Having a hard time getting into RPG games.

[fuzzybabybunny]

I'm currently trying to play Fallout 3. It's very Oblivion-ish, but it just feels kind of empty to me. The characters don't have much "character!" I'd love it if a game could combine the awesome facial expressions and body language from Valve, either Valve or BioWare's voice acting and storytelling, Valve's physics, Bethesda's massive environments that you can literally live in, and the lush dynamic environmental graphics of Crytek. But mostly the voice acting, facial expressions, and body language. It's hard to identify with these characters in Fallout because they just seem so robotic. I remember feeling real emotions towards the characters in Half Life because they seemed like actual people that could articulate their emotions through sound, body language, and facial expressions. I had somewhat of the same feeling for the characters in Mass Effect because of the terrific voice acting, epic storyline, and ok facial expressions. But Fallout? Ehhh....

Anyone else feel the same way?

 

[GaryJohnson]

My main complaint with all of Bethesda's games is that they have really crummy character animations. Are they even using mocap? It like they're using the stock skeleton animations in 3DSmax.

 

[alcoholbob]

Bethesda has gone towards pick-up-and-play since Oblivion which is more console-friendly ("turn it on and it works").

To me Bethesda is basically a first-person Diablo--a 3D platformer with an occasional conversation that results essentially in "yes/no" choices.

Originally posted by: GaryJohnson
My main complaint with all of Bethesda's games is that they have really crummy character animations. Are they even using mocap? It like they're using the stock skeleton animations in 3DSmax.

Surpassed only by Obsidian.

 

[GaryJohnson]

In KotOR2 and NWN2 I think Obsidian basically reused the BioWare animations from KotOR and NWN. Those animations were definately better than those of Morrowind, Oblivion, & Fallout 3.

 

[zerocool84]

Don't worry FBB, I disliked Fallout 3 very much as well. It was extremely slow paced, story sucked, characters sucked, lvl cap sucked, buggy as hell, there was a lot wrong with it. The wasteland was very boring as well. There was not much to do. I understand it's supposed to be a wasteland but it's a game. Make it fun. The lvl cap really made it crappy cus it gives you very little incentive to keep killing things and then wehn you reach lvl 20 everything is too easy to kill. I enjoyed Mass Effect much more. It was buggy as well but the story/voiceacting made me care about the characters.

 

[alcoholbob]

They also reused the engine and made virtually no attempt to reduce clipping or occlusion culling--I hit down to 18fps on static scenery scenes with SLI GTX285s...and this is a 2001 engine...If it wasn't for the fact that it was a D&D game I wouldn't touch it with a 10ft pole.

 

[GaryJohnson]

That kinda indicates some other problem I think Astral, the game runs fine on my single GTX260.

 

[dighn]

Fallout 3 is an open-ended "action RPG". It's not really in the same category as a traditional plot-heavy game like Mass Effect. Actually even Mass Effect leans towards the action side, though still manages to be a good RPG. Fallout 3 has good game play and atmosphere, but in terms of plot/characters/music it really is quite uninteresting. It's just different focuses.

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

Originally posted by: dighn
Fallout 3 is an open-ended "action RPG". It's not really in the same category as a traditional plot-heavy game like Mass Effect. Actually even Mass Effect leans towards the action side, though still manages to be a good RPG. Fallout 3 has good game play and atmosphere, but in terms of plot/characters/music it really is quite flat.

I don't really think that action, storytelling, and developing bonds with characters have to be mutually exclusive.

Half Life: AWESOME characters. I mean, how can you NOT like Barney, the two doctors, and Alyx? They could laugh, they could cry, they could grimace, they could convey love, etc. And yet the action was awesome as well, obviously. So you've got the human emotional side and the action side covered, leading to a very satisfying game.

Mass Effect: Epic story with great canon and development of this previously unknown universe. Action was good, character development was good, story and RPG was good, so overall a very satisfying game as well.

Then there's Bethesda. Huge environments that you could really live in - you can own things, make objects, buy houses, live in them, travel around a huge map, good action. But the characters are all so dead. You've got this whole world and yet it's lonely. I remember the only thing that kept me playing Oblivion was the fact that I could often just go to an overlook and admire the amazing expansive scenery as the sun went down with gentle music in the background. Very soothing. Fallout's just ugly. I feel like Bethesda games are too materialistic - there's a lot of STUFF, but the human side of things doesn't get conveyed well enough, leading to something less than satisfying.

