HD-DVD versus Blu-Ray: The Format War (old)

[galperi1]

Originally posted by: Shawn
It ain't over till it's over.

according to the wall street journal both Universal Studios and Paramount (Dreamworks included) will continue support for the HD DVD format, exclusively.

HD DVD is not dead. they are clearly in second place, but as long as these two studios continue support HD DVD cannot die.

If Universal, Paramount, Dreamworks continue with HD DVD only then there will not be a winner to this format war. Its very likely both will continue on until the end of HDM. with Blu-ray #1 in sales and HD DVD accounting for probably 30% of the growing market. Combo players will become more popular and both install bases will continue to grow. many people will go Purple(dual format).

There is no reason to stop purchasing your HD DVDs that you want. the BDA has spent alot of money to stay 1st place in the market, but they have not ended the war.

Text

I personally no longer believe that HD DVD can win this format war. However if Paramount and Universal hold out for another year or so I don't think there will ever be a winner. Regardless of what the future holds, if Toshiba is smart, they will start producing affordable dual format players. That way everyone who has already bought into HD DVD can make the transition to Blu-ray without worrying about their HD DVDs being obsolete.

I really hope that Paramount and Universal hold out for as long as possible in order to force more dual format players at hopefully affordable prices. Toshiba could offer other (Chinese) companies the blueprints to their dual format players, like they have done with the A3, and could also remove their licensing fees to make dual format players more affordable. I believe this is the only way for mass adoption to occur and to keep from alienating the existing HD DVD user base. It's a win/win IMO.

Actually, it is really a self-fulfilling prophecy at this point. Buyers at all the major retailers will be making stock decisions for Q2 and forward. Right now Blu-Ray has at least 70-80% of the content. Say goodbye to the 2:1 shelf space and make room for 4:1 and 5:1 ratios. You think Universal and Paramount will be happy with Best Buy et al. ordering half of what they used to for their stores? Consumer also sees a MUCH bigger selection of Blu-Ray.... perception is everything at this point.

Now that HD-DVD is down, the retailers will make the final push to put them out of their misery. I think dual format players are on their way out with the exception of possibly Toshiba making one.

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: Shawn
It ain't over till it's over.

according to the wall street journal both Universal Studios and Paramount (Dreamworks included) will continue support for the HD DVD format, exclusively.

HD DVD is not dead. they are clearly in second place, but as long as these two studios continue support HD DVD cannot die.

If Universal, Paramount, Dreamworks continue with HD DVD only then there will not be a winner to this format war. Its very likely both will continue on until the end of HDM. with Blu-ray #1 in sales and HD DVD accounting for probably 30% of the growing market. Combo players will become more popular and both install bases will continue to grow. many people will go Purple(dual format).

There is no reason to stop purchasing your HD DVDs that you want. the BDA has spent alot of money to stay 1st place in the market, but they have not ended the war.

Text

I personally no longer believe that HD DVD can win this format war. However if Paramount and Universal hold out for another year or so I don't think there will ever be a winner. Regardless of what the future holds, if Toshiba is smart, they will start producing affordable dual format players. That way everyone who has already bought into HD DVD can make the transition to Blu-ray without worrying about their HD DVDs being obsolete.

I really hope that Paramount and Universal hold out for as long as possible in order to force more dual format players at hopefully affordable prices. Toshiba could offer other (Chinese) companies the blueprints to their dual format players, like they have done with the A3, and could also remove their licensing fees to make dual format players more affordable. I believe this is the only way for mass adoption to occur and to keep from alienating the existing HD DVD user base. It's a win/win IMO.

interesting, it's the exact opposite of what the FT is reporting. makes you wonder though, when you consider that Rupert Murdoch now controls the Journal...

 

[TheVrolok]

Originally posted by: zinfamous

Originally posted by: Shawn
It ain't over till it's over.

according to the wall street journal both Universal Studios and Paramount (Dreamworks included) will continue support for the HD DVD format, exclusively.

HD DVD is not dead. they are clearly in second place, but as long as these two studios continue support HD DVD cannot die.

If Universal, Paramount, Dreamworks continue with HD DVD only then there will not be a winner to this format war. Its very likely both will continue on until the end of HDM. with Blu-ray #1 in sales and HD DVD accounting for probably 30% of the growing market. Combo players will become more popular and both install bases will continue to grow. many people will go Purple(dual format).

