HD-DVD versus Blu-Ray: The Format War (old)

[randym431]

I dont like reading these looooong massive threads, gives me a pain, but...
I've had two HD players. The A2, sold it and got the A3.
Then just by chance I seen a deal on the samsung blu-ray player and got one.
Especially, and I know this is lame, especially for the movie "30 days of night" (comes out in Feb on only blu-ray).

Now I see or feel I did the right thing, getting a blu-ray. So as of now I have both format players.

Everyone thought hd dvd had won the war when wally world sold players for $99.
So did I.

But now its clear that price drop was a last ditch effort to pump up HD dvd format.
Tricky little ploy they pulled.

I've yet to power up my new samsung blu-ray (just got it today),
but it looks like I'll have no regrets, after reading around here.

And I sold my old A2 hd player to a good friend. Now, how to break the bad news?

I've read other places that in Europe, blu-ray has massive support. True?

 

[TheVrolok]

Originally posted by: cliftonite
New Line and HBO will also support BLU Ray exclusively

New Line eh? That means LOTR on BRD eh? That seals BRD for me. I needed HD-DVD for Transformers and now I'll need BRD for LOTR. A shame that studios had to pick sides but it now looks like I'll be in the market for a standalone BRD player, if not the combo player when it comes down in price. I suppose the LG internal drive is still an outside option - I just don't think I really want to have my computer in use whenever I want to watch a movie.

 

[cubby1223]

Originally posted by: TheVrolok
Curious, though, what do most of you BD fans think about falling BD player prices? 200 bucks by next Christmas? Over a year from the time when HD players were under 100 bucks? Is BRD really that much better than HD-DVD that we should wait a bit over a year for the same affordability of players? I'm just really hoping BRD players drop to the 200 level soon; until then I guess I'm buying HD-DVDs on clearance!

You're asking the wrong question. There was a time when divx players were a dime a dozen while dvd players were still $500 each. I bought the $500 dvd player. It's just the way format wars work, the side that is trailing must artificially lower prices to remain competitive.

Format wars just do not result in all content providers supplying product in all formats, this was never going to be the outcome.


And no matter which side of the format war you leaned, you at least have to wonder what effect the $98 Wal*Mart sale had on HD DVD. Sure it sold a fair amount of players that weekend, but it also set the perceived value of HD DVD at $98. You still cannot find any HD DVD player new for close to that price.

 

[aphex]

Originally posted by: zinfamous

Originally posted by: aphex
looks like its time to put my hd-a2 up on ebay. With all the free movies the player basically ended up free so I'm not too heartbroken

why would you do that? did it stop working or something? HD DVDs will be available for a year+ at least. While it's likely that they'll stop manufacturing them, I doubt Toshiba will stop supporting them.

Imagine if they treated their early adopters like that. 5 years down the road, not offering to service failing, discontinued machines. would be pretty crummy on their part.

Just because some hd-dvd titles will still be available, dosen't mean its the titles I want. I'd rather sell now while the prices for players are around $100...

 

[Delta9]

CNBC is basicly saying the war is over.

For years, everyone's been waiting for an indication that either Sony's
and Toshiba's HD DVD format would emerge triumphant and the other would go the way of the BETA deck.

Today, finally, a crucial tipping point in this battle in which the $20 billion dollar home video market is at stake--Warner Bros has decided to distribute its high definition DVDs exclusively in the Blu-ray format, ditching its previous plan to distribute in both HD DVD and Blu-Ray.

This gives Sony's Blu-ray format the critical mass it needs to become the standard. Blu-Ray currently has exclusive distribution of content from Sony (obviously), plus Disney. Now HD DVD's only exclusive distribution parters are Universal Pictures and Paramount Pictures/Dreamworks (which was reported paid hundreds of millions of dollars to side with the format).

Hollywood must be breathing a huge sigh of relief (I think I can hear the Disney and Fox execs from my office). The $20 billion DVD market needed a successor to the aging format, and now the fact that the Blu-ray format is the clear leader it's not just a huge win for SONY, but also a crucial win for the movie studios.

All of Hollywood needs a format to win, and fast. The longer the battle dragged on the harder it would be to transition that $20 billion home video market, and the more likely that that revenue stream dry up.

On the flip side, this is bad news for Microsoft and Toshiba, the two main proponents of the HD-DVD format. They were counting on the lower price of HD DVD players to tip things in their favor, figuring if they could sell players for $150 it wouldn't matter that Sony's PlayStation 3s, which cost hundreds more, had a Blu-ray player embedded, and that their format would win.

