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HBO's True Detective Season 2 - let's discuss!

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I'm trying to like it, but I'm not really feeling the love here.

The whole season seemed a really forced to me, I'm still not sure I've a few of them even seriously, I'd usually fall asleep.

So that isn't a good thing.

Still better than the majority of things out there.
 
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Childs said:
I dont mind them dying, but both died dumb. Colin still had a fighting chance and just gave up when he didnt have to. Vaughn could have lived if he simply gave up the suit. He capitulated to the Russian when the odds werent in his favor, so I dont know why he chose that moment to make a stand when he had absolutely no shot. Even if he lost the diamonds, he'd still have his life.
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Ray had to basically ensure he was killed - otherwise, the bad cops would have tortured him to get the location/escape plan for Bezzerides. Frank was dead either way - they had dug a grave that was visible in some of the shots.
 
Gunslinger08 said:
Ray had to basically ensure he was killed - otherwise, the bad cops would have tortured him to get the location/escape plan for Bezzerides. Frank was dead either way - they had dug a grave that was visible in some of the shots.
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I think Frank could have gotten out, had he give up his suit. Though, he would have had nothing to show for it after.

Ray knew he was done. He only saw one tail, but there easily could have been more. He knew he was dead and was just buying time to send his farewell to his son. Unfortunately, once that failed, he was broken and just gave up.
 
Childs said:
The orphaned brother also died stupidly. He was crazy with rage so its somewhat understandable, but still. Waiting years to plan out your revenge then losing your shit when you hear Caspere screwed your mother and he was the sisters father. Its not like he wouldn't have killed Caspere and those cops anyway, so stick to the plan!
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Something I totally didn't think about, but just read elsewhere: The brother flipped out because his sister had admitted to sleeping with Caspere and Holloway just told him that Caspere was her father. She slept with her dad.
 
Gunslinger08 said:
Ray had to basically ensure he was killed - otherwise, the bad cops would have tortured him to get the location/escape plan for Bezzerides. Frank was dead either way - they had dug a grave that was visible in some of the shots.
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Colin still had a chance. He killed 2 out of the 5 guys with one clip. If his plan was simply to buy time he could have stayed on the highway and went to Vegas or something. If it was to ensure the escape plan was secured, he could have simply killed himself right away. And if his plan was to hold out until he sent that message to his son, how about not drive into the mountains where there is no coverage? I dont mind him dying, but it should have been handled better.

And as far as Vaughn, they were leaving before the henchman asked for his suit. I think they were happy enough with the cash they took off him. I think maybe smackababy was right in that he was gambling that they would just beat his ass and leave him with the suit. But man, they already brought him out there to kill him. Even made someone dig a grave in that heat! If they were going to kill him in the first place, he should have just done what he needed to do to get out of it. Live to fight another day. Obviously hindsight is 20/20, but he already knew they were cold blooded killers.

Gunslinger08 said:
Something I totally didn't think about, but just read elsewhere: The brother flipped out because his sister had admitted to sleeping with Caspere and Holloway just told him that Caspere was her father. She slept with her dad.
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Yeah, but he already knew he had his parents killed and his sister was screwing him. Thats pretty bad too! lol
 
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Childs said:
Colin still had a chance. He killed 2 out of the 5 guys with one clip. If his plan was simply to buy time he could have stayed on the highway and went to Vegas or something. If it was to ensure the escape plan was secured, he could have simply killed himself right away. And if his plan was to hold out until he sent that message to his son, how about not drive into the mountains where there is no coverage? I dont mind him dying, but it should have been handled better.
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Velcoro was a fuck up! So, his running into the heavy woods, hoping the message would send is just typical "good idea, bad implementation". They even told him before they picked him because nobody thought he was that competent.

And as far as Vaughn, they were leaving before the henchman asked for his suit. I think they were happy enough with the cash they took off him. I think maybe smackababy was right in that he was gambling that they would just beat his ass and leave him with the suit. But man, they already brought him out there to kill him. Even made someone dig a grave in that heat! If they were going to kill him in the first place, he should have just done what he needed to do go get out of it. Live to fight another day. Obviously hindsight is 20/20, but he already knew they were cold blooded killers.
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Vaughn's death made sense in his character. He fought, hard, for everything he had and wasn't going to simply hand over everything in hopes of living. He couldn't live like that. He wouldn't run with $100k. He wouldn't run with nothing. He had to fight and he gambled they would just knock him around some and laugh it off. Him being defiant after giving them $1 million. Even after he was stabbed, the main Mexican didn't seem to be one to want to kill him.
 
