HBO : Rape in the Congo

[irishScott]

Originally posted by: vi edit

Originally posted by: Auryg

Hopefully the internet making it's way there will help things along, but past that, they'll have to go through the same hardships almost every civilization has.

$100 laptops and internet access isn't going to do jack crap to fix this.

We'd be better off making air drops of weapons with step by step directions on how to use them so they at least have a chance of defending themselves.

Yeah, because weapons are really hard to find in Africa. :roll:

 

[Wheezer]

bottom line....these people and their culture has existed far longer than America has......if they have not got their shit straight now, they never will.

 

[ed21x]

Originally posted by: magreen
Guess what? If SA hadn't been held in an imperialist vice-grip until 20 years ago it would most likely be just like the rest of Africa. The lovely cities you mention are all the direct product of the European rulers. Your using those cities as an example of great accomplishments in Africa is like calling Los Angeles a Native American wonder.

And Farang, after reading this thread from a dispassionate perspective, I find AgentBolt's arguments to be the most logical and cogent (I am passionate that the atrocities being commited there are enough to be sick many times over. But I am dispassionate as to who's responsible.). I don't think you've adequately responded to AB's critique of 1) your explanation of why the ME differs from Africa, and 2) how you can compare Burma's atrocities to the Congo's.

you completely missed the point didn't you? And besides, you make it sound like western influence is a God-send. Heck Asia would be ruling the world now (rather than in 20 years) if it wasn't for uninvited western influence screwing things up in the past 50 years. But alas if you want to make such blatant generalities, at least have the heart to do your research so you would actually sound like you know what you're talking about.

But I will leave you with this- unlike the United States, which is fragmented by racism, all races in South Africa (Black, white, and colored) consider themselves South African, and are damn proud of it. No race feels more entitled to being South African. This is a foreign concept to you because you are so obsessed with your caucasian western superiority complex, you don't have the ability to grasp that people in other nations are able to look over racial divides to find some kind of unity.

 

[Pocatello]

Originally posted by: ed21x

Originally posted by: magreen
Guess what? If SA hadn't been held in an imperialist vice-grip until 20 years ago it would most likely be just like the rest of Africa. The lovely cities you mention are all the direct product of the European rulers. Your using those cities as an example of great accomplishments in Africa is like calling Los Angeles a Native American wonder.

And Farang, after reading this thread from a dispassionate perspective, I find AgentBolt's arguments to be the most logical and cogent (I am passionate that the atrocities being commited there are enough to be sick many times over. But I am dispassionate as to who's responsible.). I don't think you've adequately responded to AB's critique of 1) your explanation of why the ME differs from Africa, and 2) how you can compare Burma's atrocities to the Congo's.

you completely missed the point didn't you? And besides, you make it sound like western influence is a God-send. Heck Asia would be ruling the world now (rather than in 20 years) if it wasn't for uninvited western influence screwing things up in the past 50 years. But alas if you want to make such blatant generalities, at least have the heart to do your research so you would actually sound like you know what you're talking about.

But I will leave you with this- unlike the United States, which is fragmented by racism, all races in South Africa (Black, white, and colored) consider themselves South African, and are damn proud of it. No race feels more entitled to being South African. This is a foreign concept to you because you are so obsessed with your caucasian western superiority complex, you don't have the ability to grasp that people in other nations are able to look over racial divides to find some kind of unity.

I have to disagree with you on this. The US certainly has it race problem, just like any other country with so many group of immigrants. From my experience as an immigrant, along with my family members in the States, we are thankful to be a part of the American experience . This country has given us a place to stay,good education, good paying jobs, and citizenship. You cannot ask for more than that. But you have to work for the dream, just like everybody. The opportunities are there.

