HD-DVD versus Blu-Ray

[cubby1223]

Toshiba has just killed off the Onkyo HD DVD player with their below cost pricing model. I'd expect the Venturer to be next.
http://translate.google.com/tr...dvd-fantasma_2654.html

 

[PurdueRy]

Originally posted by: cubby1223
Toshiba has just killed off the Onkyo HD DVD player with their below cost pricing model. I'd expect the Venturer to be next.
http://translate.google.com/tr...dvd-fantasma_2654.html

Please provide proof that Toshiba is selling the their players below cost.

 

[jpeyton]

Text

Weeks after the $99 Wal-Mart HD-A2, HD-DVD has yet to make significant inroads on their software sales deficit.

Luckily, Paramount's exclusivity agreement should keep HD-DVD with around 1/3rd of the software market until the end of 2008.

 

[Shawn]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Text

Weeks after the $99 Wal-Mart HD-A2, HD-DVD has yet to make significant inroads on their software sales deficit.

Luckily, Paramount's exclusivity agreement should keep HD-DVD with around 1/3rd of the software market until the end of 2008.

I think many of those players were bought as christmas gifts, meaning it may take some time to see just how they have affected this format war. Also, Blu-ray has been putting out a lot of titles (including several big ones), while there haven't been many HD DVD releases for this holiday season. That combined with the fact the Sony and Disney keep offering BOGO every few weeks has prevented HD DVD from gaining significantly.

I think that we will have to wait until at least Q1 2008 before we have any idea of how things will turn out. HD DVD will have some more releases then, coupled with the fact that all of those cheap HD DVD players should be unboxed and in use. Also the cheap Venturer player should become readily available, so hopefully that will get even more people in the HD DVD camp.

I am guessing that by the end of Q1 2008 HD DVD will have pretty much caught up with Blu-ray. Regardless, even if things don't work out in HD DVD's favor, I don't see why it can't stick around with 1/3 of the market indefinitely, assuming that warner stays neutral.

 

[note235]

I might return my A2 for a PS3
Since more movies are coming out for BluRay.

And yet I cannot get the 360 then.
360+A2 ($100)
Ps3+A2

 

[Shawn]

Originally posted by: note235
I might return my A2 for a PS3
Since more movies are coming out for BluRay.

And yet I cannot get the 360 then.
360+A2 ($100)
Ps3+A2

Why would you do that? There are tons of movies for HD DVD already:
http://www.amazon.com/b/ref=am...7701&pf_rd_i=193642011

 

[note235]

Well none that I really want

since I have seen a lot of these on DVD already
and I love Spiderman 1/2

hmm maybe I should keep the player and buy the 360 or Ps3? and if not Ps3, then get bluray later?

 

[Shawn]

Well do you want an blu-ray player or a game console? The xbox360 is a much better choice than the PS3 for games if that's what's most important to you.

 

[Shawn]

BTW, here is something very interesting that I have found:

Disney Votes for 51GB HD DVD Media Approval.
Blu-Ray Backer Approves New HD DVD Standard

by Anton Shilov

Walt Disney Home Entertainment, a major Hollywood studio and one of the strongest backers of Blu-ray disc format, voted for approval of a preliminary specification of 51GB triple-layer HD DVD media, just like all the backers of HD DVD and unlike some other backers of Blu-ray Association within the DVD Forum, who typically abstain in HD DVD-related votes.


At the Steering Committee meeting in September Walt Disney Home Entertainment voted for triple layer twin-format HD DVD as well as triple layer HD DVD 51GB revision 1.9 preliminary media standards, according to the notes from the event available at the DVD Forum. During the meeting, twelve steering members of the DVD Forum out of twenty approved the former and eleven members approved the latter.

In both cases Walt Disney voted for the new HD DVD standards, whereas Samsung Electronics, which supports both Blu-ray and HD DVD with its Blu-ray disc (BD) and unified Blu-ray/HD DVD players, decided to abstain in voting for the 51GB HD DVD, just like some other members of the Blu-ray Association, who always withdraw from HD DVD votes, namely Hitachi, JVC, Mitsubishi, Panasonic, Philips, Pioneer, Sharp and Sony.

Just last week the DVD Forum approved revision 2.0 of triple-layer HD DVD 51GB media, but the detailed results of the vote were not available at press time.

The fact that Walt Disney Home Entertainment, which official stance has always been strong Blu-ray support, may be an indicator that even members of the Blu-ray Association are potentially interested in the forthcoming versions of the HD DVD standard, which has been competing against BD for nearly two years in a war that is unlikely to end soon and which is even called a "stalemate" by Sony's chief executive.

While this doesn't mean that Disney will go neutral anytime soon, it does seem as though it's a definitely possibility. After all, Disney was one of the major backers of interactive content and helped develop them for HD DVD. Why they went Blu-ray exclusive is a mystery.