Regardless of whether or not you think Frank could have lived by giving them his suit, I think we can all agree that his decision to not do it fits with his character. His entire part of the story is about trying to get back his money at all costs. It makes sense that his character would gamble with his life to keep the diamonds. I would be interested to know why the Armenians sold him out to the Mexicans.

Ray's "suicide" makes less sense - I don't think "he gave up" is good enough, if that's what the writers intended. I suggested that he would be captured and tortured for the location of Bezzerides, but I don't know how realistic that would be. I'd be interested to see an interview with the show runner/lead writer.
 
kn51 said:
Underwhelming was a kind word...and it carried across the whole eight episodes.

While I like Vaughn (Old School, Dodgeball, Wedding Crashers, etc.) , he was definitely miscast for the role.

Given the gimpy writing, he was dealt a rough hand of cards.
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Everytime he was on screen I kept imagining what his lines would sound like if it was middle-aged Al Pacino, or Jason Statham playing the part. And everytime it would have given a MUCH better performance. He lacked enthusiasm. He talked lamely though all his lines when he could have livened them up a bit with some emotion. Instead, just dead eyed, slackjawed, trying too hard to be a tough gangster. Made for some seriously boring television. I know quite a few people who gave up watching the show because they "just cant get past the fact that its Vince Vaughn playing a gangster."
 
smackababy said:
Vaughn's death made sense in his character. He fought, hard, for everything he had and wasn't going to simply hand over everything in hopes of living. He couldn't live like that. He wouldn't run with $100k. He wouldn't run with nothing. He had to fight and he gambled they would just knock him around some and laugh it off. Him being defiant after giving them $1 million. Even after he was stabbed, the main Mexican didn't seem to be one to want to kill him.
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Gunslinger08 said:
Regardless of whether or not you think Frank could have lived by giving them his suit, I think we can all agree that his decision to not do it fits with his character. His entire part of the story is about trying to get back his money at all costs. It makes sense that his character would gamble with his life to keep the diamonds. I would be interested to know why the Armenians sold him out to the Mexicans.
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But in a way that was inconsistent with what we've seen in the show. Vaughn played the long game. When a situation wasn't purely in his favor he just talked his way out. If he survived the desert he could have went after the Mexicans another time, like he did with the Russians.

In that last sequence in the desert I was half expecting him to make it, fueled purely on hate. haha It was a good sequence, but I would have like it better it they just stabbed or shot him to begin with instead of making it about a suit.

And because we can't agree on anything, haha, I'm not sure the Armenians gave him up. If so, the Mexican's would have known about the diamonds, which they didnt. Unless they simply wanted him dead, but they would have made another $500K if he lived.

EDIT: Actually, he got the diamonds from someone else. Still dont know that they would have given him up though.
 
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The only issue I had with acting this season was Jordan. Maybe she was directed to act this way, but she always seemed like she either didn't give a shit or had just taken 10 Valium.
 
Childs said:
And because we can't agree on anything, haha, I'm not sure the Armenians gave him up. If so, the Mexican's would have known about the diamonds, which they didnt. Unless they simply wanted him dead, but they would have made another $500K if he lived.
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I have no idea how else they would have found him in his clean car. The director made a point to show the Armenians watching him leave and then looking at each other with shitty expressions. They also had Frank mention the extra $500k when he "got where he needed to be" several times. TV in general is pretty heavy handed, so I assume they were pointing at the Armenians selling him out.

On the topic of cars, why the hell would a "secret" transponder have a bright red LED on the side?
 
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FuzzyDunlop said:
Everytime he was on screen I kept imagining what his lines would sound like if it was middle-aged Al Pacino, or Jason Statham playing the part. And everytime it would have given a MUCH better performance. He lacked enthusiasm. He talked lamely though all his lines when he could have livened them up a bit with some emotion. Instead, just dead eyed, slackjawed, trying too hard to be a tough gangster. Made for some seriously boring television. I know quite a few people who gave up watching the show because they "just cant get past the fact that its Vince Vaughn playing a gangster."
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I completely disagree. Al Pacino and Jason Statham wouldn't fit. Al Pacino isn't imposing enough to be realistic in the role, let alone isn't white. Not to mention, overacting the part is just stupid. Nobody acts like that, especially people who need to use strength to earn respect. Some animated diatribes are fucking dumb. It works for a football coach, not a serious character. What lends to the realism is Vaughn looks like a white Irish American. He is big enough to lean on people and he had a hard life to toughen him up. Statham simply doesn't have the aura, and even if I think he could deliver the lines better (Snatch is a good example of him actually acting), he also doesn't quite fit the ascetic.
 
