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HD-DVD versus Blu-Ray: The Format War (old)

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Originally posted by: zinfamous
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Arkaign
So awesome that a format finally won. I didn't really care which one, but now we can all move forward. HD-DVD is the new Betamax, only without a long-term market presence (Beta was prevalent in Japan until DVD took over). Could have easily gone the other way. Given that HD-DVD players were cheaper, it's sort of a shame on the short term, but I bet by Xmas '08 we'll see $149 or even $99 Blu-Ray player deals.
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Maybe profile 1.0 closeout deals. I havent seen any units on the horizon that are debuting for cheaper than 299. I really doubt we will see a 99 dollar 1.1 or better BluRay device for 12+ months. Contrary to popular belief a single format wont reduce prices. Only confusion for the consumers.
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so, you're saying that one format will be more confusing to consumers than two formats would have been?
..... ...

plus, several manufacturers make Blu Ray hardware, and several more are currently stepping up to the table. These manufacturers will be competing among themselves, and yes, reducing prices. other than the Onkyo that never materialized, Toshiba has been the only HD DVD hardware manufacturer.
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No, what I said was it wont reduce cost to the consumers, only reduce the confusion.
Yes Toshiba has been the only manufacturer and amazingly had deals for 1/3rd the cost of the cheapest BluRay players at the time 😀

Ill be really surprised if we see 149 dollar 1.1 players in 11 months. Though I would be happy if we did, as it would make it easier for me to go format neutral.
 
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: zinfamous
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Arkaign
So awesome that a format finally won. I didn't really care which one, but now we can all move forward. HD-DVD is the new Betamax, only without a long-term market presence (Beta was prevalent in Japan until DVD took over). Could have easily gone the other way. Given that HD-DVD players were cheaper, it's sort of a shame on the short term, but I bet by Xmas '08 we'll see $149 or even $99 Blu-Ray player deals.
Click to expand...

Maybe profile 1.0 closeout deals. I havent seen any units on the horizon that are debuting for cheaper than 299. I really doubt we will see a 99 dollar 1.1 or better BluRay device for 12+ months. Contrary to popular belief a single format wont reduce prices. Only confusion for the consumers.
Click to expand...

so, you're saying that one format will be more confusing to consumers than two formats would have been?
..... ...

plus, several manufacturers make Blu Ray hardware, and several more are currently stepping up to the table. These manufacturers will be competing among themselves, and yes, reducing prices. other than the Onkyo that never materialized, Toshiba has been the only HD DVD hardware manufacturer.
Click to expand...

No, what I said was it wont reduce cost to the consumers, only reduce the confusion.
Yes Toshiba has been the only manufacturer and amazingly had deals for 1/3rd the cost of the cheapest BluRay players at the time 😀

Ill be really surprised if we see 149 dollar 1.1 players in 11 months. Though I would be happy if we did, as it would make it easier for me to go format neutral.
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Oh, gotcha. Now I see how I misread that 😉

I'd love to see cheaper 1.1 (2.0 capable...) BD players soon, but I don't see that happening this year either. although, didn't Samsung announce a $299 1.1 player yesterday? Seems to me that you may be able to find something like this for under $200 on BF.

I went neutral during the A2 fire sale. glad I did 🙂
 
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Queasy
Originally posted by: destrekor
And has it been stated a PS3 is required? And not just a player that has memory card slots? Mind you, it probably takes advantage of some of the PS3 hardware, such as the hard drive, to accomplish the file transfer.
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Yes. Everything I've read has been along the lines of this.

I've just published the liveblog of the Blu-ray press conference at CES (you can read it here), but one element in particular is worth pulling out. There was talk of a new feature where you'll be able to put a Blu-ray disc in your PS3, and within seconds, have a copy of the movie ready to transfer to your PSP.

It sounds great. But the big question is, will it be the death knell for UMD as a movie format? In other words, why would you buy UMD discs, when you can just buy the Blu-ray version and then have a digital copy ready for transferring to PSP?

