HD-DVD versus Blu-Ray

[JackBurton]

Originally posted by: JC86

Originally posted by: zinfamous

Originally posted by: JC86
There was an entry on Gizmodo saying that Toshiba is losing around $400 dollars per $100 unit sold. Plus, judging by the lack of inventory at Wal-Marts and BB, it seems like this was just Toshiba's way of clearing inventory and generating buzz around HD-DVD. There will probably be a spike in HDDVD sales for the week but Ratatouille and Cars are coming to BD today, i'm sure it'll even it out and maintain the status quo of the format war to this point.

that article was BS. the blogger was speculating Toshiba's cost on the A2 based on supposed costs of the A1....we know that's pretty ridiculous.

I don't think it's ridiculous to speculate on how much money Toshiba is losing on this deal. Let's face it, Toshiba may have been the first to break the price point but it was a flash in the pan sale. There is no way Toshiba can maintain a player below $100 this year. There is also no way in hell that Toshiba is making a profit off of these players at this point. I tend to agree that this sounds like a move of desperation from the HDDVD camp, which were hoping that Transformers would shift the format war in favor of HDDVD only to have Spider Man maintain the status quo.

For Christ's sake, there is a thread already pretty much dedicated to this moronic site (Gizmodo). You don't think it is ridiculous to speculate how much money Toshiba is losing? Well I'm going to "speculate" each manufacturer producing Blu-Ray players is losing $10,000 on each player. WOW! Now go pass that around the web and pretend it's factual. :roll: The freakin' player (HD-A2) RETAILS for $177.88 at Circuit City! That is the REGULAR PRICE! It is also the OLDER player being replaced by the A3. How is $99 something crazy. Is it a great deal? Yes. Is it something unimaginable? No. I wouldn't call a $78 price drop, a fire sale. Especially since it is on their older model.

I get the impression this Toshiba deal caught the Blu-Ray community by surprise and are now crying foul and making up all kinds of BS about HD-DVD. Selling $99 HD-DVD players is a sign of desperation? Then what do you call taking a MONSTER loss on each PS3 just to force your hand in Blu-Ray? Give me a freakin' break.

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: JC86

Originally posted by: zinfamous

Originally posted by: JC86
There was an entry on Gizmodo saying that Toshiba is losing around $400 dollars per $100 unit sold. Plus, judging by the lack of inventory at Wal-Marts and BB, it seems like this was just Toshiba's way of clearing inventory and generating buzz around HD-DVD. There will probably be a spike in HDDVD sales for the week but Ratatouille and Cars are coming to BD today, i'm sure it'll even it out and maintain the status quo of the format war to this point.

that article was BS. the blogger was speculating Toshiba's cost on the A2 based on supposed costs of the A1....we know that's pretty ridiculous.

I don't think it's ridiculous to speculate on how much money Toshiba is losing on this deal. Let's face it, Toshiba may have been the first to break the price point but it was a flash in the pan sale. There is no way Toshiba can maintain a player below $100 this year. There is also no way in hell that Toshiba is making a profit off of these players at this point. I tend to agree that this sounds like a move of desperation from the HDDVD camp, which were hoping that Transformers would shift the format war in favor of HDDVD only to have Spider Man maintain the status quo.

It isn't ridiculous to speculate. However, it is ridiculous to go about speculating the way that the gizmodo blogger was speculating.

 

[destrekor]

Originally posted by: JackBurton

Originally posted by: JC86

Originally posted by: zinfamous

Originally posted by: JC86
There was an entry on Gizmodo saying that Toshiba is losing around $400 dollars per $100 unit sold. Plus, judging by the lack of inventory at Wal-Marts and BB, it seems like this was just Toshiba's way of clearing inventory and generating buzz around HD-DVD. There will probably be a spike in HDDVD sales for the week but Ratatouille and Cars are coming to BD today, i'm sure it'll even it out and maintain the status quo of the format war to this point.

that article was BS. the blogger was speculating Toshiba's cost on the A2 based on supposed costs of the A1....we know that's pretty ridiculous.

