HD-DVD versus Blu-Ray

[Genx87]

http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/35008/118/

HD-DVD in its first year has pushed 750K units. What I found most interesting in this article is DVD only sold 300K standalone units in its first year. This debunks the theory people arent interested in HD content. The transition from VHS to DVD imo was a bigger move than from DVD to HD-DVD\BluRay.

Should be interesting to see how many units they push in the last month.

Also if you want any more proof of the retention rate issue with the PS3 just look at the amount of PS3s in the channel vs HD-DVD and the sales ratio's. 5:1 players equals 1.8:1 disc sales.

 

[cliftonite]

Originally posted by: Genx87
http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/35008/118/

HD-DVD in its first year has pushed 750K units. What I found most interesting in this article is DVD only sold 300K standalone units in its first year. This debunks the theory people arent interested in HD content. The transition from VHS to DVD imo was a bigger move than from DVD to HD-DVD\BluRay.

Should be interesting to see how many units they push in the last month.

Also if you want any more proof of the retention rate issue with the PS3 just look at the amount of PS3s in the channel vs HD-DVD and the sales ratio's. 5:1 players equals 1.8:1 disc sales.

So we cant count the PS3 when it comes to the # of players sold but we use the total # of PS3s to bring the attach ratio down?

 

[dainthomas]

Originally posted by: zinfamous
and you left out Blade Runner as a major holidays neutral release. ...I haven't heard of The Invasion....let alone 60% of those Blu Ray titles.

Watch out for 'Daddy Day Camp"!!!

I have Bourne Ultimatum and the Mission Impossible set on my Christmas list. Thinking of picking up Tomb Raider (even though I already have the DVD) just because I need to see Angelina in 1080.

 

[destrekor]

Originally posted by: cliftonite

Originally posted by: Genx87
http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/35008/118/

HD-DVD in its first year has pushed 750K units. What I found most interesting in this article is DVD only sold 300K standalone units in its first year. This debunks the theory people arent interested in HD content. The transition from VHS to DVD imo was a bigger move than from DVD to HD-DVD\BluRay.

Should be interesting to see how many units they push in the last month.

Also if you want any more proof of the retention rate issue with the PS3 just look at the amount of PS3s in the channel vs HD-DVD and the sales ratio's. 5:1 players equals 1.8:1 disc sales.

So we cant count the PS3 when it comes to the # of players sold but we use the total # of PS3s to bring the attach ratio down?

that was the HD DVD camps latest attack on BD. it's rather comical.
people do buy PS3's to play games on ya know. not all gamers have HD tv's, and not all gamers are big movie lovers. hell, apparently not all PS3 owners even know the thing can play BD movies, but with Sony ramping up BD-playback advertisement, that may change. Regardless, there is always going to exist a number of PS3 owners without BD's, because that's not what they wanted the system for. But there are also a number of PS3 owners who buy a large amount of BD movies, like me. I love these sales recently, been adding to my library. That is why, not counting the PS3, the BD camp has sold fewer standalone players. Because quite a few PS3s were bought solely for BD playback, and some owners both game and watch movies on it. Hell, I recently discovered the awesomeness of the dvd upscaler in the system.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: cliftonite

Originally posted by: Genx87
http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/35008/118/

HD-DVD in its first year has pushed 750K units. What I found most interesting in this article is DVD only sold 300K standalone units in its first year. This debunks the theory people arent interested in HD content. The transition from VHS to DVD imo was a bigger move than from DVD to HD-DVD\BluRay.

Should be interesting to see how many units they push in the last month.

Also if you want any more proof of the retention rate issue with the PS3 just look at the amount of PS3s in the channel vs HD-DVD and the sales ratio's. 5:1 players equals 1.8:1 disc sales.

So we cant count the PS3 when it comes to the # of players sold but we use the total # of PS3s to bring the attach ratio down?

How did you get that out of what I wrote?

 

[destrekor]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: cliftonite

Originally posted by: Genx87
http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/35008/118/

HD-DVD in its first year has pushed 750K units. What I found most interesting in this article is DVD only sold 300K standalone units in its first year. This debunks the theory people arent interested in HD content. The transition from VHS to DVD imo was a bigger move than from DVD to HD-DVD\BluRay.

Should be interesting to see how many units they push in the last month.

Also if you want any more proof of the retention rate issue with the PS3 just look at the amount of PS3s in the channel vs HD-DVD and the sales ratio's. 5:1 players equals 1.8:1 disc sales.

So we cant count the PS3 when it comes to the # of players sold but we use the total # of PS3s to bring the attach ratio down?