There is no reason to stop purchasing your HD DVDs that you want. the BDA has spent alot of money to stay 1st place in the market, but they have not ended the war.

Text

I personally no longer believe that HD DVD can win this format war. However if Paramount and Universal hold out for another year or so I don't think there will ever be a winner. Regardless of what the future holds, if Toshiba is smart, they will start producing affordable dual format players. That way everyone who has already bought into HD DVD can make the transition to Blu-ray without worrying about their HD DVDs being obsolete.

I really hope that Paramount and Universal hold out for as long as possible in order to force more dual format players at hopefully affordable prices. Toshiba could offer other (Chinese) companies the blueprints to their dual format players, like they have done with the A3, and could also remove their licensing fees to make dual format players more affordable. I believe this is the only way for mass adoption to occur and to keep from alienating the existing HD DVD user base. It's a win/win IMO.

interesting, it's the exact opposite of what the FT is reporting. makes you wonder though, when you consider that Rupert Murdoch now controls the Journal...

Truth.

 

[lopri]

Originally posted by: jiffylube1024

Originally posted by: lopri
To me this whole format war thing shows how big of a power Microsoft really is. Although lost (at least it looks that way for now), MS could single-handedly stir up not only the tech industry but also the Hollywood giants. It's kinda scary if I think about it. Sony kinda defended themselves (they had no choice but to, otherwise they'd lose both console and optical disc markets) this go-round, but I'm sure the damage was huge. It's silly to even think that there was no back-hand negotiation between Warner and Toshiba (which in fact is a rep from MS), and Warner and Sony. Warner found themselves in a unique position to enjoy offers from both ends, and (even if they already had decided on a certain format) it'd be moronic if they didn't leverage the situation for their gain. In the end, Warner was extremely smart in that they've got the legitimate reason for the switch as well as handsome deal from BDA. (Unlike Paramount which got a lot less money as well as bad PR)

You've basically summed up the BluRay exclusive supporter's argument in a nutshell: BluRay good, HD bad; Paramount are idiots for settling, Warner are geniuses for leveraging their position for more cash; Microsoft is the evil empire, Sony is a benevolent computer power. It's, to me, a very hypocritical and illogical position.

?

I think you're reading way too much into what i said. Blu-Ray good and HD bad? Even the most benign person (over 8) wouldn't make an argument as such. And as for the comparison on Paramount vs Warner, I don't think it's something that either party would disagree? I've seen some Blu-Ray supporters saying that Warner's decision was purely ethical and consumer-oriented, which I find laughable. We're talking about business here. If I were a CEO at Warner, I would do anything to maximize the company's short/long-term profit. Where does a Blu-Ray fanboyism get involved in stating the obvious?

I have not said Microsoft is evil. But I have said (not here, but somewhere else) that MS was the main power that triggered the format war (for the most part) and I would be weary of giving too much control to one company for our digital life in future.

Sony is benevolent computer power? I highly doubt even the most religious Blu-Ray supporter would say such thing. Sony is just more of the same (corporates, that is) to me and I have absolutely no emotional involvement in this format war. I just make observations and judgments based on reason and facts.

 

[Eomer of Aldburg]

Very well said lopri, and I love your post count "Posts: 3333" Anyways my 4 Harry Potter HD-DVD's should be arriving soon. At least the buy one get one free deal on amazon wasn't to bad

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

I always knew Blu-ray would win out because of the PS3.

 

[jpeyton]

If you check out AVS, one troubling thing about HD-DVD early adopters:

Before the WB announcement, they would attack Blu-Ray in any way possible.

After the WB announcement, they are attacking HDM in any way possible.

Four days ago, HD-DVD owners were only about the best in picture and sound.

Now they're supporting a scorched-Earth policy for HDM; if our format doesn't succeed, none can exist.

They're all regressing to upconverted DVD and low-bitrate HD OTA/Cable/Sat. Some even prefer waiting 4 hours for their VUDU set-top box to buffer HD VOD. Everything is the wave of the future, even things that don't exist.

I don't think I've seen a bigger group of whiners in my life.

 

[Ricochet]

I don't understand some of you people who bought HD DVD players (just like me) and after hearing this latest bits of news are so quick to abandon it. Reference this thread.

