Hawaii to limit birth record requests

[ModerateRepZero]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/14/us/politics/14hawaii.html?hp

Hawaii Limits Requests on Obama File
By MICHAEL COOPER
Published: May 13, 2010

HONOLULU — The conspiracy theorists who cling to the false belief that President Obama was born outside the United States outrage many Democrats and embarrass many Republicans. But to a group of state workers who toil away in a long building across from the Capitol, they represent something else: a headache and a waste of time.

The theorists, known as “birthers,” have deluged the state Health Department here with so many demands for information about the president’s birth in Hawaii that Gov. Linda Lingle, a Republican, signed a law this week allowing state agencies to ignore repeated requests from people who have had a request answered in the last year.

It comes none too soon for Health Department workers, who have been inundated with so many requests for the president’s birth records that a printout of the e-mail messages they have received on the topic through March stands some 13 inches high. Each one required a response, and many required consultations with state lawyers.

“It became really, really a burden,” said Janice Okubo, a spokeswoman for the department, who said that handling the hundreds of requests took up huge amounts of the department’s time as it was trying to respond to an H1N1 flu outbreak. Many requests, she said, came from the same handful of people.

By Hawaiian law, birth records can only be released to people with “a direct and tangible” interest in them — a person born in the state, say, or certain relatives or their estates. So when questions about Mr. Obama’s birth first surfaced during the 2008 presidential election, his campaign posted a copy of his “certification of live birth” on a Web site; it states that Barack Hussein Obama II was born in Honolulu on Aug. 4, 1961, at 7:24 p.m.

When questions continued to pour in, the state’s health director, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, announced that she had seen the original records and that they showed that Mr. Obama was “born in Hawaii and is a natural born American citizen.”

When the questions persisted, the department created a Web page titled “Frequently Asked Questions About Vital Records of President Barack Hussein Obama II.” It did little to assuage the doubters.

Some of the e-mail messages were vulgar, others hostile. Health department workers found themselves vilified on blogs. “Your name will be synonymous with Benedict Arnold by the time this is done,” reads one that is signed, “an American natural-born citizen.” State Senator Will Espero, a Democrat who has a picture in his office of Mr. Obama and Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr. standing in front of a Hawaiian flag, said that he was dismayed by the persistent questions about the president’s birth. He noted that in 1961, newspapers in Honolulu printed birth announcements, including Mr. Obama’s.

“Unless somebody had a great conspiracy going back 40-something years, involving the newspapers and the hospitals, I don’t think there is any doubt,” Mr. Espero said.

He originally introduced a bill that would allow the state to release birth certificates, but ran into privacy concerns. Then the Health Department asked for help. So he introduced a bill allowing them to ignore “duplicative” requests that have been answered within the last year. Objections were raised that such a bill could give the government leeway to ignore legitimate requests, so Mr. Espero said the final bill was amended to try to address those concerns.

“Unfortunately, I don’t think it will end of the controversy,” Mr. Espero said. “But in terms of our own Department of Health, and their staff and the hours they are putting into this issue — hopefully it will give them a measure of relief, and allow them to work on some other issues besides just this birther issue.”

Whatever else I might think about state's rights in general, I'm glad that Hawaii is exercising its right to handle requests and access to birth records.

The sad thing is that the "birthers" will just see this as a conspiracy, despite the fact that *if* the actual birth certificate was ever shown, the birthers will just dismiss the document because "it shows he's born in the US, therefore it's a forgery!"

 

[theeedude]

They should just charge a fee for the records, make some money off birthers

 

[GoPackGo]

They should just charge a fee for the records, make some money off birthers

Could fix a budget deficit that way...great idea!!!

 

[HumblePie]

Could fix a budget deficit that way...great idea!!!

yep, $100 a request.

 

[highland145]

yep, $100 a request.

You're cheap. $1000 for non family.

I haven't been following this so be lenient on my ignorance. Or not.

Has it been verified by someone trustworthy( for both parties)? And, more simply, why not just post the real thing somewhere for viewing. Seems like a lot of effort to keep the pot stirred on both sides when it could be put to rest without legislation or law suits.

 

[JSt0rm]

ha great idea hawaii could sell obamas birth certificate hahaha.

 

[StageLeft]

Yeah what a waste of time.

 

[shira]

I hear the Tea Party is going to create a special toilet paper using a facsimile of Obama's birth certificate.

 

[Infohawk]

They should just charge a fee for the records, make some money off birthers

I agree.

It's a bad idea to limit answers. Just make them pay whatever fee and send them a packet of Obama stuff. That way they can't complain about the truth being hidden and it won't burden the state.

 

[Lemon law]

The whole birther thing has long gone past merely beating a dead horse, and now has becomes a form of mental illness.

After all, has it not been said, the definition of insanity is trying the same thing over and over and over again, and expecting to get a different outcome if they try it one more time.

I agree, since " By By Hawaiian law, birth records can only be released to people with “a direct and tangible” interest in them —law. Hawaii simple needs to establish a special court to handle such Obama requests, filing fee $2000 to process requests establishing that direct and and tangible interests to Obama's birth certificate, with a trip in person required to file.

