My mother found out that she was born on a ship that was arriving the next day in the USA. My grandparents, already legal US citizens went to their local hospital in Chicago and they put her birth as local so that there would be less of a hassle later.
It does happen, but I do believe he is a natural citizen of the US.
It does happen, but I do believe he is a natural citizen of the US.
jonks
Lifer
- Feb 7, 2005
- 13,918
- 20
- 81
Those conservative whackjob freaks at the National Review weigh in. Their take?
Conspiracy theorists are whackjob freaks and Obama was born in the USA.
They also address Fern's oft cited claim that the media and FactCheck didn't really investigate this story correctly and are missing the boat because the birth certificate issued isn't the real birth certificate.
http://article.nationalreview....IwOTU4YWVjNzRmODE2NTI=
Conspiracy theorists are whackjob freaks and Obama was born in the USA.
They also address Fern's oft cited claim that the media and FactCheck didn't really investigate this story correctly and are missing the boat because the birth certificate issued isn't the real birth certificate.
http://article.nationalreview....IwOTU4YWVjNzRmODE2NTI=
I Agree...The Media, I don't think so. You can thank Lou Dobbs and the so called "liberul media" for keeping this front and center. Last week thats all Dobbs could talk about on his CNN news show and his radio show.
As we all know, Cable news is reality tv. Dobbs, Hannity, Beck, O' Reilly and their ilk...all of these people are aware of what they're doing. No doubt their lawyers have instructed them on just how far they can go. All of them, phonies "sticking up for the little guy", when they would never let any of these "little guys" in their living rooms. They could be actually doing something to help our nation. Their paychecks and prejudices got in the way. Notice, they'll dance up to a certain point and pull back, leaving the crazies to fill in the blanks. Its not news, its entertainment.
If I were Obama I wouldnt want the issue to go away. Because it makes his opponents look like the lunatics that they are front and center on reality news outlets that enable the crackpots. All the energy and bile they're putting into this total non-issue is energy and bile they're not putting into the real issues President Obama wants to address. It's a great distraction - let 'em churn!
I would surmise, the only thing that will satisfy the Birthers is proof that Obama was born a white man. I mean, really, who're you gonna believe, him or your lyin' eyes? They'd declare him a non-person if they could.
It has to do with the color of the man's skin, his exotic-sounding name, and the fact that he's a moderate Democrat rather than a mouth-foaming conservative. It's race, ethnicity, "The Other", and moderation. It has nothing to do with the facts of the matter.
Siddhartha
Lifer
- Oct 17, 1999
- 12,505
- 3
- 81
If the media did not cover this story, some people would be saying that the liberal MSM was suppressing the truth.
Has there ever been a birth certificate provided to the public? I for one don't really care about the issue but it seems to me the easiest way to PUT IT TO REST would be to provide documentation and shut the conspiracy theorists up......
jonks
Lifer
- Feb 7, 2005
- 13,918
- 20
- 81
Yes it has, and no, it wouldn't put it to rest. When they released the birth certificate birthers called it a fake photoshopped copy. It was then verified by independent reporters and HI state officials, and birthers still aren't satisfied. There is nothing that will satisfy CTs, they merely adapt whatever they see so that it fits into their conspiracy.
They start with the premise that Obama was not born in HI. Given that, if they are shown a birth cert saying he was born there, it's prima facie falsified since they know he wasn't born there. You can't convince these people of anything, so Obama wisely has stopped trying. Plus, cynically, it makes the Reps look really bad to have these people in their party so why would BO want to shut them up?
Well, I think its time to tell Bill Posey who intruduced the Birther bill and the 10 "mainstream" Republicans who signed on that bill to stop aiding and abetting the lunitic fringe. Maybe the "association" wont be made.
Or maybe tell "mainstreamer" Jim Imhofe, who would rather legitimize than difuse the nonsense, saying "They have a point", the White House has not done a very good job of dispelling the concerns of these citizens". Maybe his fellow "mainsteam" GOPers could tell him to STFU instead of fanning the flames.