 

[zinfamous]

yeah, imo the choices on Blu Ray are WAY better than what HD DVD has. I'm format neutral, btw. there is some great stuff that is HD DVD exclusive--but every single exclusive title they have that I consider worth owning I already have on DVD. I bought a PS3 to play Blu Ray. I would buy it ten times over before I paid + $100 on top of the PS3 price to get the same functionality out of a 360.

plenty of AV nuts who spend $20 grand + on their equipment buy PS3s. they don't give a shit about games (they shouldn't if they're buying a PS3 ) I could be wrong, but I've heard from a few sources that the 360 HD DVD player is quite low-end on top of that.

The most significant exclusive title for HD DVD has been Transformers. Blu Ray has Spiderman, now Die Hard, the Pirates movies...and the exclusives coming out over the next month are way better. granted, there are overall better neutral titles coming out in the next couple of months, but I think Blu Ray still has the edge in exclusives.

no mystery why Disney went Blu exclusive; they like big cash payouts as much as the next major corporation. Paramount, anyone? also, I'm guessing since Sony touted early on that they will be opposed to porn on Blu Ray, it matches with Disney's family friendly attitude....

I currently have ~23 Blu Ray (still waiting for my 5 free...hello??) and 2 HD DVD. say what you will about PCM and DD+ (I know I can't tell a difference-I only use DD anyway), I still think the consumer should have access to the best features when they are more than possible. HD DVD doesn't help itself by leaving out lossless tracks on the vast majority of their discs...and for no apparent reason.

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: Shawn

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Text

Weeks after the $99 Wal-Mart HD-A2, HD-DVD has yet to make significant inroads on their software sales deficit.

Luckily, Paramount's exclusivity agreement should keep HD-DVD with around 1/3rd of the software market until the end of 2008.

I think many of those players were bought as christmas gifts, meaning it may take some time to see just how they have affected this format war. Also, Blu-ray has been putting out a lot of titles (including several big ones), while there haven't been many HD DVD releases for this holiday season. That combined with the fact the Sony and Disney keep offering BOGO every few weeks has prevented HD DVD from gaining significantly.

I think that we will have to wait until at least Q1 2008 before we have any idea of how things will turn out. HD DVD will have some more releases then, coupled with the fact that all of those cheap HD DVD players should be unboxed and in use. Also the cheap Venturer player should become readily available, so hopefully that will get even more people in the HD DVD camp.

I am guessing that by the end of Q1 2008 HD DVD will have pretty much caught up with Blu-ray. Regardless, even if things don't work out in HD DVD's favor, I don't see why it can't stick around with 1/3 of the market indefinitely, assuming that warner stays neutral.

this is what I'm expecting to see too. although, thinking HD DVD will catch Blu Ray in sales by the end of Q1 is a pipe dream, but expect them to gain significant ground.

It baffles me that there wasn't a single HDM offering over Black Friday weekend at the B&M stores. While I expect sales to pick up after the gifts have been distributed, I'm sure there are plenty out there who would have liked to pick up a few discs to pack with their newly-acquired A2s and A3s. Maybe the HD DVD crowd will pull something out in the next few weeks...

I've been so spoiled by the recent Blu Ray BOGOs and price snafus that I just won't buy anything if it's more than $15

 

[Shawn]

Startrek TOS Season 1 Review is up:
http://hddvd.highdefdigest.com/600/startrektos_s1.html

 

[Eug]

Venturer SHD7000 = Toshiba HD-A3

Toshiba HD-A3 with 1.3 firmware:

Machine Code: HDA3TKU
Submicom Version: HDA3TU1000TD
Group ID: 0a
Model ID: 97
Package Version: 1300
NAND Version: 1101
NOR Version: 1300
WinCE Version: 1000
FWH Version 0511
Drive Version: 1150
Scaler Version: ......

Venturer SHD7000 with 1.1 firmware:

Machine Code: HDA3KAU
Submicom Version: HDA3TU1000TD
Group ID: 0a
Model ID: 97
Package Version: 1100
NAND Version: 0927
NOR Version: 1100
WinCE Version: 1000
FWH Version: 0511
Drive Version: 1150
Scaler Version: -----

-----

Meanwhile, Fuh Yuan/Forworld Electronics is making both BD and HD DVD loaders:

http://www.digitimes.com/systems/a20071127PB204.html

Blu-ray drive shipments will be 4000/month starting in January.
Their recent HD DVD drive order is 100000 units, with shipments to begin in April

HD DVD drives are only $57 each.

-----

Also, HD DVD says 750000 HD DVD players are now out there.

LOS ANGELES, Nov. 27 /PRNewswire/ -- Following landmark Black Friday promotions through major retail chains, the North American HD DVD Promotional Group today announced that sales of dedicated HD DVD players exceeded the 750,000 mark. The data is based on retailer reports and other point of sale data, and includes standalone set-top players as well as the Xbox 360 HD DVD player.