Okay, so UMD isn't exactly thriving - this is more of a last straw than a mortal blow. But it's clear that for the big movie studios, PSP is increasingly a device to target digitally, rather than with discs. Poor old UMD. Perhaps it can mope in a corner with HD DVD...
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I've never seen a stand-alone Blu-Ray player mentioned. Only the PS3.

Don't get me wrong. It is a nice feature but it is just disappointing that this is limited to the PS3 and PSP instead of including other video playback devices.
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How much memory does a PSP have? I was under the impression the biggest it has was 8GB?
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It has a memory card slot so it can be as big as the memory card. I think the Sony Memory Cards go to 16GB.
 
Originally posted by: dainthomas
Originally posted by: zinfamous
Toshiba has been the only HD DVD hardware manufacturer.
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So imagine how cheap they would have been WITH competition.

Alas.
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If there were more HD DVD hardware manufacturers, player prices would have been higher.

Even though it seems counter-intuitive, remember that giant corporations are accountable to the stock-holders, and usually do not develop product lines for charity.
 
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: sandorski
Glad to see the format war coming to an end. Now I await the affordable Drives.
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Those BluRay manufacturers cant wait to deliver them as well.

Sharp has a pair of 1.1 units they will be debuting at 399 and 599 in May 😀
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That's great but $400+ and $600+ are not affordable in my book. When I dropped $200+ on my Denon 1910 I was told I was crazy to spend that much on a DVD player. I picked up the Toshiba A3 for $99 and while it doesn't look good for HD-DVD it will still play standard DVD's so it's not a total loss.
 
Originally posted by: Robor
Originally posted by: cubby1223
Doesn't matter what the consumers or major studios do, it's the porn industry that declares a winner.
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Do people really buy pr0n DVD movies? 😉
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Yeah, but this is high def porn. You can see every scar, zit, boil, leision, ingrown hair, razor burn and caked up pore in ultra realistic detail. Who doesn't want that?
 
linky

I don't know how reliable this source is but if China got into the BD player market, the $100-$150 dollar stand alone may not be as far away as some of you might think.
 
Originally posted by: jpeyton
LA Times reporting WB Announcement Triggered Paramount Opt-Out Clause

Warner Bros.' decision last week to start making movies exclusively for Blu-ray players, rather than HD DVD, triggered an "out" clause in Paramount Pictures' contract with the HD DVD camp. An industry source said there was a significant possibility that Paramount would exercise that clause. It plans to decide within a month.
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well, all the execs seem to have very loose lips, so at this point, I'd be very surprised if all of this weren't true. But yea, due to contracts Universal and Paramount gotta do all they can do to continue to deny these rumors so they don't void there contracts at this moment.
 
Warner was obviously bought off by Sony like the cheap little corporate hoes they are. First they promised to support both formats, then they blatantly back stabbed loyal HD consumers of their movies after secret and shady behind the scenes negotiations with Sony to drop HD.

I got news for Warner and Sony and the other corporate hoes out there who are trying to manipulate the market to their favor at consumers expense. I have an TOSHIBA HD player, NOT a Blu-ray player. It will upconvert my SD DVDs nicely, without Sony's greedy meddling interference what so ever. I am NOT going to buy or use a Blu-ray player, unless one magically drops out of the sky into my home theater complete with the Blu-ray versions of the 700 or so SD movies I already own for free.

If you as a deluded consumer you think you are the winner for buying a Sony product, think again. You are buying an attempt at market dominance which will drive prices higher on players and Blu-ray media, not lower. Warner knows this, and rather than sell a product for less, they would much rather have consumers buy essentially the same thing for more money.

If Sony is allowed to win the format war, you will not see prices drop. That is not in Sony's best interest, or the interest of the companies lining up to milk you, like Disney. So bend over and get ready for the big shaft you Sony fan boys have been waiting for. Because we are all going to pay dearly for it a year or 2 from now.