What would it take to satisfy the requirements of Posey's "birther" bill?. If a birth certificate with an official state seal wont do it, what will?. With the GOP numbers dwindling, they seem to think that integrity is a luxury they can't afford.
So one idiot of 218 Republican representatives in DC introduces legislation that has no hope of reaching the house floor and gets 6 other morons to sign on though they all seem to agree Obama meets such eligibility equals "mainstream" in your book?
kk
Why would Obama release it? He already satisfied under the law the requirements, and even if Hawaiian officials are lying or looking at a fake, he's already president, and it's assumed he's born here. So by releasing it he can open up another can of worms.
Not only that why help your opponents when you know the birthers hurt your opponents?
as long as he tries his best for the benefit of America, i don't mind if he was born on Mars.
this whole thing is just stupid.
this whole thing is just stupid.
In that case, are Obama's elder relatives in Kenya a bunch of liars when they claimed that Barack was born in Kenya?
Something doesn't smell kosher...
Something doesn't smell kosher...
There is no way to put it to rest because they will never be satisfied.
One of my neighbors says that the Hawaii certificate is not "real" because it's only a "Certificate of Live Birth" and not one with footprints on it. I pointed out that the hospital certificates with footprints are for baby books and not legal documents; that the legal document is what is filed with the state, she said she didn't trust the state.
It goes on and on. The bottom line is that these folks cannot accept the fact that Obama is the legitimately elected President of the US and nothing anyone could ever say or do will change their mind.
Certificate of Live Birth =/= Birth Certificate
Regardless, it doesn't matter. The State of Hawaii issued a Certificate of Live Birth which is saying the Birth Certificate exists and that he was born in Hawaii. I doubt there is some grand conspiracy that the Hawaiian State Department of Health is hiding something, but my point was that Obama actually releasing the original birth certificate will have a net negative political effect (for him). It's not in his interest to quell the birthers.
Here's the most important part (in the NRO article you linked to):
Absent With Out Leave {AWOL} does not describe Bush properly, Missing National Guard Service While Intoxicated {MNGSWI} would be better. prounced ming-swee.
edit; WTF am I still reacting to mentions of Bush????
- Jul 13, 2005
- 33,986
- 3,321
- 126
I was reading with interest another site and stumbled upon this...
Suppose that you were Obama?s mother and had given birth to him in Kenya. I do not believe that she did. In order to travel to Africa you had to get a Yellow Fever shot in those days, and it was a difficult and expensive trip. But one way to see how unlikely it was that she gave birth in Kenya is simply to imagine that she had given birth in Kenya and to put yourself in her shoes.
We know also from her high school friends that she was a popular girl and probably continued to have many friends throughout her life.
But apparently she told no one about one of the most interesting experiences of her life, which was that she went to Kenya when she was only 18 and gave birth in a hospital in Kenya. This would be a very unusual thing for an American woman to not do (to discuss an unusual hospital stay), and it (the hospital in Kenya and the trip to Kenya) would have been a good topic of discussion throughout her life. It would be hard to resist talking about giving birth in Kenya, and for that matter, it would be difficult to not discuss a trip to Kenya at all in 1961.
Yet no friends of Obama?s late mother have come forward saying ?I remember she told me about that trip, about the hospital, about how hot it was? or anything about such a trip. Yet, during the election, that fact would have been of interest, and surely one of them would have written a letter to an editor or called a newspaper to mention the fact that Obama?s mother had said she gave birth in Kenya. But no one did.
It is difficult to imagine that Obama?s mother never mentioned the trip to Kenya or the birth in Kenya to her friends.
For that matter, she did not mention it to her son. For surely if he had known that he was born in Kenya, he would have let that fact slip sometime when he was attending school in Hawaii, and if he did, one or more of his friends would recall that he did. But none of his friends have mentioned that ?he told me he was born in Kenya.? At least none of them have called a news conference or sent a letter to the editor.
