, being to only major supplier of standalone players.

It switches on nearly a daily basis. One day we are debating if Toshiba is selling at a loss. The next day if Walmart.

I would say it's all Toshiba and any loss Walmart took was covered by Toshiba.

That could very well be true. However, FWIW, we asked a Toshiba exec and he claimed that the sale was Wal-Mart's doing, and Toshiba just supplied the product. They didn't give them any firesale price on them. Also, FWIW again, that Wal-Mart memo states that the deal was below cost, and for this reason they couldn't (consistently) offer the deal in some states because of state loss leader laws.

That said, it's quite possible that Toshiba provided other unmentioned incentives to Wal-Mart, making this sale easier on Wal-Mart.

 

[aphex]

Am I the only one in this camp?

I currently own HD-DVD (Toshiba HD-A2) with a few movies, but all the titles I really want to own are BD's. I'm at about a 10:1 ratio of BD:HD-DVD's that I want.

Format wars suck.

 

[Eug]

Originally posted by: aphex
Am I the only one in this camp?

I currently own HD-DVD (Toshiba HD-A2) with a few movies, but all the titles I really want to own are BD's. I'm at about a 10:1 ratio of BD:HD-DVD's that I want.

Format wars suck.

So why don't you buy a BD player?

 

[aphex]

Originally posted by: Eug

Originally posted by: aphex
Am I the only one in this camp?

I currently own HD-DVD (Toshiba HD-A2) with a few movies, but all the titles I really want to own are BD's. I'm at about a 10:1 ratio of BD:HD-DVD's that I want.

Format wars suck.

So why don't you buy a BD player?

Because it was 3x the price.

I paid $98.99 for my HD-A2 w/ 7 free HD-DVD's.

 

[Shawn]

Originally posted by: aphex
Am I the only one in this camp?

I currently own HD-DVD (Toshiba HD-A2) with a few movies, but all the titles I really want to own are BD's. I'm at about a 10:1 ratio of BD:HD-DVD's that I want.

Format wars suck.

http://xploitedcinema.com/catalog/hd-dvds-c-35.html

 

[Eug]

Originally posted by: aphex

Originally posted by: Eug

Originally posted by: aphex
Am I the only one in this camp?

I currently own HD-DVD (Toshiba HD-A2) with a few movies, but all the titles I really want to own are BD's. I'm at about a 10:1 ratio of BD:HD-DVD's that I want.

Format wars suck.

So why don't you buy a BD player?

Because it was 3x the price.

I paid $98.99 for my HD-A2 w/ 7 free HD-DVD's.

Yeah, that's a pretty awesome deal.

In my case my title preference favours HD DVD anyway, so it's all good:

Star Trek
Children of Men
Battlestar Galactica
Transformers
Etc.

The one title I really, really want on Blu-ray is Hero... but while it's a Sony title, it's not out on Blu-ray anyways so the point is moot. Ironically, it's actually available on HD DVD, but that doesn't help me, because the version out on HD DVD doesn't have English subtitles.

 

[Ricochet]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
More great news for people looking for Blu-Ray movie deals:

Add this to your cart

Then add this to your cart

Buy one, get one free. Choose free saver shipping.

<<snip>>

Oh great. Thanks to you, I now bought more Blu-Ray titles and I don't even own a Blu-Ray player.

 

[Muadib]

Originally posted by: ricochet

Originally posted by: jpeyton
More great news for people looking for Blu-Ray movie deals:

Add this to your cart

Then add this to your cart

Buy one, get one free. Choose free saver shipping.

<<snip>>

Oh great. Thanks to you, I now bought more Blu-Ray titles and I don't even own a Blu-Ray player.

Why would you do this? Do you have a PS3 on your xmas list?