I don't think it's ridiculous to speculate on how much money Toshiba is losing on this deal. Let's face it, Toshiba may have been the first to break the price point but it was a flash in the pan sale. There is no way Toshiba can maintain a player below $100 this year. There is also no way in hell that Toshiba is making a profit off of these players at this point. I tend to agree that this sounds like a move of desperation from the HDDVD camp, which were hoping that Transformers would shift the format war in favor of HDDVD only to have Spider Man maintain the status quo.

For Christ's sake, there is a thread already pretty much dedicated to this moronic site (Gizmodo). You don't think it is ridiculous to speculate how much money Toshiba is losing? Well I'm going to "speculate" each manufacturer producing Blu-Ray players is losing $10,000 on each player. WOW! Now go pass that around the web and pretend it's factual. :roll: The freakin' player (HD-A2) RETAILS for $177.88 at Circuit City! That is the REGULAR PRICE! It is also the OLDER player being replaced by the A3. How is $99 something crazy. Is it a great deal? Yes. Is it something unimaginable? No. I wouldn't call a $78 price drop, a fire sale. Especially since it is on their older model.

I get the impression this Toshiba deal caught the Blu-Ray community by surprise and are now crying foul and making up all kinds of BS about HD-DVD. Selling $99 HD-DVD players is a sign of desperation? Then what do you call taking a MONSTER loss on each PS3 just to force your hand in Blu-Ray? Give me a freakin' break.

i don't understand what your so upset about.
fact is, the HD-A1 sold for a loss, at retail when it was launched at $499 MSRP. Every source I've seen sites it as having cost somewhere beween $600-700 to manufacture. That's a loss.
I'm not claiming these current units are sold at a loss, it's possible, and it's possible it was a further loss when it was on sale for less than $100. However, oh well. I don't cry foul. That's Toshiba's business decision to make, and if they feel the risk is worth the potential financial loss, so be it. Sony simply cannot afford to do with, since they already have the PS3 being sold at loss (at least it was, if it is anymore is any body's guess).

however, this horse has been beat to a bloody mess.

 

[JackBurton]

Originally posted by: destrekor
i don't understand what your so upset about.
fact is, the HD-A1 sold for a loss, at retail when it was launched at $499 MSRP. Every source I've seen sites it as having cost somewhere beween $600-700 to manufacture. That's a loss.
I'm not claiming these current units are sold at a loss, it's possible, and it's possible it was a further loss when it was on sale for less than $100. However, oh well. I don't cry foul. That's Toshiba's business decision to make, and if they feel the risk is worth the potential financial loss, so be it. Sony simply cannot afford to do with, since they already have the PS3 being sold at loss (at least it was, if it is anymore is any body's guess).

however, this horse has been beat to a bloody mess.

The HD-A2 was also launched at $500. Do you think Toshiba was losing the same amount of money on the A2 as they were on the A1? If you knew what you were talking about, you'd know the A1 was a monster. Basically a PC with HD-DVD drive. And I'm sure much more costly to produce for two reasons, it was the FIRST gen HD-DVD player, and it was basically a PC. In one generation, Toshiba did an amazing job of drastically shrinking the player (A2) and I'm sure they cut quite a bit of cost. If they were losing $100-$200 per A1 @ $500, Toshiba should have been MAKING money on the A2 @ $500. And that was at launch. Since then production costs I'm sure have been reduced greatly and again, CC is selling the A2 for $178 at regular price. So I really don't consider a $79 price drop a drastic cut. I'd call it a great sale. And AGAIN, one last time, it is THEIR OLDER PLAYER.

 

[PurdueRy]

If they lower the HD-A3 to $150 or less from thanksgiving to xmas...I am going to be it will be the "tech gift of xmas"

Just one man's opinion. But when there is so little to lose even the wary are willing to jump in.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: JC86
There was an entry on Gizmodo saying that Toshiba is losing around $400 dollars per $100 unit sold. Plus, judging by the lack of inventory at Wal-Marts and BB, it seems like this was just Toshiba's way of clearing inventory and generating buzz around HD-DVD. There will probably be a spike in HDDVD sales for the week but Ratatouille and Cars are coming to BD today, i'm sure it'll even it out and maintain the status quo of the format war to this point.

Bunk, if it is the same thing I saw they were basing the costs on the A1. A1 has different hardware than the A2. I am willing to bet manufacturing costs of the A2 is ~100 bucks. They sell them to Walmart for 50 bucks and eat 50 bucks a unit. Chump change considering the damage Toshiba just inflicted on BluRay.