So, we have at least one logical reason why it was unlikely that Obama?s mother gave birth in Kenya: She would have had to keep it secret for the rest of her life, and why would she do that. Did she think that her child would be elected president in 2008? Hardly.
There is also the absence of photographs of the infant Obama in Kenya or his mother in Kenya. To be sure, if Obama plotted to conceal his birth in Kenya, he might have been able over the years to destroy all the photographs. But how likely is it?
Then, the folks who claim that Obama was born in Kenya cannot show any official Kenyan documents to prove that he was born there or that his mother was in Kenya at the time of birth. This is explained by right wing blogs by the Kenyan government having sealed the files. But only right wing blogs and the ?news agency? WND claims that the Kenyan government sealed the files. There is no confirmation of this from any reliable media.
Finally, there is the report that the grandmother said that Obama was born in Kenya. I listened to that tape and it is not clear that she, or the translators, understood the question to which she answer ?yes.? And, if you listen to it, you will see that the person asking the questions never went on to ask confirming details, such as ?what was the name of the hospital??, ?Do you recall the name of the doctor??, ?How long had Obama?s parents been in Kenya before the birth?? All these things would tend to confirm the truth of the claim that Obama was born in Kenya and at least confirm that Obama?s grandmother understood the question, but they were not asked. Why not? Because for the purposes of this interview, the interviewer only needed a ?yes? and he did not need to be certain that the ?yes? was said by a woman who understood the question. (The claimed assertions by other relatives that he was born in Kenya are not on tape and are only provided by WND.)
The Web magazine Slate, a liberal publication to be sure, says this about the grandmother interview:
?None of that stopped Berg from stoking the conspiracy theorists. On Oct. 16, an Anabaptist minister named Ron McRae called Sarah Hussein Obama, the president-elect?s 86-year-old paternal step-grandmother, at her home in Kenya. Two translators were on the line when McRae asked if the elder Obama was ?present? when the president-elect was born. One of the translators says ?yes.? McRae contacted Berg and gave him a partial transcript of the call with a signed affidavit. He opted not to include the rest of the call, in which he asks the question more directly??Was he born in Mombassa???and the translators, finally understanding him, tell him repeatedly that the president-elect was born in Hawaii.?
Getting back to the assertion that the Obama birth document that has been posted was forged. I have already disproved the claim that the FACTS that the document states are not true. As I said, the officials in Hawaii plus the illogic of having a Kenya birth document in the Hawaii files disprove the claim that the information on the document is not true. As to the document being forged, it is hard to see why that would occur if the facts on the document are true. Also, the officials in Hawaii were sent images of Obama?s birth document by both FactCheck and Polifact, and they confirmed that the document is authentic.
Yet some still believe it is forged. This fellow from Hawaii has an answer for that:
A posting from Andrew Walden, publisher of the Hawaii Free Press, a right-wing blog based in Hawaii.
http://www.hawaiifreepress.com...ma-Born-in-Hawaii.aspx
Barack Obama: Born in Hawai`i
by Andrew Walden
It is time to focus on REAL issues, not imaginary ones.
A fairly impressive internet industry has sprung up claiming that Obama was born in either Kenya or Indonesia. This is nonsense, which distracts from the broadly unexplored story of Obama?s upbringing. This kind of nonsense has emerged because the McCain campaign chose not to raise the many questions about Barack Obama?s numerous hard-left alliances. Barack Obama was born in Hawai`i, August 4, 1961 at Kapiolani Medical Center in Honolulu.
Obama?s birth certificate posted online is exactly the same birth certificate everybody in Hawai`i gets from the State Department of Health. It is not forged. There is nothing unusual about the design or the texture. In addition to the birth certificate, the August 13, 1961 Honolulu Advertiser also carries an announcement of Obama?s birth. The Honolulu Star-Bulletin also carries the same announcement. Both papers require submission of a copy of the birth certificate to print a birth announcement.
End Quote
Re: ?Will Obama?s birth certificate be produced to silence the growing outrage, or will the media and the courts conspire to quash what should be front-line news every day until the question is resolved??