I will not buy another Sony product, and have stood by this for many years now, for various reasons. This is just another nail in Sony's coffin, from my perspective. And it also reaffirms my belief that there really is a sucker born every minute, and he most likely has a PS3 he bought primarily as a Blu-ray player, and never plays a game on. :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown:
 
Originally posted by: petez
Should Blockbusters be counted as an important factor for the BDA camp? If a J6P are walking into renting a movie at Blockbusters, what is the first thing he notices about the HI-Def shelf that Bluray has been taking over? The most effective way of getting a high rank sale figure is by having ppl passes on the words to each other. It is all about the human nature, especially where money can buy anything. In this case, Sony has learnt a good lesson about marketing; and, they did it pretty well to keep consumers aware of Bluray.
Click to expand...

Blockbuster was no doubt swayed into Blu-Ray because of the PS3 and the simple fact so many gamers flock to their stores for just games. The Blu-Ray rentals at my BB store are dismal, according to the manager there. But that might not hold true at all BB stores.
 
Originally posted by: SlickSnake
Warner was obviously bought off by Sony like the cheap little corporate hoes they are. First they promised to support both formats, then they blatantly back stabbed loyal HD consumers of their movies after secret and shady behind the scenes negotiations with Sony to drop HD.

I got news for Warner and Sony and the other corporate hoes out there who are trying to manipulate the market to their favor at consumers expense. I have an TOSHIBA HD player, NOT a Blu-ray player. It will upconvert my SD DVDs nicely, without Sony's greedy meddling interference what so ever. I am NOT going to buy or use a Blu-ray player, unless one magically drops out of the sky into my home theater complete with the Blu-ray versions of the 700 or so SD movies I already own for free.

If you as a deluded consumer you think you are the winner for buying a Sony product, think again. You are buying an attempt at market dominance which will drive prices higher on players and Blu-ray media, not lower. Warner knows this, and rather than sell a product for less, they would much rather have consumers buy essentially the same thing for more money.

If Sony is allowed to win the format war, you will not see prices drop. That is not in Sony's best interest, or the interest of the companies lining up to milk you, like Disney. So bend over and get ready for the big shaft you Sony fan boys have been waiting for. Because we are all going to pay dearly for it a year or 2 from now.

I will not buy another Sony product, and have stood by this for many years now, for various reasons. This is just another nail in Sony's coffin, from my perspective. And it also reaffirms my belief that there really is a sucker born every minute, and he most likely has a PS3 he bought primarily as a Blu-ray player, and never plays a game on. :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown:
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Wow. This post took you how many beers? My money's on 6. :beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer:
 
Originally posted by: cubby1223
Doesn't matter what the consumers or major studios do, it's the porn industry that declares a winner.
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You are more accurate than you might think there. They will use the cheapest high definition format with the lowest royalties (costs) to reach the consumers. And there is also the matter of the bursting Asian movie markets and the simple fact they can mass market an HD movie for a lot less than a Blu-Ray one. Just a quick look on Ebay at the cheap SD DVD box sets available made in Asian countries for way less than the US marketed versions will confirm this trend. So HD for all these cheaper Asian box sets is a no brainer down the road. They certainly won't pay Sony to sell the same thing as Blu-ray for more money.

So don't throw those old HD players away just yet, because as much as the greedy corporate slugs might want to milk the consumers out of every over priced market manipulated dollar, the bottom dollar in the consumers pockets in the HD war has not completely spoken yet. There is still a lot more market manipulation to come, in this high definition war. And any media conglomerate jumping ship now and alienating consumers, like Warner, might be more than a little embarrassed to jump back again in the near future when their sales slump as a result of being greedy and strangling the consumers by the throat along with Sony.

The economy is in the toilet, worldwide, and the studios are looking for any new source of income to save their parasitic butts. If Sony wants to give them ??? millions to jump ship and make money for nothing, they are all over that all you can eat buffet. But the same clauses that might get studios out of HD deals will also get them out of Blu-Ray ones when their sales numbers in high def go down even further due to Sony's legendary poor support of their numerous failed media formats.