Since I already own an Xbox360 it was a no brainer decision to get the HD addon + Heroes + 300 + 2 free store selection + 5 mail-in movies for a very reasonable price. I was and still am happy with that purchase. I got 10 titles (including King Kong) and a very good upscaler out of the deal. Since then I've added many more titles. Ain't no way I'm selling those off and going Blu-Ray exclusive. In fact, now is probably the best time to look for HD DVD deals from those looking to "cut their losses".

I'm a big movie fanatic and am looking to replace most of my DVDs with their HD counterparts since I do have a HDTV. For me it doesn't matter whether they come with a red or blue case. What matters most for me is price. In fact I got in on a lot of those Blu-Ray BOGO deals even though I don't even own a Blu-Ray player yet. Yes, I know I'm crazy but when you get HD movies down to $10 and sometimes $8 a piece it's hard to ignore.

The main problem I have with Blu-Ray is that the players have not come down in the desirable price range. I would not consider purchasing a PS3 unless a must have game title shows up (ie FFXIII). Even then I would hate using a console to play movies. I made that mistake with the original Xbox. I played DVDs more than games and the drive on the Xbox died prematurely. The wear and tear on the drive seems to be much more when you mix media. At least for the 360 it's a separate drive.

Anyway, I treat this Warner news as bad news for consumers. For us dual format folks waiting for the Blu-Ray players to come down in price, it looks like we may have to wait awhile longer. $200 is my strike point.

As it is, my HD DVD is not dead, it still play movies. I will keep a sharper eye for firesale. Heck, my PSP is not dead. It plays my library of UMDs (bought from $5 a piece firesale). Even my dreamcast gets its fair use.

 

[cubby1223]

Originally posted by: Shawn
It ain't over till it's over.

It's over.

Toshiba, Universal, Paramount can trudge forward, but retailers will begin dropping shelf space for HD DVD. They have even less control in their fate than they had previously.

Target is dropping HD DVD, I would expect most small retailers to drop HD DVD soon too, then followed by the big guys, Best Buy, Wal*Mart, Circuit City. The format will not survive if it's internet-order only, I can guarantee that.

 

[Eomer of Aldburg]

Bring on cheap Dual format drives or cheap Blue-ray disc players. I will keep my HD-DVD drive and my HD-DVD movies

 

[Ricochet]

Originally posted by: OneOfTheseDays
I always knew Blu-ray would win out because of the PS3.

Yeah, people were arguing blue in the face about attachment rates and what-not. In the end the PS3 is the number one selling HD player by a large margin. But let us not forget that Sony has a huge backing by movie studios from the get-go. It didn't matter whether HD DVD had cheaper players, it didn't have enough blockbuster hits to compete with the likes of Blu-Ray titles.

 

[destrekor]

Originally posted by: cubby1223

Originally posted by: Shawn
It ain't over till it's over.

It's over.

Toshiba, Universal, Paramount can trudge forward, but retailers will begin dropping shelf space for HD DVD. They have even less control in their fate than they had previously.

Target is dropping HD DVD, I would expect most small retailers to drop HD DVD soon too, then followed by the big guys, Best Buy, Wal*Mart, Circuit City. The format will not survive if it's internet-order only, I can guarantee that.

exactly, and the first chains are dropping it because they, like the majority of the press, are determining in unison, that BD has emerged a victor. I think the big names are beginning to realize that it won't be lost profits if they drop HD DVD, and that they hold the power to end this battle royal and declare a victor. I think that due to loss retail sales, Universal and Paramount/Dreamworks are going to be forced to begin productions on BD movies, either alongside HD DVD or exclusive, thereby killing HD DVD unless Weinstein and smaller studios around the world stick to it, and make it some artsy format. :laugh: but seriously... the retail market may just have its own choice and declare BD the champ next month for all we know. Retail is crazy, because once Target does it... others might just start getting the idea, and might jump on the bandwagon shortly thereafter.

 

[skrill]

Originally posted by: ricochet

Originally posted by: OneOfTheseDays
I always knew Blu-ray would win out because of the PS3.

Yeah, people were arguing blue in the face about attachment rates and what-not. In the end the PS3 is the number one selling HD player by a large margin. But let us not forget that Sony has a huge backing by movie studios from the get-go. It didn't matter whether HD DVD had cheaper players, it didn't have enough blockbuster hits to compete with the likes of Blu-Ray titles.