 

[Genx87]

In case people havent seen this. A big old shot across BluRays bow.

http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6498141.html

Toshiba HD-A2 model sells 90,000 over weekend

Within three days, Toshiba corralled nearly as many sales as the best-selling stand-alone Blu-ray Disc player has sold since its launch. Sony?s dominant Blu-ray set-top, the $499 BDP-S300, has shipped about 100,000 since it bowed this summer.

Huge, absolutley huge.

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: destrekor

Originally posted by: JackBurton

Originally posted by: JC86

Originally posted by: zinfamous

Originally posted by: JC86
There was an entry on Gizmodo saying that Toshiba is losing around $400 dollars per $100 unit sold. Plus, judging by the lack of inventory at Wal-Marts and BB, it seems like this was just Toshiba's way of clearing inventory and generating buzz around HD-DVD. There will probably be a spike in HDDVD sales for the week but Ratatouille and Cars are coming to BD today, i'm sure it'll even it out and maintain the status quo of the format war to this point.

that article was BS. the blogger was speculating Toshiba's cost on the A2 based on supposed costs of the A1....we know that's pretty ridiculous.

I don't think it's ridiculous to speculate on how much money Toshiba is losing on this deal. Let's face it, Toshiba may have been the first to break the price point but it was a flash in the pan sale. There is no way Toshiba can maintain a player below $100 this year. There is also no way in hell that Toshiba is making a profit off of these players at this point. I tend to agree that this sounds like a move of desperation from the HDDVD camp, which were hoping that Transformers would shift the format war in favor of HDDVD only to have Spider Man maintain the status quo.

For Christ's sake, there is a thread already pretty much dedicated to this moronic site (Gizmodo). You don't think it is ridiculous to speculate how much money Toshiba is losing? Well I'm going to "speculate" each manufacturer producing Blu-Ray players is losing $10,000 on each player. WOW! Now go pass that around the web and pretend it's factual. :roll: The freakin' player (HD-A2) RETAILS for $177.88 at Circuit City! That is the REGULAR PRICE! It is also the OLDER player being replaced by the A3. How is $99 something crazy. Is it a great deal? Yes. Is it something unimaginable? No. I wouldn't call a $78 price drop, a fire sale. Especially since it is on their older model.

I get the impression this Toshiba deal caught the Blu-Ray community by surprise and are now crying foul and making up all kinds of BS about HD-DVD. Selling $99 HD-DVD players is a sign of desperation? Then what do you call taking a MONSTER loss on each PS3 just to force your hand in Blu-Ray? Give me a freakin' break.

i don't understand what your so upset about.
fact is, the HD-A1 sold for a loss, at retail when it was launched at $499 MSRP. Every source I've seen sites it as having cost somewhere beween $600-700 to manufacture. That's a loss.
I'm not claiming these current units are sold at a loss, it's possible, and it's possible it was a further loss when it was on sale for less than $100. However, oh well. I don't cry foul. That's Toshiba's business decision to make, and if they feel the risk is worth the potential financial loss, so be it. Sony simply cannot afford to do with, since they already have the PS3 being sold at loss (at least it was, if it is anymore is any body's guess).

however, this horse has been beat to a bloody mess.

this is what practically every company does when introducing new CE tech, hoping to own particular markets. This is how Sony lost to VHS, Sony did this when introducing Mini DV (nearly $400 lost per camcorder sold in its earliest days), and this is what both Blu Ray and HD DVD have been doing from day one. Nothing wrong about it--we get cheaper stuff. Why complain? It could be that these two monsters undersell themselves to the point of collapse, at which point a third format noses in and takes over.

My Money is on the Lucas-branded "Skywalker" SWDVD. Developed to play only the Star Wars Septilogy at its highest possible quality. No other movies will be adapted to play on this format, and the hardware will sell for $1000, (mandatory quarterly firmware updates at $15 a pop) with each film selling individually for 50 bucks each. Greedo will shoot first in HD--multiple times--and Darth Vader's head will be digitally replaced with that of Haden Christiansen through the duration of the original trilogy. Lucas will make another billion off of this, b/c every nerd will buy into it regardless, all the while bitching about the changes.