All those kiddies with PS3's their parents bought them does not mean those kids have the cash to plunk down mega bucks for Blu-Ray movies in bulk. My feeling is this is a temporary market swing that will only benefit the studios in the short term quarter, unless Sony's payola spreads out over a year or more. Once the greedy studios milk this new Sony cash cow dry, they will move back to cheaper and greener pastures. We can only hope Sony buries themselves financially sooner rather than later to finally end their multiple futile attempts at consumer market manipulation once and for all.
 
Originally posted by: cubby1223
Originally posted by: SlickSnake
Warner was obviously bought off by Sony like the cheap little corporate hoes they are. First they promised to support both formats, then they blatantly back stabbed loyal HD consumers of their movies after secret and shady behind the scenes negotiations with Sony to drop HD.

I got news for Warner and Sony and the other corporate hoes out there who are trying to manipulate the market to their favor at consumers expense. I have an TOSHIBA HD player, NOT a Blu-ray player. It will upconvert my SD DVDs nicely, without Sony's greedy meddling interference what so ever. I am NOT going to buy or use a Blu-ray player, unless one magically drops out of the sky into my home theater complete with the Blu-ray versions of the 700 or so SD movies I already own for free.

If you as a deluded consumer you think you are the winner for buying a Sony product, think again. You are buying an attempt at market dominance which will drive prices higher on players and Blu-ray media, not lower. Warner knows this, and rather than sell a product for less, they would much rather have consumers buy essentially the same thing for more money.

If Sony is allowed to win the format war, you will not see prices drop. That is not in Sony's best interest, or the interest of the companies lining up to milk you, like Disney. So bend over and get ready for the big shaft you Sony fan boys have been waiting for. Because we are all going to pay dearly for it a year or 2 from now.

I will not buy another Sony product, and have stood by this for many years now, for various reasons. This is just another nail in Sony's coffin, from my perspective. And it also reaffirms my belief that there really is a sucker born every minute, and he most likely has a PS3 he bought primarily as a Blu-ray player, and never plays a game on. :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown:
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Wow. This post took you how many beers? My money's on 6. :beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer:
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Guess again. No beers here. But thanks for buying a PS3 for Blu-Ray! Cheers! 😀:beer:
 
Originally posted by: MrPickins
SlickSnake: Who peed in your cheerios?
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Gross! Who eats cheerios? At least the pee might add a bit of salty flavor. Get your parents to buy you froot loops instead. :roll:
 
Originally posted by: SlickSnake
Originally posted by: petez
Should Blockbusters be counted as an important factor for the BDA camp? If a J6P are walking into renting a movie at Blockbusters, what is the first thing he notices about the HI-Def shelf that Bluray has been taking over? The most effective way of getting a high rank sale figure is by having ppl passes on the words to each other. It is all about the human nature, especially where money can buy anything. In this case, Sony has learnt a good lesson about marketing; and, they did it pretty well to keep consumers aware of Bluray.
Click to expand...

Blockbuster was no doubt swayed into Blu-Ray because of the PS3 and the simple fact so many gamers flock to their stores for just games. The Blu-Ray rentals at my BB store are dismal, according to the manager there. But that might not hold true at all BB stores.
Click to expand...

Blockbuster choose blu ray after they ran a 6 month pilot program at 250 of their stores. When the 6 months was up, they saw that 70% of the high def renters were blu ray, so they chose to expand their high def offerings with blu ray only, but they kept the HD DVD titles in those 250 stores.
 
Originally posted by: SlickSnake
Warner was obviously bought off by Sony like the cheap little corporate hoes they are. First they promised to support both formats, then they blatantly back stabbed loyal HD consumers of their movies after secret and shady behind the scenes negotiations with Sony to drop HD.
Click to expand...
If we search back to your posts from August 2007, will we see the same hatred for Paramount? They got bought out too. Even worse, instead of giving people a 5 month window to continue purchasing your titles on either format like WB is giving HD-DVD owners, Paramount dropped Blu-Ray immediately and binned their ready-for-sale Blu-Ray copies of Blades Of Glory.