Actually -- for my tastes (action/big budget/etc) HD-DVD had a better catalog (Transformers, Bourne, Matrix, etc.).

But I moving format neutral now. Still keeping my A2 as I still think it is a great player and it only cost me $89. I have about 25 movies of which I actually purchased only about 10. I plant to pick up an Xbox add-on when people start dumping them so I can have HD-DVD down in my game room and in my main viewing room.

Ill probably get a PS3 as I think it is the best BD player. But I don't plan to buy any games for it as I think the 360 is a better game console.

 

[dainthomas]

Originally posted by: skrill

Originally posted by: ricochet

Originally posted by: OneOfTheseDays
I always knew Blu-ray would win out because of the PS3.

Yeah, people were arguing blue in the face about attachment rates and what-not. In the end the PS3 is the number one selling HD player by a large margin. But let us not forget that Sony has a huge backing by movie studios from the get-go. It didn't matter whether HD DVD had cheaper players, it didn't have enough blockbuster hits to compete with the likes of Blu-Ray titles.

Actually -- for my tastes (action/big budget/etc) HD-DVD had a better catalog (Transformers, Bourne, Matrix, etc.).

But I moving format neutral now. Still keeping my A2 as I still think it is a great player and it only cost me $89. I have about 25 movies of which I actually purchased only about 10. I plant to pick up an Xbox add-on when people start dumping them so I can have HD-DVD down in my game room and in my main viewing room.

Ill probably get a PS3 as I think it is the best BD player. But I don't plan to buy any games for it as I think the 360 is a better game console.

My A2 ($120 from CC) is awesome. I have a friend who paid $300 or so for the A20 and has had nothing but problems. This thing plays everything flawlessly, and both HD and SD disks look great. I'll ditch if/when dual format players go sub 200.

 

[randay]

this was an easily predicted outcome since the middle of last year, why is it so hard to accept?

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
If you check out AVS, one troubling thing about HD-DVD early adopters:

Before the WB announcement, they would attack Blu-Ray in any way possible.

After the WB announcement, they are attacking HDM in any way possible.

Four days ago, HD-DVD owners were only about the best in picture and sound.

Now they're supporting a scorched-Earth policy for HDM; if our format doesn't succeed, none can exist.

They're all regressing to upconverted DVD and low-bitrate HD OTA/Cable/Sat. Some even prefer waiting 4 hours for their VUDU set-top box to buffer HD VOD. Everything is the wave of the future, even things that don't exist.

I don't think I've seen a bigger group of whiners in my life.

You need to find something better to do with your time, honestly. It is just a format, gloating over your favorite format winning is sad.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: cubby1223

Originally posted by: Shawn
It ain't over till it's over.

It's over.

Toshiba, Universal, Paramount can trudge forward, but retailers will begin dropping shelf space for HD DVD. They have even less control in their fate than they had previously.

Target is dropping HD DVD, I would expect most small retailers to drop HD DVD soon too, then followed by the big guys, Best Buy, Wal*Mart, Circuit City. The format will not survive if it's internet-order only, I can guarantee that.

Well walk into a BB and see how much shelf space is dedicated to each format. Then hit Target

Target's electronic dept is like the goodwill section. 1 BluRay player and about 10 movies. I'd say Walmart has a better HD presence. Target is domestic wears and clothing, not an eletronics outlet. First clue would be a no TVs over 42 inches.

 

[Ricochet]

Originally posted by: skrill

Originally posted by: ricochet

Originally posted by: OneOfTheseDays
I always knew Blu-ray would win out because of the PS3.

Yeah, people were arguing blue in the face about attachment rates and what-not. In the end the PS3 is the number one selling HD player by a large margin. But let us not forget that Sony has a huge backing by movie studios from the get-go. It didn't matter whether HD DVD had cheaper players, it didn't have enough blockbuster hits to compete with the likes of Blu-Ray titles.

Actually -- for my tastes (action/big budget/etc) HD-DVD had a better catalog (Transformers, Bourne, Matrix, etc.).

My taste as well. I prefer the titles you mentioned over the Spiderman trilogy (3rd was a real stinker), Pirates trilogy, Casino Royale, Cars, Ratatouille, etc. HD DVD has some great ones, but Blu-Ray seems to have more titles people buy. Moving away from the current big budget flicks, Blu-Ray has Terminator 1&2, Underworld, 5th Element, The Prestige, Big Fish, Memento, Bram Stoker's Dracula, etc.