At least they would get a great Hawaiian vacation out of the deal.

Meanwhile other Hawaiian businessmen can make a small fortune hawking totally fake Obama birth certificates that are clearly labeled as fakes, but suitable for pre charged framing at another large extra charge. That way everyone will be happy as fools and their money are more efficiently parted. And then Hawaii could make even more money by licensing such frauds, making the whole fleece the birther fools legal.

And since fraudulent birth certificate vendors are under no obligation to supply the same information twice, the birthers can argue among themselves regarding which fraudulent information is better than some other Fraud.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

They should just charge a fee for the records, make some money off birthers

For once you come up with a good idea. Well that broken clock and all


First request is whatever the going rate is. The second is 10 times that unless proof of loss (lets say the applicant has his residence burn down and submits an insurance report)

Each time there is a request without such documentation it goes up ten times that.

This is purely nonsense and to quote:

"everyone knows this"

 

[Throckmorton]

They should just charge a fee for the records, make some money off birthers

This bill isn't about providing the birth certificate. It's about people who can't legally get the document requesting it. Before this law, each request required a response, swamping the State and wasting resources.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

This bill isn't about providing the birth certificate. It's about people who can't legally get the document requesting it. Before this law, each request required a response, swamping the State and wasting resources.

Then if the request is specious pass a fine along as well. This whole Obama birth certificate stuff was nonsense to begin with. No one should be illegally requesting such documents.

 

[Hacp]

The one thing I wonder is why Obama doesn't just show his damn birth certificate(not the live birth one) so he can quiet all these wackos up. Just show the certificate! Its simple.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

The one thing I wonder is why Obama doesn't just show his damn birth certificate(not the live birth one) so he can quiet all these wackos up. Just show the certificate! Its simple.

He fulfilled the requirements of the law.

Dude, Throckmorton and Sensamp will tell you I'm no fan of a lot of crap going on, but there is a limit. HI has done what needed to be done, and a frigging REPUBLICAN governor has had enough of the bullshit.

If I had done all that and people still hounded me I'd tell them to screw off.

 

[Throckmorton]

The one thing I wonder is why Obama doesn't just show his damn birth certificate(not the live birth one) so he can quiet all these wackos up. Just show the certificate! Its simple.

Obama has nothing to gain. If he posts scans of his long form birth certificate, the birthers will only claim that they were also faked. Remember, these are people who believe there is a vast conspiracy to fake the official HI state documents, AND that the birth announcement in the newspaper was preforged so he could run for president half a century later. So why would the original birth certificate be any different?

 

[Lemon law]

The one thing I wonder is why Obama doesn't just show his damn birth certificate(not the live birth one) so he can quiet all these wackos up. Just show the certificate! Its simple.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
More Hasp bullshit, the Hawaii document is the the only gold standard.

But sing after me to the tune of John Henry, When Obama was a few hour old little baby, sitting on this mama's knees, he said mama mama fake a US birth certificate for me Lord Lord. Or I will never be able to beat that birther steam engine down and it will be the death of me Lord Lord. It will be the unmasking of me Lord Lord.

And then when Obama said to his Hawaiian striker, if I ever miss that little piece of steel, tomorrow will be your burying day. Lord Lord. As I will nuke all your Iskland to the ground if you ever betray me, Lord Lord.

I have not figured out what the second verse should be yet, but Hasp is FOS.

 

[Fern]

He fulfilled the requirements of the law.
-snip-

I do not believe there are any requirements under the law, other than his signature on the FEC form swearing he meets the requirements to be POTUS.

IIRC, his campaign etc posted that copy of his 'birth certificate' in response to the rumors/questions about his citizenship etc. In accordance with their original intent, I don't find it unreasonable that they could be asked to post a copy of the original.

Obama has nothing to gain. If he posts scans of his long form birth certificate, the birthers will only claim that they were also faked. Remember, these are people who believe there is a vast conspiracy to fake the official HI state documents, AND that the birth announcement in the newspaper was preforged so he could run for president half a century later. So why would the original birth certificate be any different?

You mis-state the concern/questions of many of the "birthers". Most do not deny the certificate published is a true copy. Their questions revolve around the nature of the original BC. At that time (1961), and even today, Hawaii offers several different types of BCs. Many 'birthers' question which type Obama was issued. Now, depending upon which type he has more questions may be generated. But to claim they'd simply call the original a fake is to unfairly terminate an argument/debate before it begins by placing words in your opponent's mouth.

It's pretty obvious the normal thing would just be to publish the original and put a stop to all the speculation. For some reason Obama doesn't want to do that. Perhaps he, and his supporters, like the idea of "birthers" and perpetuate them as convenient sources of ridicule. Or maybe he doesn't have the straight-up 'normal' BC and and a sh!t-storm would ensue. None of us know.

But yeah, if he has the 'normal' BC he has plenty to gain by posting it. It would be more one step toward reducing the ranks of "birthers" and making those left look even more ridiculous.

Fern

 

[cubby1223]

“It became really, really a burden,” said Janice Okubo, a spokeswoman for the department, who said that handling the hundreds of requests took up huge amounts of the department’s time as it was trying to respond to an H1N1 flu outbreak."