To repeat, Hawaii issues only the Certification of Live Birth these days. It is accepted as proof of birth in the USA by the US State Department.
How do I know that? From this e-mail from the Department of Health in Hawaii:
Quotes
It is possible that we have records with more information but we issue only certified computer-generated certificates with certain necessary information to confirm a birth. We are the only agency that issues certified birth records for Hawaii
Aloha,
(Name removed)
End Quote
Re: ?Now, most of us can produce our birth certificate for a driver?s license test, a job interview, or any number of causes, in a matter of minutes. Shouldn?t a candidate for the president be held to at least as high a standard as a teenager applying for permission to drive on American streets and highways??
As noted, the certification of live birth is the official document used to get a driver?s license, to show at a job interview, or to apply for a passport. Unless your family has retained the original birth certificate, you cannot get it from the Department of Health of Hawaii these days. But that?s okay, the certification of live birth is a legal document, and it proves birth in Hawaii.
Suppose that you were Obama?s mother and had given birth to him in Kenya. I do not believe that she did. In order to travel to Africa you had to get a Yellow Fever shot in those days, and it was a difficult and expensive trip. But one way to see how unlikely it was that she gave birth in Kenya is simply to imagine that she had given birth in Kenya and to put yourself in her shoes.
We know also from her high school friends that she was a popular girl and probably continued to have many friends throughout her life.
But apparently she told no one about one of the most interesting experiences of her life, which was that she went to Kenya when she was only 18 and gave birth in a hospital in Kenya. This would be a very unusual thing for an American woman to not do (to discuss an unusual hospital stay), and it (the hospital in Kenya and the trip to Kenya) would have been a good topic of discussion throughout her life. It would be hard to resist talking about giving birth in Kenya, and for that matter, it would be difficult to not discuss a trip to Kenya at all in 1961.
Yet no friends of Obama?s late mother have come forward saying ?I remember she told me about that trip, about the hospital, about how hot it was? or anything about such a trip. Yet, during the election, that fact would have been of interest, and surely one of them would have written a letter to an editor or called a newspaper to mention the fact that Obama?s mother had said she gave birth in Kenya. But no one did.
It is difficult to imagine that Obama?s mother never mentioned the trip to Kenya or the birth in Kenya to her friends.
For that matter, she did not mention it to her son. For surely if he had known that he was born in Kenya, he would have let that fact slip sometime when he was attending school in Hawaii, and if he did, one or more of his friends would recall that he did. But none of his friends have mentioned that ?he told me he was born in Kenya.? At least none of them have called a news conference or sent a letter to the editor.
So, we have at least one logical reason why it was unlikely that Obama?s mother gave birth in Kenya: She would have had to keep it secret for the rest of her life, and why would she do that. Did she think that her child would be elected president in 2008? Hardly.
There is also the absence of photographs of the infant Obama in Kenya or his mother in Kenya. To be sure, if Obama plotted to conceal his birth in Kenya, he might have been able over the years to destroy all the photographs. But how likely is it?
Then, the folks who claim that Obama was born in Kenya cannot show any official Kenyan documents to prove that he was born there or that his mother was in Kenya at the time of birth. This is explained by right wing blogs by the Kenyan government having sealed the files. But only right wing blogs and the ?news agency? WND claims that the Kenyan government sealed the files. There is no confirmation of this from any reliable media.
Finally, there is the report that the grandmother said that Obama was born in Kenya. I listened to that tape and it is not clear that she, or the translators, understood the question to which she answer ?yes.? And, if you listen to it, you will see that the person asking the questions never went on to ask confirming details, such as ?what was the name of the hospital??, ?Do you recall the name of the doctor??, ?How long had Obama?s parents been in Kenya before the birth?? All these things would tend to confirm the truth of the claim that Obama was born in Kenya and at least confirm that Obama?s grandmother understood the question, but they were not asked. Why not? Because for the purposes of this interview, the interviewer only needed a ?yes? and he did not need to be certain that the ?yes? was said by a woman who understood the question. (The claimed assertions by other relatives that he was born in Kenya are not on tape and are only provided by WND.)