But I moving format neutral now. Still keeping my A2 as I still think it is a great player and it only cost me $89. I have about 25 movies of which I actually purchased only about 10. I plant to pick up an Xbox add-on when people start dumping them so I can have HD-DVD down in my game room and in my main viewing room.

Since I already have the 360 addon, I may just get the standalone for real cheap. But that may come after getting a Blu-Ray player.

Ill probably get a PS3 as I think it is the best BD player. But I don't plan to buy any games for it as I think the 360 is a better game console.

The PS3 solely as a Blu-Ray player is still too expensive for me. I'd wish they'd hurry up with the dual format players.

 

[petez]

Should Blockbusters be counted as an important factor for the BDA camp? If a J6P are walking into renting a movie at Blockbusters, what is the first thing he notices about the HI-Def shelf that Bluray has been taking over? The most effective way of getting a high rank sale figure is by having ppl passes on the words to each other. It is all about the human nature, especially where money can buy anything. In this case, Sony has learnt a good lesson about marketing; and, they did it pretty well to keep consumers aware of Bluray.

 

[TheVrolok]

Originally posted by: ricochet

Originally posted by: skrill

Originally posted by: ricochet

Originally posted by: OneOfTheseDays
I always knew Blu-ray would win out because of the PS3.

Yeah, people were arguing blue in the face about attachment rates and what-not. In the end the PS3 is the number one selling HD player by a large margin. But let us not forget that Sony has a huge backing by movie studios from the get-go. It didn't matter whether HD DVD had cheaper players, it didn't have enough blockbuster hits to compete with the likes of Blu-Ray titles.

Actually -- for my tastes (action/big budget/etc) HD-DVD had a better catalog (Transformers, Bourne, Matrix, etc.).

My taste as well. I prefer the titles you mentioned over the Spiderman trilogy (3rd was a real stinker), Pirates trilogy, Casino Royale, Cars, Ratatouille, etc. HD DVD has some great ones, but Blu-Ray seems to have more titles people buy. Moving away from the current big budget flicks, Blu-Ray has Terminator 1&2, Underworld, 5th Element, The Prestige, Big Fish, Momento, Bram Stoker's Dracula, etc.

Same goes for me. I adopted HD-DVD because the player was cheap (200 for the A3 with 10 free movies) and because I vastly preferred the selection of HD-DVD movies to BRD. I didn't care much for the Spiderman movies, Pirates, the Pixar flicks, etc. So I was sorta stuck that way. I'm still in no way remorseful of my purchase though, I have a lot of HDM that will still be viable for years to come (dual format players) and now I can hopefully pick up a few HD-DVD titles on clearance. To those that say the HD-DVD early adopters are bitter, I'm in no way bitter, I was sorta forced into HD-DVD and I did indeed like it better than BRD early on, but I have no problems at all going to BD players now. As soon as they come down in price and more movies I want come out in BRD I'll be all over it.

 

[Fingolfin269]

Originally posted by: TheVrolok

Originally posted by: ricochet

Originally posted by: skrill

Originally posted by: ricochet

Originally posted by: OneOfTheseDays
I always knew Blu-ray would win out because of the PS3.

Yeah, people were arguing blue in the face about attachment rates and what-not. In the end the PS3 is the number one selling HD player by a large margin. But let us not forget that Sony has a huge backing by movie studios from the get-go. It didn't matter whether HD DVD had cheaper players, it didn't have enough blockbuster hits to compete with the likes of Blu-Ray titles.

Actually -- for my tastes (action/big budget/etc) HD-DVD had a better catalog (Transformers, Bourne, Matrix, etc.).

My taste as well. I prefer the titles you mentioned over the Spiderman trilogy (3rd was a real stinker), Pirates trilogy, Casino Royale, Cars, Ratatouille, etc. HD DVD has some great ones, but Blu-Ray seems to have more titles people buy. Moving away from the current big budget flicks, Blu-Ray has Terminator 1&2, Underworld, 5th Element, The Prestige, Big Fish, Momento, Bram Stoker's Dracula, etc.