At this point I think there's no way for HD DVD to make a comeback. The question now becomes, how quickly will Universal and Paramount/DreamWorks start distributing in Blu-Ray?

This holiday shopping season was considered crucial in determining which format was more popular, and though I'd suspected that Warner Bros. was going to make this announcement, as recently as yesterday the PR department was saying they had no announcements in the works, so this was a last minute decision.

I'm interviewing Kevin Tsujihara, the head of Warner Bros. home entertainment division. In the years that I've known and interviewed him, he's always been considered a leader in the space, pioneering Warner Bros. digital distribution. Executives across the industry look to him for guidance on the future, and I'm dying to hear what he has to say!
http://www.cnbc.com/id/22508081

 

[TheVrolok]

Originally posted by: cubby1223

Originally posted by: TheVrolok
Curious, though, what do most of you BD fans think about falling BD player prices? 200 bucks by next Christmas? Over a year from the time when HD players were under 100 bucks? Is BRD really that much better than HD-DVD that we should wait a bit over a year for the same affordability of players? I'm just really hoping BRD players drop to the 200 level soon; until then I guess I'm buying HD-DVDs on clearance!

You're asking the wrong question. There was a time when divx players were a dime a dozen while dvd players were still $500 each. I bought the $500 dvd player. It's just the way format wars work, the side that is trailing must artificially lower prices to remain competitive.

Format wars just do not result in all content providers supplying product in all formats, this was never going to be the outcome.


And no matter which side of the format war you leaned, you at least have to wonder what effect the $98 Wal*Mart sale had on HD DVD. Sure it sold a fair amount of players that weekend, but it also set the perceived value of HD DVD at $98. You still cannot find any HD DVD player new for close to that price.

The HD-A3 is still 200 bucks at BB. Still cheap compared to BD players. I'm going to end up shelling out the cash for a BD player, especially if LOTR comes out anytime soon. Not really a huge deal. I ended up selling my PS3 for what I paid for it so now I may have to go out and pick up another one. No rush tho, I might actually wait for LOTR. There are very few BRD exclusives I want atm. Eventually I'm sure I'll get a combo player and I can just have all my HD-DVD's and BRD's stack up together in harmony.

I don't really feel bad for any of us format warriors, but I do feel badly for the people who received the bargain priced HD players for Christmas and are now going to have a player for the losing format.

 

[destrekor]

Originally posted by: Delta9
CNBC is basicly saying the war is over.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/22508081

yea that's the thing that all reporters are doing: entering in hopeful bias, enough to help make the war fast too. All the reporters are they themselves probably fans of HD media, or may not be, but either way are excited for a possible end to the format war, even if it's not in their personal favorite format's choice.
I think that's good. With all the press coverage this switch is going to bring (way more than the coverage for Paramount, guaranteed. many more eyes are watching HD, especially right now), the media pulling those tricks will be convincing and the readers will see it as an end. HD DVD is effectively going to die rather soon I predict, because with this word out, all the coverage is going to include all the major studios that support each format; this is effectively going to doom HD DVD with an abysmally small cheerleader team consisting of Universal and Paramount/Dreamworks SKG... yea, it ain't gonna look pretty. Consumers may just pronounce the format dead themselves rather swiftly, and force the hand of defeat to make the move. Hopefully this is indeed the case, as an end is good for all.. well bad for the recent HD DVD buyers, but good for the general consumer. Now the confusion will be gone, and understand what the exact point is.. to replace DVD. Right now, a lot of consumers don't really understand that.. they see it as two formats competing, but many don't know what the formats offer.. and they keep buying the DVDs.. also because they don't have an HDTV because they don't see the need in it.

 

[JC86]

Paramount's rumored 18 month deal seems like a lifetime now. Holiday Season 2008 will probably be when BD really gains momentum and Paramount will still be stuck in HD DVD while all the other studios are releasing in BD.

I'm also curious if there's some opt-out clause that Paramount might have in their exclusivity deal with HD-DVD. Maybe if they forfeit part of the payoff they can shorten the length of their deal to salvage the holiday season in 2008?

 

[Delta9]

Hddvd cancels CES.

http://www.dailytech.com/HD+DV...tings/article10234.htm

 

[galperi1]

Well... we won't need this thread much longer. The dominoes have started to fall in place for Blu-Ray

I'd imagine that in the next 2 months we will see a SIGNIFICANT decline in shelf space for HD-DVD for all major retailers as they will go with the product with the most support.

I also think within the next 2-3 weeks we will hear that Universal will become neutral or blu-exclusive and then Paramount (if they have some sort of escape clause in their contract).