 

[destrekor]

Originally posted by: Eug
Venturer SHD7000 = Toshiba HD-A3

Toshiba HD-A3 with 1.3 firmware:

Machine Code: HDA3TKU
Submicom Version: HDA3TU1000TD
Group ID: 0a
Model ID: 97
Package Version: 1300
NAND Version: 1101
NOR Version: 1300
WinCE Version: 1000
FWH Version 0511
Drive Version: 1150
Scaler Version: ......

Venturer SHD7000 with 1.1 firmware:

Machine Code: HDA3KAU
Submicom Version: HDA3TU1000TD
Group ID: 0a
Model ID: 97
Package Version: 1100
NAND Version: 0927
NOR Version: 1100
WinCE Version: 1000
FWH Version: 0511
Drive Version: 1150
Scaler Version: -----

-----

Meanwhile, Fuh Yuan/Forworld Electronics is making both BD and HD DVD loaders:

http://www.digitimes.com/systems/a20071127PB204.html

Blu-ray drive shipments will be 4000/month starting in January.
Their recent HD DVD drive order is 100000 units, with shipments to begin in April

HD DVD drives are only $57 each.

-----

Also, HD DVD says 750000 HD DVD players are now out there.

LOS ANGELES, Nov. 27 /PRNewswire/ -- Following landmark Black Friday promotions through major retail chains, the North American HD DVD Promotional Group today announced that sales of dedicated HD DVD players exceeded the 750,000 mark. The data is based on retailer reports and other point of sale data, and includes standalone set-top players as well as the Xbox 360 HD DVD player.

so that's why the Toshiba players are so cheap? Because they are built by a crap company? Ugh. Toshiba needs to build the thing themselves. I will hate to read reports of their players failing sometime next year. But a great way to get their format in everyones hands! Meanwhile, Sony and Samsung are actually making their players themselves. Then again, they are also charging the premium everyone is used to with those two names. The BD camp needs a company like Venturer.

 

[dainthomas]

Originally posted by: Shawn
Startrek TOS Season 1 Review is up:
http://hddvd.highdefdigest.com/600/startrektos_s1.html

Looks like a lot of work went into it. I still wouldn't pay $200 though. If Blockbuster/Netflix gets them, I might rent one just to check it out.

Now it's time to put the movies on HD-DVD.

 

[Eug]

Originally posted by: destrekor
so that's why the Toshiba players are so cheap? Because they are built by a crap company? Ugh. Toshiba needs to build the thing themselves. I will hate to read reports of their players failing sometime next year. But a great way to get their format in everyones hands! Meanwhile, Sony and Samsung are actually making their players themselves. Then again, they are also charging the premium everyone is used to with those two names. The BD camp needs a company like Venturer.

The Sony PS3 is made in China.

Oh and Fuh Yuan (a Chinese company) will be making 4000 BD loaders a month.

You might want to check your facts next time.

 

[Shawn]

Originally posted by: dainthomas

Originally posted by: Shawn
Startrek TOS Season 1 Review is up:
http://hddvd.highdefdigest.com/600/startrektos_s1.html

Looks like a lot of work went into it. I still wouldn't pay $200 though. If Blockbuster/Netflix gets them, I might rent one just to check it out.

Now it's time to put the movies on HD-DVD.

It's $100 at deepdiscount after using the 20% off coupon.

 

[cubby1223]

Originally posted by: Eug

Originally posted by: destrekor
so that's why the Toshiba players are so cheap? Because they are built by a crap company? Ugh. Toshiba needs to build the thing themselves. I will hate to read reports of their players failing sometime next year. But a great way to get their format in everyones hands! Meanwhile, Sony and Samsung are actually making their players themselves. Then again, they are also charging the premium everyone is used to with those two names. The BD camp needs a company like Venturer.

The Sony PS3 is made in China.

Oh and Fuh Yuan (a Chinese company) will be making 4000 BD loaders a month.

You might want to check your facts next time.

And the Cell processor is made by Toshiba. :Q

 

[cubby1223]

Home Media Magazine put out the best sellers of 2007, goes
1) 300
2) Transformers
3) Planet Earth
4) The Departed
5) Casino Royale
6) Pirates Dead Man's Chest
7) Pirates Curse of the Black Pearl
8) Apocalypto
9) Spidey 3
10) Ghost Rider

I don't know about any top 10 list that includes Ghost Rider...

 

[destrekor]

Originally posted by: Eug

Originally posted by: destrekor
so that's why the Toshiba players are so cheap? Because they are built by a crap company? Ugh. Toshiba needs to build the thing themselves. I will hate to read reports of their players failing sometime next year. But a great way to get their format in everyones hands! Meanwhile, Sony and Samsung are actually making their players themselves. Then again, they are also charging the premium everyone is used to with those two names. The BD camp needs a company like Venturer.

