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HD DVD cracked?

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Originally posted by: Eug
Originally posted by: KeyserSoze
Not cracked, but semi-compromised?
Click to expand...
Indeed.

Part of the AACS spec is to include revocable keys. So, the key for this is going to be changed. It was designed this way specifically to address issues like this.

I suspect PowerDVD will be updated soon.
Click to expand...

Umm, oldversion.com or the version of PowerDVD that hasn't been updated that is distributed on PSP will circumvent this.
 
Originally posted by: chambersc
Originally posted by: Eug
Originally posted by: KeyserSoze
Not cracked, but semi-compromised?
Click to expand...
Indeed.

Part of the AACS spec is to include revocable keys. So, the key for this is going to be changed. It was designed this way specifically to address issues like this.

I suspect PowerDVD will be updated soon.
Click to expand...

Umm, oldversion.com or the version of PowerDVD that hasn't been updated that is distributed on PSP will circumvent this.
Click to expand...

But it won't be able to play/hack new movies, since new discs come with key revocation lists that will disable the old version of PowerDVD (or whatever) when you try to play the movie. The protocol takes this into account; they expect players to be compromised every now and then.

When DVD first was hacked, downloading movies was not an option because it would take far too long. I don't download movies at all, but now I could these days if I wanted to.
Click to expand...

Generally you're downloading a highly compressed version of the movie (using MPEG4 or the like). HD content is already using pretty good compression, and it just at a much higher bitrate than SD content. Downloading multi-gigabyte files is going to be time-consuming for a long while for most people in the US.

so you have to send a request to the company that will probably force you to register so they can sell your info to spammers, then wait for the dvd to come in the mail. or waste your own media and burn it off of the internet.
DRM is such a pain in the ass.

and that's only after they actual create an update that is approved as fixing the expoit, and then recieve a new key.
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Nobody says you have to buy it. Vote with your wallet if you don't like what they're doing.
 
There's no question but that the formats will be cracked. If it can be played, it can be recorded.

If you're curious as to which format will win out in the end, just look to the porn industry. Whichever format that industry decides will be its standard will become THE standard for everyone. That's how VHS won out over Beta.
 
Originally posted by: Queasy
Originally posted by: Kaido
Even if they do hack HD-DVD and Bluray, aside from copying discs what good is it? I'm not going to download 25gb movie on a torrent or store my movie collection on my multimedia server like I do with my DVD movies, they're just too big! :Q
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You'd be surprised....
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Oh I'm sure. Right now I am pretty happy with my setup - SD TV and projector, modded Xbox, and a movie server when I rip all of my DVD movies to 1.4gb Xvid files. All I have to do is fire up my Xbox and choose which movie I want to watch, plus I can play regular DVD movies in the disc drive on the Xbox. My server has a single 500gb drive which lets me hold 300+ movies, which is really nice as I grow my collection. However if I use Bluray or HD-DVD rips, it would go from 332 to less than 20! 😛
 
Lots of cracking news lately. Appears one of the groups might have gotten the PS3 comprimised this week as well. At least, that's what they've started hinting at and suggesting it came about from the playstation store.
 
Originally posted by: Matthias99
Originally posted by: mordantmonkey
what if someone compromises a standalone hardware player?
if someone compromises a popular hardware player, then all of the legitmate consumers basically get stuck with a big fat paper weight that will no longer be able to play new movies?
Click to expand...
Potentially, yes.

If it's something that could be fixed by, say, a firmware update, the manufacturer would likely provide that (either online or via CD/DVD as mentioned above). If it's a deeper sort of problem... guess we'll find out when/if this occurs. Some people have questioned whether the MPAA would have the clout to be able to revoke the keys to a popular player once many of them have been sold to consumers if it can't be fixed easily.
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Would that make it easier for the cracker? I mean, they know the code is on the disc.
 