 

[Inspector Jihad]

Originally posted by: amoeba

Originally posted by: Agentbolt

Originally posted by: Farang
There is a lot of disinformation and ignorance in this thread. For those of you who are concerned about this, I encourage you to read about why Africa has so many problems. What it basically boils down to is arbitrarily drawn borders from the colonial era and resource-rich states that depend on foreigners purchasing natural resources, rather than domestic tax dollars, for revenue. This means the government has no obligation to the people. Police, army, etc. all serve as a self-defense mechanism for the government rather than for the people, and because the people aren't paying taxes and don't get any support from the government they see it as something separate from them. The government does not build roads, schools, or other infrastructure according to the people's needs, but instead it operates as if it were a private business (with a monopoly on violence) and builds infrastructure only when it helps increase revenue. Compounding this are the borders, which split ethnic groups in two and put all sorts of people together who traditionally have not been. So you have a national government that is only really recognized in the capital, and when you go out into the countryside they either have their own authority or none at all. The government doesn't bother trying to be the authority because there is nothing in it for them.

In a system like ours, the government needs the people to pay taxes in order to continue operating. In these rentier states, that social contract doesn't exist.

Don't oversimplify Africa--'they can't get their shit together,' 'they don't care,' etc.

Bullshit, there are lawless places everywhere where the government basically serves only to increase its own interests. Any resource rich area (the middle east, south america) is going to have that problem, and those places do indeed suck. But Africa is in a class by itself. Don't whine about how it's the fault of the evil white man who carved the countries up and disregarded cultural differences, most of these countries have been under their own rule for at least a hundred years and have gotten far worse.

did you even read his post? where did he blame white people?

I happen to find Farang's post extremely informative and logical whereas yours seem to just spew rhetoric.

qft...props to Farang

 

[magreen]

ed21x, your post is full of invective with precious little content. It smacks of a knee-jerk emotional reaction without logical thought behind it. Please either respond to my points with logical statements, or leave it to Farang who is capable of such.

As far as SA being racially tolerant, that is laughable. The Afrikaners look down on the blacks as completely inferior, and have even created Afrikaner-only colonies in certain extreme cases.

 

[Fritzo]

Journalist Ann Curry from NBC News has taken up their cause and has done a lot of in-depth reporting on the issue. In fact, her reporting has caused the US to take notice. If the US weren't already stretched thin, we would probably be there with UN Peacekeepers.

 

[Feldenak]

Originally posted by: Modelworks
Just enter rape in the congo in google.
I thank the documentary for opening my eyes to something I had no idea was taking place.

Africa's a shithole and has been for years...where have you been?

 

[Modelworks]

Originally posted by: Fritzo
Journalist Ann Curry from NBC News has taken up their cause and has done a lot of in-depth reporting on the issue. In fact, her reporting has caused the US to take notice. If the US weren't already stretched thin, we would probably be there with UN Peacekeepers.

I hope that we will do something.
I know we can't do like we are doing in Iraq, but surely we could send some support.
The UN is not going to help things.

 

[Feldenak]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: Pocatello
They want help, but as soon as we help them, they call us imperialist pigs. The U.S is very good at fighting conventional warfare, but these people will hide among the civilians and fight dirty, just like Somalia, Iraq and Afghanistan. We use Apache and AC-130 gunships to kill them in their hideouts with their families, before you know it, we are the bad guys to the locals. We can give them money and food, but the warlords and their soldiers will take most of the aids, it's a way to control the population.

I'm afraid with your illegal wars you no longer have the credibility to do anything beneficial to the human race as a whole. What did the Iraq war achieve? Nothing! Only more deaths and a conflict that might continue for years to come. You musn't forget that the way Africa has been treated by the rest of the world especially Europeans, Americans and Arabs has been one reason why Africa has still not recovered.

As U.S. citizen I'll take responsibility for Liberia...lay the rest of that continent on Europe's doorstep.

 

[Modelworks]

Originally posted by: Feldenak

Originally posted by: Modelworks
Just enter rape in the congo in google.
I thank the documentary for opening my eyes to something I had no idea was taking place.

Africa's a shithole and has been for years...where have you been?

I knew africa had its problems with the diamond trade.
What I had no idea of is the problems with rape and sexual abuse.
Its like Africa is everyones dirty little secret that they all know about but could care less.