Childs said:
But in a way that was inconsistent with what we've seen in the show. Vaughn played the long game. When a situation wasn't purely in his favor he just talked his way out. If he survived the desert he could have went after the Mexicans another time, like he did with the Russians.

In that last sequence in the desert I was half expecting him to make it, fueled purely on hate. haha It was a good sequence, but I would have like it better it they just stabbed or shot him to begin with instead of making it about a suit.

And because we can't agree on anything, haha, I'm not sure the Armenians gave him up. If so, the Mexican's would have known about the diamonds, which they didnt. Unless they simply wanted him dead, but they would have made another $500K if he lived.
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He didn't get the diamonds from the Armenians. He got them from a completely separate party (the Jews?).
 
smackababy said:
He didn't get the diamonds from the Armenians. He got them from a completely separate party (the Jews?).
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Funny that no one says the j word when describing them like the other ethnic groups in the show...I even avoided it in my edit. lol

Anyways, yeah I remembered that afterwards. Still dont see the Armenians giving him up when theres still money on the table. The Mexicans didnt seem to even know he had any cash on him, but the Armenians knew.
 
smackababy said:
He didn't get the diamonds from the Armenians. He got them from a completely separate party (the Jews?).
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Yeah, another thing.. "We will guarantee the value of these diamonds...yada yada". So do I get some barcode coupon with that when I turn them in 5,000 miles away?

I guess what I find the most incredulous with the whole escape plot thing is they are going to Venezuela. I'm assuming it is based on extradition treaties since they aren't our buddies.
 
kn51 said:
Yeah, another thing.. "We will guarantee the value of these diamonds...yada yada". So do I get some barcode coupon with that when I turn them in 5,000 miles away?
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Diamonds hold their value. He paid more, I can't remember the deal, for high quality diamonds (small and easy to smuggle / hide, while still being extremely valuable and easy to liquidate into local currency).

I guess what I find the most incredulous with the whole escape plot thing is they are going to Venezuela. I'm assuming it is based on extradition treaties since they aren't our buddies.
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He talked about extradition being a plus, along with the already established human trafficking route used to smuggle people INTO the country.


Also, people getting butt hurt about me calling the diamond sellers the Jews need to watch the fucking show. Both men working there (the one inspecting the money and the one giving Frank the diamonds) were wearing yamakas and had the traditional Hasidic beard. I don't know the "proper" term for the opposite of a Gentile. A semite?
 
smackababy said:
I think Frank could have gotten out, had he give up his suit. Though, he would have had nothing to show for it after.

Ray knew he was done. He only saw one tail, but there easily could have been more. He knew he was dead and was just buying time to send his farewell to his son. Unfortunately, once that failed, he was broken and just gave up.
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liked the final episode the best. Liked the fact that it ended so dark. Frank would've gotten out had he not asked for a ride in the first place. I was kind of sad to see him go. Yea, he was a gangster, but he had a good moral compass. Didn't care for Ani at all. And she's the one who survived. I'd rather have had Velcoro live than Ani.
 
smackababy said:
Is Jew even considered a derogatory term? If someone is Jewish, wtf are they?
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Its one of those depends how you say it things, but its not worth the hassle. Intent is easily lost when written. Even just saying 'Mexicans' is kinda shitty, but it was made funny when Vaughn said 'I'm in a Mexican Standoff with Mexicans', so it took. Usually when someone says Jew or The Jews, its a Nazi like in The Strain. I was going to say the jewlers, but thought screw it, 'someone else gave him the diamonds.' hahaha
 
I've never seen Vaughn is any movie before. So I had no expectations. I thought he did a decent job. Better than the others. I found Vaughn the only one I could watch without wanting to turn off the television.

When the Mexicans wanted his suite, he could just have said: "Know what ? I rather keep my pride. I'll keep the suite, and walk back myself". The Mexicans would have laughed about that, and thought "let that dumb beloved patriot walk back in the heat". They would have thought it was funny to let him walk.
Much more secure than starting a fist-fight with people who carry guns and knives.

I enjoyed the last 2 episodes a bit more than the first 6. Still, pretty worthless series. And when you compare it to season 1, you wonder how the heck they got season 1 to be like it was. That Cary Joji Fukunaga guy must be the true genius.
 
Gryz said:
And when you compare it to season 1, you wonder how the heck they got season 1 to be like it was. That Cary Joji Fukunaga guy must be the true genius.
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pizzolatto is from louisiana and he assembled that story with stuff he's very familiar with. having a single director for the entire season would have helped immensely. someone involved with the impact of each episode on the whole story - but not a writer.
 
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