I got news for Warner and Sony and the other corporate hoes out there who are trying to manipulate the market to their favor at consumers expense. I have an TOSHIBA HD player, NOT a Blu-ray player. It will upconvert my SD DVDs nicely, without Sony's greedy meddling interference what so ever. I am NOT going to buy or use a Blu-ray player, unless one magically drops out of the sky into my home theater complete with the Blu-ray versions of the 700 or so SD movies I already own for free.
Click to expand...
I got news for early adopters like yourself: your money doesn't matter. WB made their decision to capture the 98% of the market that has not purchased either HDM format; people who were waiting on the sidelines for the format war to end.

If you as a deluded consumer you think you are the winner for buying a Sony product, think again. You are buying an attempt at market dominance which will drive prices higher on players and Blu-ray media, not lower. Warner knows this, and rather than sell a product for less, they would much rather have consumers buy essentially the same thing for more money.
Click to expand...
Average purchase prices for Blu-Ray media has been cheaper all year long vs. HD-DVD media. More sales, more promotions, and lower retail prices.

If Sony is allowed to win the format war, you will not see prices drop. That is not in Sony's best interest, or the interest of the companies lining up to milk you, like Disney. So bend over and get ready for the big shaft you Sony fan boys have been waiting for. Because we are all going to pay dearly for it a year or 2 from now.
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DVD won the format war, and the dozens of CE companies that made DVD players competed with each other. Just like the dozens of CE companies making Blu-Ray players will compete with each other. That's more than Toshiba can say about HD-DVD; the only currently available HD-DVD players are either Toshiba units or rebadged Toshiba units. No potential for future competition there.

I will not buy another Sony product, and have stood by this for many years now, for various reasons. This is just another nail in Sony's coffin, from my perspective. And it also reaffirms my belief that there really is a sucker born every minute, and he most likely has a PS3 he bought primarily as a Blu-ray player, and never plays a game on. :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown:
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The PS3 is better built, loads movies faster, is more powerful, has more upgradability, than any other Blu-Ray or HD-DVD player on the market. It's a great upscaling player too. For $399, it's a bargain. Early adopters of DVD paid $600 for their first DVD player; they didn't even get progressive scan, DTS support, upscaling, etc., for their money.

Face it, you paid the early adopters game of roulette and lost. The rest of the market is ready to move forward, even if you're not.
 
SlickSnake's post sounds like a bitter Toshiba executive right about now. I don't know what Sony ever did to make you hate them so much but the bottom line is that both sides of this format war have been playing dirty since day one so singling out Sony as the big evil corporation here just sounds like sour grapes on your part. Would you have made the same posts against Toshiba had WB went with HD-DVD? The good news for you is that unlike HD-DVD players and Toshiba, you don't have to buy a Sony to get a BD player, there are plenty of options out there for the Sony haters.

As for the porn industry, I'd imagine the vast majority of people simply download their porn as opposed to buying DVDs/VHS back in the day. Also, iirc, Japan, one of the biggest porn indusitries in Asia, is Blu-Ray dominated. If and when the Japanese porn companies were to release titles, I'd imagine they'd do it in BD since their largest customer base will be in Japan and they'll probably only have a BD player.
 
Originally posted by: jpeyton

The PS3 is better built, loads movies faster, is more powerful, has more upgradability, than any other Blu-Ray or HD-DVD player on the market. It's a great upscaling player too. For $399, it's a bargain.
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HD-DVD players don't NEED to be upgradable. 😛

Not sure about the other "features" of the PS3. (How "powerful" does a movie player need to be, past playing movies?)
 
LOL. If this stuff is representative of the crying at AVSForum, I'm glad I avoid that part of it.
 
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