How did you get that out of what I wrote?

it's rather easy to get that. look, we all know there are more standalone HD DVD players than BD players. But the PS3 is often used and is more popular for BD playback. So, included in that 5:1 sales ratio is ALL of the PS3's sold. Hmm, not all PS3's sold are used for BD playback, with, as I said about, a good number of them not being used for BD at all. So, that explains why it is a 5:1 hardware ratio and only a 1.8:1 software ratio: not all the hardware was purchased to buy BD movies.
but everyone likes to use a figure like that to say that HD DVD is faring better and is selling more software per player, but that's simply not true at all.

 

[zinfamous]

I have 23 BDs for my PS3, and 2 HD DVD for my A2.

...figure that attach ratio out

 

[cubby1223]

stand-a·lone /'stænd??lo?n/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[stand-uh-lohn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation Computers.
?adjective
1. self-contained and able to operate without other hardware or software.
?noun
2. a device or program with these characteristics.


Sounds like the PS3 is just as much a standalone as any Toshiba player.



This pointless format war did make it into people's top 10 tech train wrecks of 2007:
http://tech.yahoo.com/blogs/patterson/8538

 

[destrekor]

Originally posted by: cubby1223
stand-a·lone /'stænd??lo?n/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[stand-uh-lohn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation Computers.
?adjective
1. self-contained and able to operate without other hardware or software.
?noun
2. a device or program with these characteristics.


Sounds like the PS3 is just as much a standalone as any Toshiba player.



This pointless format war did make it into people's top 10 tech train wrecks of 2007:
http://tech.yahoo.com/blogs/patterson/8538

ugh. call it whatever you want, most of the PS3's sold are not being used for BD playback, but rather for its main purpose, console gaming. don't try and define it with... definitions, when you full well know what is implied when we say stand-alone players versus a PS3. :roll:

 

[JC86]

I also have 23 BD movies for my PS3, but that includes the 4 discs in Planet Earth, there discs in the ocean trilogy, and the 4 discs in the Die hard collection.

 

[JC86]

I think the argument for after Christmas boost in sales figures for HD-DVD goes both ways though. I'd imagine some parents might get their kids a PS3 for Christmas that can double as a BD player for their HT setup. In that case, the sales for BD titles ought to increase as well.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: destrekor

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: cliftonite

Originally posted by: Genx87
http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/35008/118/

HD-DVD in its first year has pushed 750K units. What I found most interesting in this article is DVD only sold 300K standalone units in its first year. This debunks the theory people arent interested in HD content. The transition from VHS to DVD imo was a bigger move than from DVD to HD-DVD\BluRay.

Should be interesting to see how many units they push in the last month.

Also if you want any more proof of the retention rate issue with the PS3 just look at the amount of PS3s in the channel vs HD-DVD and the sales ratio's. 5:1 players equals 1.8:1 disc sales.

So we cant count the PS3 when it comes to the # of players sold but we use the total # of PS3s to bring the attach ratio down?

How did you get that out of what I wrote?

it's rather easy to get that. look, we all know there are more standalone HD DVD players than BD players. But the PS3 is often used and is more popular for BD playback. So, included in that 5:1 sales ratio is ALL of the PS3's sold. Hmm, not all PS3's sold are used for BD playback, with, as I said about, a good number of them not being used for BD at all. So, that explains why it is a 5:1 hardware ratio and only a 1.8:1 software ratio: not all the hardware was purchased to buy BD movies.
but everyone likes to use a figure like that to say that HD DVD is faring better and is selling more software per player, but that's simply not true at all.

Well I did note that if anybody wants proof of the retention issues of the PS3. All they need to do is look at the hardware vs software sales ratio. And it is a perfectly valid point to bring up when looking at the purchasing power per player.

But what you said still doesnt explain how cliftonite arrived at his conclusion in his response.

 

[cubby1223]

and all anyone else needs to know is that the PS3 is single-handedly deciding the format war. 750k HD DVD standalones sold, which makes their attach rate what, 3-4? That sounds very pathetic too, considering every single HD DVD player is purchased for the sole purpose of playing HD DVD movies. Sounds like they're just taking the free movie bundles and sticking with upconverted dvd.

 

[vi edit]

Anyone have stats on rentals?

I can't help but think that at least some of the retail sales are being stolen by Blockbuster & Netflix rentals.

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: JC86
I also have 23 BD movies for my PS3, but that includes the 4 discs in Planet Earth, there discs in the ocean trilogy, and the 4 discs in the Die hard collection.

well, I counted my Planet Earth set as one, and the Spiderman trilogy individually...so...

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: vi_edit
Anyone have stats on rentals?

I can't help but think that at least some of the retail sales are being stolen by Blockbuster & Netflix rentals.

Netflix did a poll a month or so ago, where people voted on what they preferred, not what they actually rented.