I see many saying "Its not our problem, we didn't make it that way"
Thats really sad to see.
I would think children being abused is everyones problem.
But I guess thats not the case with people anymore.


Ask yourself if you saw a child on the street being abused would you do something ?
So, because the child is there and not here, they don't deserve the same consideration ?
Its just too much trouble, they aren't worth it ?
Out of sight out of mind I guess

 

[tfinch2]

I have learned one thing from this thread, Agentbolt oozes douchebaggery.

 

[Feldenak]

Originally posted by: Modelworks

Originally posted by: Feldenak

Originally posted by: Modelworks
Just enter rape in the congo in google.
I thank the documentary for opening my eyes to something I had no idea was taking place.

Africa's a shithole and has been for years...where have you been?

I knew africa had its problems with the diamond trade.
What I had no idea of is the problems with rape and sexual abuse.
Its like Africa is everyones dirty little secret that they all know about but could care less.

I see many saying "Its not our problem, we didn't make it that way"
Thats really sad to see.
I would think children being abused is everyones problem.
But I guess thats not the case with people anymore.


Ask yourself if you saw a child on the street being abused would you do something ?
So, because the child is there and not here, they don't deserve the same consideration ?
Its just too much trouble, they aren't worth it ?
Out of sight out of mind I guess

Where am I when I see this child being abused? In a civilized nation, I call the police. In some jerkwater African country, I'd be more concerned with saving my own ass.

 

[alkemyst]

This has been going on about as long as AT...my first ban here was around 1998/99 when I made a joke about this.

It's messed up, but this is more affect than cause. Unless we are going to bankroll the whole country this kind of stuff will happen.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: ed21x

Originally posted by: magreen
Guess what? If SA hadn't been held in an imperialist vice-grip until 20 years ago it would most likely be just like the rest of Africa. The lovely cities you mention are all the direct product of the European rulers. Your using those cities as an example of great accomplishments in Africa is like calling Los Angeles a Native American wonder.

And Farang, after reading this thread from a dispassionate perspective, I find AgentBolt's arguments to be the most logical and cogent (I am passionate that the atrocities being commited there are enough to be sick many times over. But I am dispassionate as to who's responsible.). I don't think you've adequately responded to AB's critique of 1) your explanation of why the ME differs from Africa, and 2) how you can compare Burma's atrocities to the Congo's.

you completely missed the point didn't you? And besides, you make it sound like western influence is a God-send. Heck Asia would be ruling the world now (rather than in 20 years) if it wasn't for uninvited western influence screwing things up in the past 50 years. But alas if you want to make such blatant generalities, at least have the heart to do your research so you would actually sound like you know what you're talking about.

But I will leave you with this- unlike the United States, which is fragmented by racism, all races in South Africa (Black, white, and colored) consider themselves South African, and are damn proud of it. No race feels more entitled to being South African. This is a foreign concept to you because you are so obsessed with your caucasian western superiority complex, you don't have the ability to grasp that people in other nations are able to look over racial divides to find some kind of unity.

Are you kidding? Asia would be nothing without western capital investments and technical expertise. Case in point - Vietnam, kicked out the US, they suffered post Vietnam War. Korea - one of the asian tigers that benefited from western influx of capital investments.

Asians will never "rule the world" they are too apathetic, lack broad leadership, and only care about themselves.

 

[Agentbolt]

Originally posted by: tfinch2
I have learned one thing from this thread, Agentbolt oozes douchebaggery.

Wah wah wah. You don't like, gather up your little blanket and go cry in your pup tent for awhile. Unlike you, I'm backing up my arguments with facts or reasoned opinions. You're just crying like a little bitch.

 

[MrChad]

Originally posted by: Modelworks

Originally posted by: bignateyk

Originally posted by: Modelworks
It is sad.
I think the thing that angers me the most is that these people could be helped by the USA if we gave a damn.
We could send troops and aid that wouldn't cost anything near what Iraq is costing and have such a huge impact .