Originally posted by: Matthias99
Generally you're downloading a highly compressed version of the movie (using MPEG4 or the like). HD content is already using pretty good compression, and it just at a much higher bitrate than SD content. Downloading multi-gigabyte files is going to be time-consuming for a long while for most people in the US.
Click to expand...
All I'm saying is that it's now possible, where in the past it wasn't really viable. Remember, commercial downloads of 7 GB HD movies are already available. (eg. Xbox 360 download service.)

Originally posted by: her209
Would that make it easier for the cracker? I mean, they know the code is on the disc.
Click to expand...
Both the player and the disc have keys.
 
Originally posted by: her209
Originally posted by: Matthias99
Originally posted by: mordantmonkey
what if someone compromises a standalone hardware player?
if someone compromises a popular hardware player, then all of the legitmate consumers basically get stuck with a big fat paper weight that will no longer be able to play new movies?
Click to expand...
Potentially, yes.

If it's something that could be fixed by, say, a firmware update, the manufacturer would likely provide that (either online or via CD/DVD as mentioned above). If it's a deeper sort of problem... guess we'll find out when/if this occurs. Some people have questioned whether the MPAA would have the clout to be able to revoke the keys to a popular player once many of them have been sold to consumers if it can't be fixed easily.
Click to expand...
Would that make it easier for the cracker? I mean, they know the code is on the disc.
Click to expand...

It's on the disc, but it's encrypted. It's kind of complicated, but basically, it's very, very hard to get access to the content without its encryption key, and it's very, very hard to get its encryption key off the disc without having licensed other keys/software from the Blu-Ray/HD-DVD folks.

Not impossible, but very hard -- being able to do this would "break" the encryption used on the discs, allowing you to just read whatever data you want. Some methods for going about this have been suggested -- the algorithms they use have some vulnerabilities -- but it's not simple or easy.
 
Originally posted by: her209
Would that make it easier for the cracker? I mean, they know the code is on the disc.
Click to expand...

Potentially so. Afterall, if a manufacturer is sending out an update CD containing the new player code, then a hacker potentially doesn't have to look very hard to find the code.

This is a potential concern for manufacturers - because if they can't somehow deliver updated codes to players in a secure way, then if one of their players gets hacked - all their players can be converted into paperweights overnight.

This may be such a fear that manufacturers will only offer updates over an encrypted internet connection, or they will need to use some sort of secure encryption to protect the update CDs from being reverse engineered.

The worst case scenario is that a popular hardware player gets compromised, and the studios will not allow the manufacturer to distribute an update CD because the security on the update isn't good enough. Either the manufacturer has to recall every one of their players and physcially mod them, or there are going to be a lot of very disillusioned customers.

 
Originally posted by: Mark R
It doesn't look like this is much of a crack.

Indeed, HD-DVD/Blu-ray were designed with this type of exploit in mind.

This exploit appears to decrypt a movie, as long as you give it the decryption key. Hardly difficult, and the specifications on how to do this are freely available. The catch is obtaining the decryption key. In this case, it looks as if he has found an exploit in a HD-DVD software player - whereby he is able to attach a debugger and isolate the key from memory. No problem, but not really an automatable task.

The point is that HD-DVD and Blu-ray have 2 keys - the 'title' key (which is what actually decodes the movie) and the 'player' key, which is a key built into the player/software that is used to obtain 'title' key. However, the 'player' key can easily be revoked by the studios. So let's say that XYZ DVD player v1.0 has been exploited, once the studios find out they can simply cancel XYZ v1.0 compatability for future discs. So, although XYZ v1.0 will always be able to play King kong, King kong 2 will not be playable. If you have XYZ v1.0 you won't be able to watch KK2 until you upgrade. Of course, XYZ v2.0 won't get a key unless they can prove that the new version is resistant to the same type of hack.
Click to expand...

Someone will find a way around the key on the HD or BR. Some patch that will allow it to run on older players. Some way to trick the disc into thinking it's on a v2.0 machine.