Heh - I can see the MSNBC nightly talking point, Tea Party extremists want the H1N1 flu to spread.

 

[Throckmorton]

I do not believe there are any requirements under the law, other than his signature on the FEC form swearing he meets the requirements to be POTUS.

IIRC, his campaign etc posted that copy of his 'birth certificate' in response to the rumors/questions about his citizenship etc. In accordance with their original intent, I don't find it unreasonable that they could be asked to post a copy of the original.



You mis-state the concern/questions of many of the "birthers". Most do not deny the certificate published is a true copy. Their questions revolve around the nature of the original BC. At that time (1961), and even today, Hawaii offers several different types of BCs. Many 'birthers' question which type Obama was issued. Now, depending upon which type he has more questions may be generated. But to claim they'd simply call the original a fake is to unfairly terminate an argument/debate before it begins by placing words in your opponent's mouth.

It's pretty obvious the normal thing would just be to publish the original and put a stop to all the speculation. For some reason Obama doesn't want to do that. Perhaps he, and his supporters, like the idea of "birthers" and perpetuate them as convenient sources of ridicule. Or maybe he doesn't have the straight-up 'normal' BC and and a sh!t-storm would ensue. None of us know.

But yeah, if he has the 'normal' BC he has plenty to gain by posting it. It would be more one step toward reducing the ranks of "birthers" and making those left look even more ridiculous.

Fern

What would the "nature of the original birth certificate" have to do with the legitimacy of his presidency?

 

[GarfieldtheCat]

You're cheap. $1000 for non family.

I haven't been following this so be lenient on my ignorance. Or not.

Has it been verified by someone trustworthy( for both parties)? And, more simply, why not just post the real thing somewhere for viewing. Seems like a lot of effort to keep the pot stirred on both sides when it could be put to rest without legislation or law suits.

Sigh.

Yes, his birth certificate was verified by the Hawaiian Dept of Health, as well as the (repub) governor. Obama also showed a certified copy of said birth certificate. I guess that isn't good enough for some idiots.

 

[GarfieldtheCat]

The one thing I wonder is why Obama doesn't just show his damn birth certificate(not the live birth one) so he can quiet all these wackos up. Just show the certificate! Its simple.

You are so full of shit. He did produce a certified copy. When I got my passport, I showed my certified copy of my BC, and no one claimed I was born in Kenya.

And Hawaiian officials saw the original, and stated it was real and legit. Is that still not good for you.

On a tangent, to show the idiocy of your statement: I say you a drug user. Please submit proof that you are not. (hint: you can't, you can't prove a negative)

 

[Linflas]

I have no reason to doubt that he was born in Hawaii and I am not implying that I believe this but I have read speculation that perhaps the reason he has not released a complete public copy (if in fact he has not, I have not really followed the "birther" thing) is because his mother may have put down Muslim as his religion. Even if that is true I can't imagine anyone but the most extreme fringes would read anything into it since a newborn baby has nothing to do with what is written on a birth certificate. The whole thing seems silly to me and I really don't blame Hawaii for deciding to limit the requests.

 

[marvdmartian]

After all, has it not been said, the definition of insanity is trying the same thing over and over and over again, and expecting to get a different outcome if they try it one more time.

You mean, like people arguing political viewpoints in the Anandtech P&N forum??


Don't know about anywhere else, but my "home" state of NY charged $10 last time I needed a copy of my birth certificate. Might have been just the notary cost, though (don't know, since my mom got it for me while I was in Guam).

 

[Jhhnn]

I do not believe there are any requirements under the law, other than his signature on the FEC form swearing he meets the requirements to be POTUS.

IIRC, his campaign etc posted that copy of his 'birth certificate' in response to the rumors/questions about his citizenship etc. In accordance with their original intent, I don't find it unreasonable that they could be asked to post a copy of the original.



You mis-state the concern/questions of many of the "birthers". Most do not deny the certificate published is a true copy. Their questions revolve around the nature of the original BC. At that time (1961), and even today, Hawaii offers several different types of BCs. Many 'birthers' question which type Obama was issued. Now, depending upon which type he has more questions may be generated. But to claim they'd simply call the original a fake is to unfairly terminate an argument/debate before it begins by placing words in your opponent's mouth.

It's pretty obvious the normal thing would just be to publish the original and put a stop to all the speculation. For some reason Obama doesn't want to do that. Perhaps he, and his supporters, like the idea of "birthers" and perpetuate them as convenient sources of ridicule. Or maybe he doesn't have the straight-up 'normal' BC and and a sh!t-storm would ensue. None of us know.

But yeah, if he has the 'normal' BC he has plenty to gain by posting it. It would be more one step toward reducing the ranks of "birthers" and making those left look even more ridiculous.

Fern

You lend credibility to delusionists, Fern. Nothing will satisfy the Birthers, ever. Many of them would find it impossible to provide more proof than Obama has already done wrt their own births.

Short form, long form, original, yada yada yada. Perhaps the ultimate answer is for Hawaiian authorities to treat return form letters with a highly potent and long lasting anti-psychotic drug that can be absorbed through the skin...