Same goes for me. I adopted HD-DVD because the player was cheap (200 for the A3 with 10 free movies) and because I vastly preferred the selection of HD-DVD movies to BRD. I didn't care much for the Spiderman movies, Pirates, the Pixar flicks, etc. So I was sorta stuck that way. I'm still in no way remorseful of my purchase though, I have a lot of HDM that will still be viable for years to come (dual format players) and now I can hopefully pick up a few HD-DVD titles on clearance. To those that say the HD-DVD early adopters are bitter, I'm in no way bitter, I was sorta forced into HD-DVD and I did indeed like it better than BRD early on, but I have no problems at all going to BD players now. As soon as they come down in price and more movies I want come out in BRD I'll be all over it.

Exactly. I'll go BRD eventually but only once I am 100% sure it is sticking around. I'd hate to buy in then find out the masses prefer compressed on demand hd content or some other delivery medium other than a disc format.

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

Originally posted by: Schadenfroh

Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo
i wonder how the die hard HDDVD fans are taking this.
is there a thread on this in the av forums?

You are looking at it

or do you mean the AVSforums?

oh yeah, i meant avs. some of the guys there make eug look like a trained house pet

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
If you check out AVS, one troubling thing about HD-DVD early adopters:

Before the WB announcement, they would attack Blu-Ray in any way possible.

After the WB announcement, they are attacking HDM in any way possible.

Four days ago, HD-DVD owners were only about the best in picture and sound.

Now they're supporting a scorched-Earth policy for HDM; if our format doesn't succeed, none can exist.

They're all regressing to upconverted DVD and low-bitrate HD OTA/Cable/Sat. Some even prefer waiting 4 hours for their VUDU set-top box to buffer HD VOD. Everything is the wave of the future, even things that don't exist.

I don't think I've seen a bigger group of whiners in my life.

Amen. It's staggering the amount of childishness that this has brought out in people. Should we feel sympathy for them b/c many of them sunk thousands into one format? No--as early adopters, they're educated in the Industry's dynamics. They knew what they were getting into, but it's like Warner and Sony murdered their families...

 

[PurdueRy]

Originally posted by: zinfamous

Originally posted by: jpeyton
If you check out AVS, one troubling thing about HD-DVD early adopters:

Before the WB announcement, they would attack Blu-Ray in any way possible.

After the WB announcement, they are attacking HDM in any way possible.

Four days ago, HD-DVD owners were only about the best in picture and sound.

Now they're supporting a scorched-Earth policy for HDM; if our format doesn't succeed, none can exist.

They're all regressing to upconverted DVD and low-bitrate HD OTA/Cable/Sat. Some even prefer waiting 4 hours for their VUDU set-top box to buffer HD VOD. Everything is the wave of the future, even things that don't exist.

I don't think I've seen a bigger group of whiners in my life.

Amen. It's staggering the amount of childishness that this has brought out in people. Should we feel sympathy for them b/c many of them sunk thousands into one format? No--as early adopters, they're educated in the Industry's dynamics. They knew what they were getting into, but it's like Warner and Sony murdered their families...

Good thing us HD DVD owners are sane here.

 

[ranmaniac]

Originally posted by: zinfamous

Originally posted by: jpeyton
If you check out AVS, one troubling thing about HD-DVD early adopters:

Before the WB announcement, they would attack Blu-Ray in any way possible.

After the WB announcement, they are attacking HDM in any way possible.

Four days ago, HD-DVD owners were only about the best in picture and sound.

Now they're supporting a scorched-Earth policy for HDM; if our format doesn't succeed, none can exist.

They're all regressing to upconverted DVD and low-bitrate HD OTA/Cable/Sat. Some even prefer waiting 4 hours for their VUDU set-top box to buffer HD VOD. Everything is the wave of the future, even things that don't exist.

I don't think I've seen a bigger group of whiners in my life.

Amen. It's staggering the amount of childishness that this has brought out in people. Should we feel sympathy for them b/c many of them sunk thousands into one format? No--as early adopters, they're educated in the Industry's dynamics. They knew what they were getting into, but it's like Warner and Sony murdered their families...

I can't imagine many of the HD-DVD owners spending thousands except for the small percentage that spent $500 or more when it first came out.
Most people probably spent no more than $200 for their HD-DVD player, so they're not out a whole lot, and at most they have an upconverting player and movies from Universal and Paramount that are in HD that won't be out on Blu Ray for a year or two.

Once Blu Ray releases a $199 standalone 1.1 or 2.0 player, I think there will be a lot less whining.