That worked out real well in Somalia

I'm not referring to some UN run peace corps type crap.
But full deployment.
Ousting the warlords, not funding them, like the cia did in somalia.
We can do it with iraq, a country that doesn't want us there, and isn't even trying to work with us, but not somewhere that really wants help.

I guess there is just no profit in africa .

Many of these countries are composed of disparate tribes who do not get along. When you take away the dictators and warlords, you create a power vacuum that would result in civil war and genocide. This is what happened when the countries gained independence from their European rulers. The leaders who came to power (and are now reluctant to relinquish it) brought stability to chaotic situations.

You are assuming that the people of these countries would be united in their effort to establish democracy and fair rule. That is a flawed and dangerous assumption.

 

[Jschmuck2]

Originally posted by: sutahz
You should contat Jshmuck2. I'm sure he'll sell all his belongins and move to Africa to help out. They have all the problems he'd like to see fixed.

Originally posted by: Jschmuck2
After reading that thread where keys stepped down as a moderator, I'm trying to understand...how shall I put this....what the fuck is wrong with some of you.

IT

IS

A

PIECE

OF

COMPUTER

EQUIPMENT

In many cases, not even a necessary one. People are starving in the world, govermental corruption runs rampant, women are raped and murdered on a daily basis, there's a genocide occuring in Darfur and you are here arguing over a stupid fuck piece of printed circuit board and which one has the better image quality?

And what really gets me is that people can really take sides in that argument? How the hell do you get so enamored with a company that makes video cards that you're willing to scream and shout and introduce all kinds of ridiculous argumentative rhetoric?

I would reply to this, but I wouldn't want to offend your delicate sensibilities and make you run crying to the mods, as you did here

http://forums.anandtech.com/me...=2170208&enterthread=y



EDIT: So please don't cry

 

[MrMajestyk]

Originally posted by: Auryg

Originally posted by: ed21x

Originally posted by: Feldenak
Congo, Zimbabwe, Sudan...is there anything positive about Africa other than cool archeology sites?

The stereotypes and generalization is strong in this thread. People need to make their way to the nation of South Africa and open their eyes to the positive realities that don't make the news.

<~ Missionary to SA.

You mean the South Africa where 1 in 3 women have been raped, and where one in four boys interviewed said that gang rape was fun?

Link

Yeah. Great country.

:thumbsup:

And where the President Mbeki challenges the rest of the world on aids.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/934435.stm

And it's the murder capital of the world.

http://www.frontline.org.za/ar...ingaway_withmurder.htm

And don't mention Nelson Mandela. He has to be the most overated polititian of all time. Soweto is still intact.

This is not a racist comment, just a plain fact. The Africans are incapable of running their own affairs. It's like they have their very own built in corruption gene. The only reason they have elections in Africa is get their hands on the cash register. If and whenever their is a change of government in Zimbabwe, the west would be foolish to pour money in, as who knows where the money will go.

Africa may not have had much under colonial rule, but they were a lot better off than they are now.

There is however one exception to the rule, Botswana. Showing how it should be done.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Botswana

Finally, if you want to see a definative film on the screwing of Africa, beg, borrow or steal Darwin's Nightmare.

"When the doc-movie was over people stayed in their seats for minutes in total silence. It's a hard movie that will shake your mind and heart in a terrible way. poverty, diseases, abuse, and a hopeless future. African people just don't deserve this present and future .....a story that happens now in too many places in the world were social structures are falling apart because of the international globalization of economics, were the rich get richer and the poor get poorer if that is even possible....."

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0424024/

 

[Fritzo]

Originally posted by: Modelworks

Originally posted by: Fritzo
Journalist Ann Curry from NBC News has taken up their cause and has done a lot of in-depth reporting on the issue. In fact, her reporting has caused the US to take notice. If the US weren't already stretched thin, we would probably be there with UN Peacekeepers.

I hope that we will do something.
I know we can't do like we are doing in Iraq, but surely we could send some support.
The UN is not going to help things.