Happened with the PSP...
 
I wish these hackers would find something productive to do. The reason these formats were delayed so long was because the MPAA was afraid that the encryption was not secure enough. These things have hardly even sold and they were already cracked. Guess what the industry reaction will be to this?

No more Blu Ray and no more HD DVD. I blame these hackers for holding back the future. Screw you hackers, go find productive to do.
 
Originally posted by: Staples
I wish these hackers would find something productive to do. The reason these formats were delayed so long was because the MPAA was afraid that the encryption was not secure enough. These things have hardly even sold and they were already cracked. Guess what the industry reaction will be to this?

No more Blu Ray and no more HD DVD. I blame these hackers for holding back the future. Screw you hackers, go find productive to do.
Click to expand...

Yes, clearly draconian copy protection measures are the way to stop piracy, and help the end consumer as well :rolleyes;
The anti-piracy methods don't work, so why delay launches for them?
 
Originally posted by: Lonyo
Originally posted by: Staples
I wish these hackers would find something productive to do. The reason these formats were delayed so long was because the MPAA was afraid that the encryption was not secure enough. These things have hardly even sold and they were already cracked. Guess what the industry reaction will be to this?

No more Blu Ray and no more HD DVD. I blame these hackers for holding back the future. Screw you hackers, go find productive to do.
Click to expand...

Yes, clearly draconian copy protection measures are the way to stop piracy, and help the end consumer as well :rolleyes;
The anti-piracy methods don't work, so why delay launches for them?
Click to expand...

I don't and I never did give a sh1t of whether you could copy disks or not. I take care of mine and anyone with elemetary responsibility can too. I know this is self serving interest but I hope hackers never find a way of copying these things. There are way too many people who have the responsibility of a 5 year old and forcing people to do something so hard like taking care of their disk forces responsibility on the user.

And 99% of the time when people speak of backups, they are talking in reality about stealing the disk so I hope these things never get cracked. And then maybe a HD video format can proliferate (sp).
 
Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
good, fair use baby! make that hddvd format viable!
Click to expand...

I just remembered...wasn't HD DVD supposed to allow owners to copy it in some fashion to share in their own home?
 
meh with limits, probably have to use their clunky software and other nonsense. real fair use is just ripping it and encoding it into whatever you want.
 
Originally posted by: Staples
I wish these hackers would find something productive to do. The reason these formats were delayed so long was because the MPAA was afraid that the encryption was not secure enough. These things have hardly even sold and they were already cracked. Guess what the industry reaction will be to this?

No more Blu Ray and no more HD DVD. I blame these hackers for holding back the future. Screw you hackers, go find productive to do.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I feel terrible for those poor movie execs who lobby congress to extend copyrights infinitely and strip Americans of their fair use rights. Fsck Hollywood, I hope it dies.
 
Originally posted by: Staples
I wish these hackers would find something productive to do. The reason these formats were delayed so long was because the MPAA was afraid that the encryption was not secure enough. These things have hardly even sold and they were already cracked. Guess what the industry reaction will be to this?

No more Blu Ray and no more HD DVD. I blame these hackers for holding back the future. Screw you hackers, go find productive to do.
Click to expand...

Hacking the new HD formats is VERY productive. See, dumb people are just content on putting a disc in a player and having it play. Unfortunately, they can't understand there are better ways of doing things. Having a media server that houses ALL your DVDs (or HD-DVD/Blu-Ray in the future) in a file format allows you to have easier and more convenient access to ALL your movies. You can stream all your movies to any room in your home by just select the movie on the screen, and ONLY the movie plays. NO more bullsh!t waiting on the FBI warnings, no more waiting on the dumb ass previews your FORCED to watch, no selecting if you want bonus features. It just plays the movie from the beginning. Basically you can have an on demand system in your own home. Total control of what you want to watch, when you want to watch it. Just like it should be. I BOUGHT the movie, and I'll do with it as I'd like. Don't tell me I HAVE to watch the previews or HAVE to watch warnings every time I want to watch MY OWN movie that I PAID for.