The Sony PS3 is made in China.

Oh and Fuh Yuan (a Chinese company) will be making 4000 BD loaders a month.

You might want to check your facts next time.

does it matter where it made? it's the parts. they aren't rebadged units, is what I am saying. Sony doesn't rebadge devices from other firms.

oh, and instead of proving a blanket statement that is only partly true, provide the full facts: PS3s are made in both China and Japan.
And individual parts are almost always going to be from other companies. It's how they are all put together and what quality the individual parts are.

 

[Eug]

Originally posted by: destrekor

Originally posted by: Eug

Originally posted by: destrekor
so that's why the Toshiba players are so cheap? Because they are built by a crap company? Ugh. Toshiba needs to build the thing themselves. I will hate to read reports of their players failing sometime next year. But a great way to get their format in everyones hands! Meanwhile, Sony and Samsung are actually making their players themselves. Then again, they are also charging the premium everyone is used to with those two names. The BD camp needs a company like Venturer.

The Sony PS3 is made in China.

Oh and Fuh Yuan (a Chinese company) will be making 4000 BD loaders a month.

You might want to check your facts next time.

does it matter where it made? it's the parts. they aren't rebadged units, is what I am saying. Sony doesn't rebadge devices from other firms.

oh, and instead of proving a blanket statement that is only partly true, provide the full facts: PS3s are made in both China and Japan.
And individual parts are almost always going to be from other companies. It's how they are all put together and what quality the individual parts are.

Toshiba contracts out to a Chinese manufacturer, just like Sony. The Venturer is a rebadged Toshiba, not the other way around.

Furthermore, some Toshiba units were made in Japan as well.

 

[Ricochet]

Originally posted by: cubby1223
Home Media Magazine put out the best sellers of 2007, goes
1) 300
2) Transformers
3) Planet Earth
4) The Departed
5) Casino Royale
6) Pirates Dead Man's Chest
7) Pirates Curse of the Black Pearl
8) Apocalypto
9) Spidey 3
10) Ghost Rider

I don't know about any top 10 list that includes Ghost Rider...

Ghost Rider?? That is one of the sh!tiest movie I've ever seen in recent memory. Why anyone would want to own a copy baffles the mind.

 

[destrekor]

Originally posted by: Eug

Originally posted by: destrekor

Originally posted by: Eug

Originally posted by: destrekor
so that's why the Toshiba players are so cheap? Because they are built by a crap company? Ugh. Toshiba needs to build the thing themselves. I will hate to read reports of their players failing sometime next year. But a great way to get their format in everyones hands! Meanwhile, Sony and Samsung are actually making their players themselves. Then again, they are also charging the premium everyone is used to with those two names. The BD camp needs a company like Venturer.

The Sony PS3 is made in China.

Oh and Fuh Yuan (a Chinese company) will be making 4000 BD loaders a month.

You might want to check your facts next time.

does it matter where it made? it's the parts. they aren't rebadged units, is what I am saying. Sony doesn't rebadge devices from other firms.

oh, and instead of proving a blanket statement that is only partly true, provide the full facts: PS3s are made in both China and Japan.
And individual parts are almost always going to be from other companies. It's how they are all put together and what quality the individual parts are.

Toshiba contracts out to a Chinese manufacturer, just like Sony. The Venturer is a rebadged Toshiba, not the other way around.

Furthermore, some Toshiba units were made in Japan as well.

how are you so sure the rebadge is one way and not the other? And where a product is manufactured means nothing. I understand full well the idea of contracting out to companies to assemble your product, as well as using other companies components in the assembly of said product.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Text

Weeks after the $99 Wal-Mart HD-A2, HD-DVD has yet to make significant inroads on their software sales deficit.

Luckily, Paramount's exclusivity agreement should keep HD-DVD with around 1/3rd of the software market until the end of 2008.

Nielson will mean less and less as time goes on due to Walmart entering the market. I am also curious how many of those ~100K units sold in 3 days are christmas presents. Which means you wont see the effects of those units until the 1st qtr.

 

[cubby1223]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Text

Weeks after the $99 Wal-Mart HD-A2, HD-DVD has yet to make significant inroads on their software sales deficit.

Luckily, Paramount's exclusivity agreement should keep HD-DVD with around 1/3rd of the software market until the end of 2008.

Nielson will mean less and less as time goes on due to Walmart entering the market. I am also curious how many of those ~100K units sold in 3 days are christmas presents. Which means you wont see the effects of those units until the 1st qtr.

Well, Nielson is the *best* information available to us. If it doesn't agree with your personal format preference, that's not our concern. :laugh:

I'm also curious how many of those ~100k units sold in 3 days are purchased as a second player in the home. Which means you won't see the effects of those units *ever*.