 

[dighn]

Originally posted by: fuzzybabybunny
I don't really think that action, storytelling, and developing bonds with characters have to be mutually exclusive.

Half Life: AWESOME characters. I mean, how can you NOT like Barney, the two doctors, and Alyx? They could laugh, they could cry, they could grimace, they could convey love, etc. And yet the action was awesome as well, obviously. So you've got the human emotional side and the action side covered, leading to a very satisfying game.

Mass Effect: Epic story with great canon and development of this previously unknown universe. Action was good, character development was good, story and RPG was good, so overall a very satisfying game as well.

Then there's Bethesda. Huge environments that you could really live in - you can own things, make objects, buy houses, live in them, travel around a huge map, good action. But the characters are all so dead. You've got this whole world and yet it's lonely. I remember the only thing that kept me playing Oblivion was the fact that I could often just go to an overlook and admire the amazing expansive scenery as the sun went down with gentle music in the background. Very soothing. Fallout's just ugly.

I'm not saying they have to be mutually exclusive. It's just an observation based on what I see from the "action RPG" genre. Storytelling and plot-level immersion are typically not their focuses. Bethesda games are especially guilty at this. I think the main reason is that they want to create open worlds. An open game world limits the amount and quality of scripted events and interactions between them because of complexity. It's infeasible to implement substantial storytelling in an open way. Games with good storytelling are generally very linear (some seem open-ended but are really not).

 

[Pelu]

I also need something... that isnt from bethesda, nor D&D and nor Mass Effect... i think nothing exist at all... Overlord is too short and shallow... only good to control minions...

 

[dighn]

Originally posted by: Pelu
I also need something... that isnt from bethesda, nor D&D and nor Mass Effect... i think nothing exist at all... Overlord is too short and shallow... only good to control minions...

there are the classics, deus ex, KOTOR, vampire masquerade. but I suspect you've heard of or even played them. the other alternatives are JRPGs, but they are not for everyone.

 

[s44]

Four months to Dragon Age.

 

[Jumpem]

Dungeon Siege was my favorite single player RPG.

 

[gorcorps]

Meh, maybe you just don't like the standard RPG. IMO Mass Effect wasn't a normal RPG so it's not surprising you don't like a lot of others. I like Fallout 3 enough (but I haven't played in very long) but Mass Effect was a spectacular game that I have yet to find a match for anywhere else. KOTOR was great but I think the graphics and age may bring it down a bit now. We juts have to wait patiently for the sequel *snorgle*

 

[brblx]

Originally posted by: fuzzybabybunny

Originally posted by: dighn
Fallout 3 is an open-ended "action RPG". It's not really in the same category as a traditional plot-heavy game like Mass Effect. Actually even Mass Effect leans towards the action side, though still manages to be a good RPG. Fallout 3 has good game play and atmosphere, but in terms of plot/characters/music it really is quite flat.

I don't really think that action, storytelling, and developing bonds with characters have to be mutually exclusive.

Half Life: AWESOME characters. I mean, how can you NOT like Barney, the two doctors, and Alyx? They could laugh, they could cry, they could grimace, they could convey love, etc. And yet the action was awesome as well, obviously. So you've got the human emotional side and the action side covered, leading to a very satisfying game.

Mass Effect: Epic story with great canon and development of this previously unknown universe. Action was good, character development was good, story and RPG was good, so overall a very satisfying game as well.

Then there's Bethesda. Huge environments that you could really live in - you can own things, make objects, buy houses, live in them, travel around a huge map, good action. But the characters are all so dead. You've got this whole world and yet it's lonely. I remember the only thing that kept me playing Oblivion was the fact that I could often just go to an overlook and admire the amazing expansive scenery as the sun went down with gentle music in the background. Very soothing. Fallout's just ugly. I feel like Bethesda games are too materialistic - there's a lot of STUFF, but the human side of things doesn't get conveyed well enough, leading to something less than satisfying.

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i feel the exact same way about mass effect and oblivion/fallout 3.

and half-life 2's facial animations (from FIVE years ago) have still not been remotely equaled by any other dev.