 

[CMC79]

I don't see what the big deal is even if Toshiba takes a loss--taking a short term hit (especially with "obsolete" hardware) to get market share is a perfectly viable strategy as long as the rewards materialize and the cost isn't too high. Banks do this all the time with CD specials--they're "buying" their core deposits so they can loan out even more money. Besides, the PS3 is sold for heavy loss and surely accounts for part of BD's sales. If Toshiba has the cash to do so, why not? The pittance they lose on these players or even the $150 million to Paramount is chump change compared to the money they can make if they "win" the format wars.

 

[Eug]

Originally posted by: Genx87
In case people havent seen this. A big old shot across BluRays bow.

http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6498141.html

Toshiba HD-A2 model sells 90,000 over weekend

Within three days, Toshiba corralled nearly as many sales as the best-selling stand-alone Blu-ray Disc player has sold since its launch. Sony?s dominant Blu-ray set-top, the $499 BDP-S300, has shipped about 100,000 since it bowed this summer.

Huge, absolutley huge.

That'sa lotta meataballza.

BTW, I had been predicting maybe around 50000 or so, so this is pretty impressive. I thought the guys predicting 100000 were being a little too fanboy-optimistic, but it looks like those guys were a heluvalot more accurate than I was.

 

[destrekor]

Originally posted by: CMC79
I don't see what the big deal is even if Toshiba takes a loss--taking a short term hit (especially with "obsolete" hardware) to get market share is a perfectly viable strategy as long as the rewards materialize and the cost isn't too high. Banks do this all the time with CD specials--they're "buying" their core deposits so they can loan out even more money. Besides, the PS3 is sold for heavy loss and surely accounts for part of BD's sales. If Toshiba has the cash to do so, why not? The pittance they lose on these players or even the $150 million to Paramount is chump change compared to the money they can make if they "win" the format wars.

there is no problem, I've been merely remarking on the idea that it's the reason HD DVD is currently so much cheaper than BD. No other HD DVD manufacturer is selling such cheap HD DVD players (honestly, I don't even know: who else makes other stand-alone HD DVD players. I know of sets that play both HD DVD and BD...). I don't expect companies like Samsung or the other BD companies to take a loss on technology. That's the unfortunate thing here, that due to the PS3, Sony cannot take any further losses. And with Samsung and the rest of the gang not likely wanting to gamble that much, specifically due to the lack of royalties (are is there position on the board for BD able to earn them royalties for BD sales?).

There are some things I don't know about on both sides as far as the corporate side of things goes, evidenced in this very post. but simply, I agree with the notion of selling below cost to get yourself in the market. To clarify, I've simply been commenting on Sony's lack of willing/ability to do the very same thing, as well as the other companies tied to BD.

hopefully that trend continues.
Hopefully Warner doesn't side with HD DVD, because that is only going to further drag on this war. Sony, MGM, Fox, Lionsgate, and Disney vs Universal, Warner, and Paramount. Ugh, sounds like a never-ending battle to me if it comes down to that.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Time will tell whether this draws certain Blu-Ray exclusive studios over to produce titles for HD DVD now that there are more inexpensive players available with a more widespread audience possible as a result.

 

[CMC79]

Originally posted by: destrekor

Originally posted by: CMC79
I don't see what the big deal is even if Toshiba takes a loss--taking a short term hit (especially with "obsolete" hardware) to get market share is a perfectly viable strategy as long as the rewards materialize and the cost isn't too high. Banks do this all the time with CD specials--they're "buying" their core deposits so they can loan out even more money. Besides, the PS3 is sold for heavy loss and surely accounts for part of BD's sales. If Toshiba has the cash to do so, why not? The pittance they lose on these players or even the $150 million to Paramount is chump change compared to the money they can make if they "win" the format wars.

there is no problem, I've been merely remarking on the idea that it's the reason HD DVD is currently so much cheaper than BD. No other HD DVD manufacturer is selling such cheap HD DVD players (honestly, I don't even know: who else makes other stand-alone HD DVD players. I know of sets that play both HD DVD and BD...). I don't expect companies like Samsung or the other BD companies to take a loss on technology. That's the unfortunate thing here, that due to the PS3, Sony cannot take any further losses. And with Samsung and the rest of the gang not likely wanting to gamble that much, specifically due to the lack of royalties (are is there position on the board for BD able to earn them royalties for BD sales?).