I think people preferred HD DVD 2:1, but it had nothing to do with rentals. HD DVD rentals did skyrocket, however, but this mostly had to do with Blockbuster abandoning the format completely in favor of Blu Ray. I don't recall specific numbers, but rentals on Netflix where pretty even, then went in favor of HD DVD ~1.7:1 after Blockbuster dropped support. maybe it was greater, I don't know...

 

[Red Dawn]

Blu-ray outsells HD-DVD in Europe 73% to 27%

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Blu-ray outsells HD-DVD in Europe 73% to 27%

And the PS3 outsold the Wii in Japan last month too. Sales of the system are way up since the introduction of the $399 model.

The format war won't be "over" until actual sales profits outweigh buyout profits (e.g. Paramount), but I have a good hunch that HD-DVD will be relegated to <30% of the market through 2008 as the PS3 picks up steam.

The numbers are just too overwhelming, and Toshiba has not done enough to bring player prices down to counteract it.

 

[Genx87]

Sounds optimistic considering HD-DVD only got things together in the 3rd quarter of 07 and still maintained a ~35% disc market share. Now with sub 200 and eventually sub 150 dollar players they are going to lose ground to a 400 dollar PS3 that requires 5:1 units sales to hold ground?

With China basically adopting the HD-DVD standard for their domestic markets. I only see cheaper and cheaper HD-DVD units arriving and selling at much higher rates than we saw in 07.

I'd say your prediction might have merit if Sony has a profile 1.1 unit on the horizon in the sub 200 market.

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Blu-ray outsells HD-DVD in Europe 73% to 27%

And the PS3 outsold the Wii in Japan last month too. Sales of the system are way up since the introduction of the $399 model.

The format war won't be "over" until actual sales profits outweigh buyout profits (e.g. Paramount), but I have a good hunch that HD-DVD will be relegated to <30% of the market through 2008 as the PS3 picks up steam.

The numbers are just too overwhelming, and Toshiba has not done enough to bring player prices down to counteract it.

$99 is not low enough???

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Blu-ray outsells HD-DVD in Europe 73% to 27%

And the PS3 outsold the Wii in Japan last month too. Sales of the system are way up since the introduction of the $399 model.

The format war won't be "over" until actual sales profits outweigh buyout profits (e.g. Paramount), but I have a good hunch that HD-DVD will be relegated to <30% of the market through 2008 as the PS3 picks up steam.

The numbers are just too overwhelming, and Toshiba has not done enough to bring player prices down to counteract it.

$99 is not low enough???

exactly...but that was a 48 hour sale. standard price will be at the $200 mark (considering A2s are not being made anymore, and the A3 will become the flagship).

anyhoo, still a big move by HD DVD. it will take them some time to pick up the pace as more "regular" people realize that the prices have dropped, and have an actual need for these things.

Remember, HD TVs are expected to be the big X-Mas item this year, not HD players. the consumer has to catch up to the need for HD before these price drops have a significant effect.

It took me almost 9 months to hook up an HD player to my set (PS3), and that was only b/c my DVD player crapped out....I was more than willing to wait this war out another year or so, but I just couldn't justify buying a new SD DVD player at the time. of course, now I have an A2 and several HDM flicks....almost wish I enver started

 

[Shawn]

I am sure the Venturer player will get down to $149.99 in a few weeks, then $119.99 and maybe $99.99 if we are lucky.

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: Shawn
I am sure the Venturer player will get down to $149.99 in a few weeks, then $119.99 and maybe $99.99 if we are lucky.

oh yeah, forgot about that one.

 

[cubby1223]

Originally posted by: Shawn
I am sure the Venturer player will get down to $149.99 in a few weeks, then $119.99 and maybe $99.99 if we are lucky.

So in other words, consumer confidence will be assured by prices dropping 50% a month after introduction.

List off *any* product that has dropped so much in price in such little time? The only somewhat similar product I know of is the iPhone which dropped 33% after 2 months and approximately 1 million sold. Yet you are confident the Venturer will drop 50% after 1 month and *maybe* 100 thousand sold! And I'm throwing 100k out there as a very generous estimate.

 

[cubby1223]

Originally posted by: Genx87
Sounds optimistic considering HD-DVD only got things together in the 3rd quarter of 07 and still maintained a ~35% disc market share. Now with sub 200 and eventually sub 150 dollar players they are going to lose ground to a 400 dollar PS3 that requires 5:1 units sales to hold ground?

With China basically adopting the HD-DVD standard for their domestic markets. I only see cheaper and cheaper HD-DVD units arriving and selling at much higher rates than we saw in 07.

I'd say your prediction might have merit if Sony has a profile 1.1 unit on the horizon in the sub 200 market.

Your prediction might have merit if it weren't the exact same prediction made when the HD-A2 dipped below $300 for the first time. How'd that work out? Players have already dipped below $100, and it's not showing results. And the "Christmas gift" argument doesn't hold much weight either, as the January HD DVD release schedule is woefully weak.