Interestingly enough... winning the format war will be a boon for the PS3 and Sony. Now that the format war is in the bag, they can concentrate of the gaming side of things instead of fighting a 2-front battle. I also truly wonder how long it is before Microsoft puts out a Blu-Ray add-on.

 

[Shawn]

When did Paramount first go exclusive?

 

[cubby1223]

Originally posted by: Shawn
When did Paramount first go exclusive?

Late August, just prior to Blades of Glory being released.

 

[CorCentral]

New Line and HBO not covered by Blu-ray announcement


Though it's widely expected that Warner Bros. subsidiaries New Line and HBO will follow Warner Home Entertainment to Blu-ray exclusivity, for the moment they remain format-agnostic.

That's according to Warner Home Entertainment President Kevin Tsujihara, who said that the studio's announcement that it would drop HD DVD support does not extend to titles released by New Line, HBO or the BBC (which Warner distributes here in the US).

 

[destrekor]

Originally posted by: Delta9
Hddvd cancels CES.

http://www.dailytech.com/HD+DV...tings/article10234.htm

wow. Now I'm beginning to wonder if Toshiba is going to discuss the potential to call it quits.. looks like that kind of thing will be discussed for certain during this pivotal talks they will be in with all the 'Forum members. Wonder if they'll see it as accepting the inevitable...

 

[TheVrolok]

Originally posted by: destrekor

Originally posted by: Delta9
Hddvd cancels CES.

http://www.dailytech.com/HD+DV...tings/article10234.htm

wow. Now I'm beginning to wonder if Toshiba is going to discuss the potential to call it quits.. looks like that kind of thing will be discussed for certain during this pivotal talks they will be in with all the 'Forum members. Wonder if they'll see it as accepting the inevitable...

At this point I kinda hope so. If this is indeed the death blow to HD-DVD (and it seems so) I kinda hope Toshiba accepts defeat shortly and goes about its business. I'd like to pick up some remaining HD-DVD titles on clearance and then see them vanish so I can move on to BRD.

 

[Eug]

Originally posted by: PurdueRy

Originally posted by: Eug
Come on Blu-ray... Give us that Profile 1.1 standalone player for $199.

Any predictions when? I'm guessing (hopefully) fall 2008.

What about profile 2.0?

I'd prefer one, but they're slow enough as it is to get 1.1 out.

Originally posted by: Delta9
Hddvd cancels CES.

http://www.dailytech.com/HD+DV...tings/article10234.htm

Yep, this has shocked Toshiba and the HD DVD group to the core.

 

[PurdueRy]

Originally posted by: Eug

Originally posted by: PurdueRy

Originally posted by: Eug
Come on Blu-ray... Give us that Profile 1.1 standalone player for $199.

Any predictions when? I'm guessing (hopefully) fall 2008.

What about profile 2.0?

I'd prefer one, but they're slow enough as it is to get 1.1 out.

Originally posted by: Delta9
Hddvd cancels CES.

http://www.dailytech.com/HD+DV...tings/article10234.htm

Yep, this has shocked Toshiba and the HD DVD group to the core.

This will slow my investment into HD. As many here, the only reason I was in the "war" was because I got the player for $89.99. It's gonna take a while for a BD player to get anywhere near that price. Well, at least this will save me money over the next year.

 

[galperi1]

Originally posted by: PurdueRy

Originally posted by: Eug

Originally posted by: PurdueRy

Originally posted by: Eug
Come on Blu-ray... Give us that Profile 1.1 standalone player for $199.

Any predictions when? I'm guessing (hopefully) fall 2008.

What about profile 2.0?

I'd prefer one, but they're slow enough as it is to get 1.1 out.

Originally posted by: Delta9
Hddvd cancels CES.

http://www.dailytech.com/HD+DV...tings/article10234.htm

Yep, this has shocked Toshiba and the HD DVD group to the core.

This will slow my investment into HD. As many here, the only reason I was in the "war" was because I got the player for $89.99. It's gonna take a while for a BD player to get anywhere near that price. Well, at least this will save me money over the next year.

I personally think the prices will now come down faster. You will have more CE's jumping in that have been staying on the side. Now that the battle against HD-DVD is pretty much over.... the BR CE's will now have to duke it out for our money to buy a Blu-Ray player.

 

[PurdueRy]

Originally posted by: galperi1

Originally posted by: PurdueRy

Originally posted by: Eug

Originally posted by: PurdueRy

Originally posted by: Eug
Come on Blu-ray... Give us that Profile 1.1 standalone player for $199.

Any predictions when? I'm guessing (hopefully) fall 2008.

What about profile 2.0?

I'd prefer one, but they're slow enough as it is to get 1.1 out.