There are some things I don't know about on both sides as far as the corporate side of things goes, evidenced in this very post. but simply, I agree with the notion of selling below cost to get yourself in the market. To clarify, I've simply been commenting on Sony's lack of willing/ability to do the very same thing, as well as the other companies tied to BD.

hopefully that trend continues.
Hopefully Warner doesn't side with HD DVD, because that is only going to further drag on this war. Sony, MGM, Fox, Lionsgate, and Disney vs Universal, Warner, and Paramount. Ugh, sounds like a never-ending battle to me if it comes down to that.

I think Onkyo makes a HD DVD player now--it might be a rebadged Toshiba for all I know. I'm sure it's far more expensive. But you're right--no one else making BD players is going to stick their neck out for Sony, and Sony cannot afford to take massive losses for market share in two different major areas. Toshiba, coupled with Microsoft's pile of cash and their additional motive to skewer Sony, seems to be in a better position to go for a "race to the bottom" with regard to player costs. Only Disney, who has run several good promotions (as well as having significant BD only titles) seems to be helping Sony out (the BOGO a couple of weeks ago, and the $10 off any two this week). With all of that, I would cautiously say that HD DVD has the definite momentum right now, EXCEPT I think BD has a better slate of titles coming out between now and Christmas. (All 4 Die Hard movies, the third "Pirates" movie, Cars and Ratatouille, Independence Day, Simpsons, Lost Season 3 vs. Bourne, Star Trek Season 1, BSG, and Shrek the Third. I'm going to give the edge here to BD--no "Transformers" seem to be lurking in that list for HD DVD.)

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Eug

Originally posted by: Genx87
In case people havent seen this. A big old shot across BluRays bow.

http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6498141.html

Toshiba HD-A2 model sells 90,000 over weekend

Within three days, Toshiba corralled nearly as many sales as the best-selling stand-alone Blu-ray Disc player has sold since its launch. Sony?s dominant Blu-ray set-top, the $499 BDP-S300, has shipped about 100,000 since it bowed this summer.

Huge, absolutley huge.

That'sa lotta meataballza.

BTW, I had been predicting maybe around 50000 or so, so this is pretty impressive. I thought the guys predicting 100000 were being a little too fanboy-optimistic, but it looks like those guys were a heluvalot more accurate than I was.

One thing is I dont believe this includes the A3's that were replacement units from BB. Be curious to know how many A3s moved as well.

 

[JackBurton]

Originally posted by: Genx87
In case people havent seen this. A big old shot across BluRays bow.

http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6498141.html

Toshiba HD-A2 model sells 90,000 over weekend

Within three days, Toshiba corralled nearly as many sales as the best-selling stand-alone Blu-ray Disc player has sold since its launch. Sony?s dominant Blu-ray set-top, the $499 BDP-S300, has shipped about 100,000 since it bowed this summer.

Huge, absolutley huge.

LOL, VERY nice! 90,000 over the weekend? That's CRAZY! I love it! Now they can go to the movie studios and say, "hey, look at this monstrous HD-DVD base we have. Now come to our side."

 

[CMC79]

The question is, will the studios make a decision based on moving 90,000 units? Even if every one of those owners went on a movie buying spree, the numbers of HD DVDs sold wouldn't compare to regular DVD. The big question is: who can sustain sales through Christmas? As I pointed out above, the edge in big releases between now and then is on BD's side. HD DVD needs Paramount/Dreamworks and Universal to start digging into their back catalogs to add some heft to the release line up. Gladiator and Braveheart would be two ideal titles to ready.

 

[PurdueRy]

Originally posted by: CMC79
The question is, will the studios make a decision based on moving 90,000 units? Even if every one of those owners went on a movie buying spree, the numbers of HD DVDs sold wouldn't compare to regular DVD. The big question is: who can sustain sales through Christmas? As I pointed out above, the edge in big releases between now and then is on BD's side. HD DVD needs Paramount/Dreamworks and Universal to start digging into their back catalogs to add some heft to the release line up. Gladiator and Braveheart would be two ideal titles to ready.