That's the hole we're in now- Bush has made the UN so gun shy about ANY military action that they're basically a powerless institution. Hopefully our next president- from either party- will get our trust back.

 

[austin316]

Africa is a waste of a Continent.

 

[Feldenak]

Originally posted by: Fritzo

Originally posted by: Modelworks

Originally posted by: Fritzo
Journalist Ann Curry from NBC News has taken up their cause and has done a lot of in-depth reporting on the issue. In fact, her reporting has caused the US to take notice. If the US weren't already stretched thin, we would probably be there with UN Peacekeepers.

I hope that we will do something.
I know we can't do like we are doing in Iraq, but surely we could send some support.
The UN is not going to help things.

That's the hole we're in now- Bush has made the UN so gun shy about ANY military action that they're basically a powerless institution. Hopefully our next president- from either party- will get our trust back.

Personally, I'm not a big fan of the UN so IMO that's one of the few positives from the current administration.

 

[alien42]

Originally posted by: austin316
Africa is a waste of a Continent.

you are a waste of a human

 

[Farang]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: ed21x

Originally posted by: magreen
Guess what? If SA hadn't been held in an imperialist vice-grip until 20 years ago it would most likely be just like the rest of Africa. The lovely cities you mention are all the direct product of the European rulers. Your using those cities as an example of great accomplishments in Africa is like calling Los Angeles a Native American wonder.

And Farang, after reading this thread from a dispassionate perspective, I find AgentBolt's arguments to be the most logical and cogent (I am passionate that the atrocities being commited there are enough to be sick many times over. But I am dispassionate as to who's responsible.). I don't think you've adequately responded to AB's critique of 1) your explanation of why the ME differs from Africa, and 2) how you can compare Burma's atrocities to the Congo's.

you completely missed the point didn't you? And besides, you make it sound like western influence is a God-send. Heck Asia would be ruling the world now (rather than in 20 years) if it wasn't for uninvited western influence screwing things up in the past 50 years. But alas if you want to make such blatant generalities, at least have the heart to do your research so you would actually sound like you know what you're talking about.

But I will leave you with this- unlike the United States, which is fragmented by racism, all races in South Africa (Black, white, and colored) consider themselves South African, and are damn proud of it. No race feels more entitled to being South African. This is a foreign concept to you because you are so obsessed with your caucasian western superiority complex, you don't have the ability to grasp that people in other nations are able to look over racial divides to find some kind of unity.

Are you kidding? Asia would be nothing without western capital investments and technical expertise. Case in point - Vietnam, kicked out the US, they suffered post Vietnam War. Korea - one of the asian tigers that benefited from western influx of capital investments.

Asians will never "rule the world" they are too apathetic, lack broad leadership, and only care about themselves.

I'm surprised nobody responded to this. I'm going to be a bit inflammatory here and call you a racist, if only because I'm not sure how that last comment of yours isn't racist.

As most people know China was the most advanced empire on Earth during many periods throughout history. If you look at trends of advancement in different civilizations, it comes when there is a strong centralization of government. The height of the Roman Empire in comparison to the following Dark Ages, for example. The reason Europeans appear so dominant if we look at a relatively short window of history (the past 200-300 years) is because during the crucial period leading up to and during the industrial revolution, China underwent a period of decentralization while Europe did the opposite. So Europe was able to effectively use new technologies and colonize Asia, while Asia's decentralization and weak leadership during that time led them to be ineffective in inventing or using similar technologies.

Western influence went both ways in Vietnam, as Marxism was responsible for the post-war suffering of Vietnam (as was the destruction of its infrastructure by the United States). Marx was a German. The reason they were open to be so heavily influenced goes back to the decentralization Asia suffered during the industrial revolution, causing them to be colonized for many years under the French.

I'm not sure why I'm bothering arguing here because the opposing view always seems to be someone trying to oversimplify a situation they know little about. They're making instinctive assumptions about very complex situations.

 

[Jschmuck2]

^^^
Owned. Hard.