Like I said, narrow minded people with no vision, are very content on what they are offered, take it as it is and just say, "can I have more sh!t please?" Hackers crack the code to allow for innovation. Without it, you'd have to buy this hunk of sh!t to serve up your movie collection.
 
Originally posted by: JackBurton
Originally posted by: Staples
I wish these hackers would find something productive to do. The reason these formats were delayed so long was because the MPAA was afraid that the encryption was not secure enough. These things have hardly even sold and they were already cracked. Guess what the industry reaction will be to this?

No more Blu Ray and no more HD DVD. I blame these hackers for holding back the future. Screw you hackers, go find productive to do.
Click to expand...

Hacking the new HD formats is VERY productive. See, dumb people are just content on putting a disc in a player and having it play. Unfortunately, they can't understand there are better ways of doing things. Having a media server that houses ALL your DVDs (or HD-DVD/Blu-Ray in the future) in a file format allows you to have easier and more convenient access to ALL your movies. You can stream all your movies to any room in your home by just select the movie on the screen, and ONLY the movie plays. NO more bullsh!t waiting on the FBI warnings, no more waiting on the dumb ass previews your FORCED to watch, no selecting if you want bonus features. It just plays the movie from the beginning. Basically you can have an on demand system in your own home. Total control of what you want to watch, when you want to watch it. Just like it should be. I BOUGHT the movie, and I'll do with it as I'd like. Don't tell me I HAVE to watch the previews or HAVE to watch warnings every time I want to watch MY OWN movie that I PAID for.

Like I said, narrow minded people with no vision, are very content on what they are offered, take it as it is and just say, "can I have more sh!t please?" Hackers crack the code to allow for innovation. Without it, you'd have to buy this hunk of sh!t to serve up your movie collection.
Click to expand...


Amen brother! I bought my 360-HD DVD player and I want to rip my HD-DVD's!
 
Originally posted by: Eomer of Aldburg
Originally posted by: JackBurton
Originally posted by: Staples
I wish these hackers would find something productive to do. The reason these formats were delayed so long was because the MPAA was afraid that the encryption was not secure enough. These things have hardly even sold and they were already cracked. Guess what the industry reaction will be to this?

No more Blu Ray and no more HD DVD. I blame these hackers for holding back the future. Screw you hackers, go find productive to do.
Click to expand...

Hacking the new HD formats is VERY productive. See, dumb people are just content on putting a disc in a player and having it play. Unfortunately, they can't understand there are better ways of doing things. Having a media server that houses ALL your DVDs (or HD-DVD/Blu-Ray in the future) in a file format allows you to have easier and more convenient access to ALL your movies. You can stream all your movies to any room in your home by just select the movie on the screen, and ONLY the movie plays. NO more bullsh!t waiting on the FBI warnings, no more waiting on the dumb ass previews your FORCED to watch, no selecting if you want bonus features. It just plays the movie from the beginning. Basically you can have an on demand system in your own home. Total control of what you want to watch, when you want to watch it. Just like it should be. I BOUGHT the movie, and I'll do with it as I'd like. Don't tell me I HAVE to watch the previews or HAVE to watch warnings every time I want to watch MY OWN movie that I PAID for.

Like I said, narrow minded people with no vision, are very content on what they are offered, take it as it is and just say, "can I have more sh!t please?" Hackers crack the code to allow for innovation. Without it, you'd have to buy this hunk of sh!t to serve up your movie collection.
Click to expand...


Amen brother! I bought my 360-HD DVD player and I want to rip my HD-DVD's!
Click to expand...
With HD-DVDs, I think all you need to do is copy the file from your HD-DVD drive to your hard drive (simple copy & paste). And I wonder if you can play the files from your hard drive with the newest version of PowerDVD.
 
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