I would DEFINITELY be up for Gladiator

 

[cubby1223]

AVS has finally shut down there forums, can't say I'm surprised. Well, I'm actually surprised it took this long:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb...cement.php?f=152&a=116

It gets quite humorous over there when you have guys with total custom built dedicated home theater rooms (talking the full theater experience at home), being lectured about acceptable quality levels by someone with a 50" 720p display.

 

[JackBurton]

Originally posted by: cubby1223
AVS has finally shut down there forums, can't say I'm surprised. Well, I'm actually surprised it took this long:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb...cement.php?f=152&a=116

It gets quite humorous over there when you have guys with total custom built dedicated home theater rooms (talking the full theater experience at home), being lectured about acceptable quality levels by someone with a 50" 720p display.

LOL.

 

[CMC79]

Originally posted by: cubby1223
AVS has finally shut down there forums, can't say I'm surprised. Well, I'm actually surprised it took this long:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb...cement.php?f=152&a=116

It gets quite humorous over there when you have guys with total custom built dedicated home theater rooms (talking the full theater experience at home), being lectured about acceptable quality levels by someone with a 50" 720p display.

I don't get the vitriol from people backing one or the other. I have both. Both are very nice, and while it'd be more convenient if there were only one, having two for now has helped drive down prices. I know I own more movies that are in HD because the two sides have competed so strongly and given good deals.

 

[montypythizzle]

OMGZ, liek wat iz teh bast 4mat?!?!

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: CMC79
The question is, will the studios make a decision based on moving 90,000 units? Even if every one of those owners went on a movie buying spree, the numbers of HD DVDs sold wouldn't compare to regular DVD. The big question is: who can sustain sales through Christmas? As I pointed out above, the edge in big releases between now and then is on BD's side. HD DVD needs Paramount/Dreamworks and Universal to start digging into their back catalogs to add some heft to the release line up. Gladiator and Braveheart would be two ideal titles to ready.

Last weekend was the first sale and they pushed ~100K units. It isnt impossible they push near 1 million for the whole holiday season. That will sway some people's mind. Like I have been saying for months. The format that gains mass adoption wins.

 

[Eug]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: CMC79
The question is, will the studios make a decision based on moving 90,000 units? Even if every one of those owners went on a movie buying spree, the numbers of HD DVDs sold wouldn't compare to regular DVD. The big question is: who can sustain sales through Christmas? As I pointed out above, the edge in big releases between now and then is on BD's side. HD DVD needs Paramount/Dreamworks and Universal to start digging into their back catalogs to add some heft to the release line up. Gladiator and Braveheart would be two ideal titles to ready.

Last weekend was the first sale and they pushed ~100K units. It isnt impossible they push near 1 million for the whole holiday season. That will sway some people's mind. Like I have been saying for months. The format that gains mass adoption wins.

I was predicting a few hundred thousand for the holidays. One million seems extremely optimistic.

Cool. The above lines were entered by voice dictation.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Eug

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: CMC79
The question is, will the studios make a decision based on moving 90,000 units? Even if every one of those owners went on a movie buying spree, the numbers of HD DVDs sold wouldn't compare to regular DVD. The big question is: who can sustain sales through Christmas? As I pointed out above, the edge in big releases between now and then is on BD's side. HD DVD needs Paramount/Dreamworks and Universal to start digging into their back catalogs to add some heft to the release line up. Gladiator and Braveheart would be two ideal titles to ready.

Last weekend was the first sale and they pushed ~100K units. It isnt impossible they push near 1 million for the whole holiday season. That will sway some people's mind. Like I have been saying for months. The format that gains mass adoption wins.

I was predicting a few hundred thousand for the holidays. One million seems extremely optimistic.

Cool. The above lines were entered by voice dictation.

I figured 500,000 at most. But they have already achieved 20% of that 3 weeks before the official start of the holiday season

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: JackBurton

Originally posted by: cubby1223
AVS has finally shut down there forums, can't say I'm surprised. Well, I'm actually surprised it took this long:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb...cement.php?f=152&a=116

It gets quite humorous over there when you have guys with total custom built dedicated home theater rooms (talking the full theater experience at home), being lectured about acceptable quality levels by someone with a 50" 720p display.

LOL.

good thing us at AT are too mature to fall into petty bickering about HD formats and the HD industry in general.