The Web magazine Slate, a liberal publication to be sure, says this about the grandmother interview:
?None of that stopped Berg from stoking the conspiracy theorists. On Oct. 16, an Anabaptist minister named Ron McRae called Sarah Hussein Obama, the president-elect?s 86-year-old paternal step-grandmother, at her home in Kenya. Two translators were on the line when McRae asked if the elder Obama was ?present? when the president-elect was born. One of the translators says ?yes.? McRae contacted Berg and gave him a partial transcript of the call with a signed affidavit. He opted not to include the rest of the call, in which he asks the question more directly??Was he born in Mombassa???and the translators, finally understanding him, tell him repeatedly that the president-elect was born in Hawaii.?
Getting back to the assertion that the Obama birth document that has been posted was forged. I have already disproved the claim that the FACTS that the document states are not true. As I said, the officials in Hawaii plus the illogic of having a Kenya birth document in the Hawaii files disprove the claim that the information on the document is not true. As to the document being forged, it is hard to see why that would occur if the facts on the document are true. Also, the officials in Hawaii were sent images of Obama?s birth document by both FactCheck and Polifact, and they confirmed that the document is authentic.
Yet some still believe it is forged. This fellow from Hawaii has an answer for that:
A posting from Andrew Walden, publisher of the Hawaii Free Press, a right-wing blog based in Hawaii.
http://www.hawaiifreepress.com...ma-Born-in-Hawaii.aspx
Barack Obama: Born in Hawai`i
by Andrew Walden
It is time to focus on REAL issues, not imaginary ones.
A fairly impressive internet industry has sprung up claiming that Obama was born in either Kenya or Indonesia. This is nonsense, which distracts from the broadly unexplored story of Obama?s upbringing. This kind of nonsense has emerged because the McCain campaign chose not to raise the many questions about Barack Obama?s numerous hard-left alliances. Barack Obama was born in Hawai`i, August 4, 1961 at Kapiolani Medical Center in Honolulu.
Obama?s birth certificate posted online is exactly the same birth certificate everybody in Hawai`i gets from the State Department of Health. It is not forged. There is nothing unusual about the design or the texture. In addition to the birth certificate, the August 13, 1961 Honolulu Advertiser also carries an announcement of Obama?s birth. The Honolulu Star-Bulletin also carries the same announcement. Both papers require submission of a copy of the birth certificate to print a birth announcement.
End Quote
Re: ?Will Obama?s birth certificate be produced to silence the growing outrage, or will the media and the courts conspire to quash what should be front-line news every day until the question is resolved??
To repeat, Hawaii issues only the Certification of Live Birth these days. It is accepted as proof of birth in the USA by the US State Department.
How do I know that? From this e-mail from the Department of Health in Hawaii:
Quotes
It is possible that we have records with more information but we issue only certified computer-generated certificates with certain necessary information to confirm a birth. We are the only agency that issues certified birth records for Hawaii
Aloha,
(Name removed)
End Quote
Re: ?Now, most of us can produce our birth certificate for a driver?s license test, a job interview, or any number of causes, in a matter of minutes. Shouldn?t a candidate for the president be held to at least as high a standard as a teenager applying for permission to drive on American streets and highways??
As noted, the certification of live birth is the official document used to get a driver?s license, to show at a job interview, or to apply for a passport. Unless your family has retained the original birth certificate, you cannot get it from the Department of Health of Hawaii these days. But that?s okay, the certification of live birth is a legal document, and it proves birth in Hawaii.
The explantion on why its clear Obama's family in Kenya never actually claimed he was born in Kenya has been covered in this thread in the post above yours.
Contrary to some false claims, the Certificate of Live Birth would say Kenya and definitely not Honolulu, Hawaii if that was where they were told he was born. A Hawain Certificate of Live Birth is a legally valid birth certificate which can be used to prove citizenship in a wide array of situations, and Hawaiian officials are not going to agree to claim someone was born in the US unless they have evidence supporting the assertion.
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