Originally posted by: Delta9
Hddvd cancels CES.

http://www.dailytech.com/HD+DV...tings/article10234.htm

Yep, this has shocked Toshiba and the HD DVD group to the core.

This will slow my investment into HD. As many here, the only reason I was in the "war" was because I got the player for $89.99. It's gonna take a while for a BD player to get anywhere near that price. Well, at least this will save me money over the next year.

I personally think the prices will now come down faster. You will have more CE's jumping in that have been staying on the side. Now that the battle against HD-DVD is pretty much over.... the BR CE's will now have to duke it out for our money to buy a Blu-Ray player.

One can hope that is the case. However, I doubt we'll be seeing the deals we have been on BD's and HDDVD's recently with the BOGO's and such.

 

[TheVrolok]

Originally posted by: PurdueRy
One can hope that is the case. However, I doubt we'll be seeing the deals we have been on BD's and HDDVD's recently with the BOGO's and such.

I'll have to agree here. The whole point in competition is to drive price down (thus the cheap HD-DVD players and all the HD/BRD BOGO deals). If HD-DVD officially succeeds the best deals we can hope for are the HD-DVDs on clearance. The days of BOGO's weekly are over; that's the problem with what is essentially a monopoly at the end. Not trying to talk down against any kind of economics at this point, just saying I doubt we'll see prices fall now that there's LESS competition. Though, this might only stick to media. It is indeed possible that now more companies will attempt to produce BD players and therefore force prices to be competitive for the players at least. Time will tell.

 

[JC86]

Originally posted by: TheVrolok

Originally posted by: PurdueRy
One can hope that is the case. However, I doubt we'll be seeing the deals we have been on BD's and HDDVD's recently with the BOGO's and such.

I'll have to agree here. The whole point in competition is to drive price down (thus the cheap HD-DVD players and all the HD/BRD BOGO deals). If HD-DVD officially succeeds the best deals we can hope for are the HD-DVDs on clearance. The days of BOGO's weekly are over; that's the problem with what is essentially a monopoly at the end. Not trying to talk down against any kind of economics at this point, just saying I doubt we'll see prices fall now that there's LESS competition. Though, this might only stick to media. It is indeed possible that now more companies will attempt to produce BD players and therefore force prices to be competitive for the players at least. Time will tell.

While the BOGO deals were good while they lasted, it's not as if the lack of those deals have stopped any of us from getting movies we wanted when it was released on DVD. If and when BD fully replaces DVD, how will it be any different than from what DVD is now?

If anything, the mass production of BD discs will only drive down production costs and in turn, retail prices.

 

[Delta9]

haha.

Transformers Director-

Well another studio down. Maybe I was right? Blu ray is just better. HD will die a slow death. It's what I predicted a year ago. Now with Warner's down for the count with Blu Ray. That makes it easier for Wal-Mart to push Blu Ray. And whatever Wal-Mart pushes - wins. Hd better start giving out those $120 million dollars checks to stay alive. Maybe they can give me some so I can give it to my Make-A-Wish charity, just to shut me up. Have faith people Transformers will come out in Blu-ray one day!

http://www.shootfortheedit.com...ad.php?p=9716#post9716

 

[ProfJohn]

Ok? so this deal may mean the end of HD DVD, but is it really going to speed up the adoption of Hi-Def to the masses?

The cheapest Blu-Ray players I have seen in person was still $299 and at that price the typical consumer is going to sit on the side line and stick with their old DVD player.

It may be that Warner has ended the format war, but we may be no closer to mass migration to HD than we were yesterday.

 

[Auric]

Originally posted by: PurdueRy

Originally posted by: Delta9
haha.

Transformers Director-

Well another studio down. Maybe I was right? Blu ray is just better. HD will die a slow death. It's what I predicted a year ago. Now with Warner's down for the count with Blu Ray. That makes it easier for Wal-Mart to push Blu Ray. And whatever Wal-Mart pushes - wins. Hd better start giving out those $120 million dollars checks to stay alive. Maybe they can give me some so I can give it to my Make-A-Wish charity, just to shut me up. Have faith people Transformers will come out in Blu-ray one day!

http://www.shootfortheedit.com...ad.php?p=9716#post9716

Ok...seriously....Transformers was not THAT good of a movie. He makes it sound like it's going to be a classic remembered for years. It was a stupid popcorn flick.

He rants better than a 16 year old girl.

I recommend Transformers to insomniacs (as a sleep aid) and to mongs. Also, it already came out on BD... unofficially (yarr!).

 

[randym431]

Everything drops in price eventually.
I'm just looking forward to blu-ray's in the $5 wally world dvd bin.