Have You Gotten Your Covid Vaccine? Thread.

[PingSpike]

We're seeing a little of this but mostly our former employees have left the industry, moved, or are working elsewhere/gone back to school and don't wish to return. Being laid off for most of a year seems also to have made lots people rethink what they want in their lives and for a lot to them the answer is often not more years in the service industry.

If you work with the public you have to interact with anti mask morons trying to give you covid, probably before you even completed your vaccination.

My state keeps putting out a press release complaining that the 18-29 age group is behind on vaccinations, shaming them. They were the dead last group to become eligible (they literally created a 16-18 group at the last second and put high school kids ahead of them) and if they are out of state college kids only some of them became eligible at all in the last week. These are the people that by and large work a lot of the jobs employers say they can't fill and they're now being hit with the unemployment removal stick before they even had a chance to eat the vaccine carrot.

 

[weblooker2021]

Yeah and I am not a HR expert.
I believe in Massachusetts the way it *could* work is the employer says “no more remote work office is open” then says without being vaccinated you cannot enter the office. Manager will verify your vaccination card we don’t want a copy.
Don’t get vaccinated you are absent.

I read last year a lot of these laws & rules go back to the 1918 pandemic and small pox. Not vaccinated = no entry.

While I doubt we as a State will need to go down that road because it appears enough people are willing to be vaccinated to achieve herd immunity.

What if it's against my religious believe? It's likely that it would be illegal to fire someone for that reason.

 

[fskimospy]

What if it's against my religious believe? It's likely that it would be illegal to fire someone for that reason.

Uhmmm, no. Health care workers can and have been fired for refusing to take the flu vaccine, despite citing religious grounds for refusing. Considering COVID is much more dangerous than the flu the case would be even stronger.

 

[abj13]

It will be hilarious in the coming months to see the the logical knots people will try to justify non-compliance with vaccination rules. In 1990, Justice Scalia wrote this as the majority opinion (references removed for readability) in Employment Div. v. Smith:

"The rule respondents favor would open the prospect of constitutionally required religious exemptions from civic obligations of almost every conceivable kind -- ranging from compulsory military service, to the payment of taxes, to health and safety regulation such as manslaughter and child neglect laws, compulsory vaccination laws, drug laws and traffic laws; to social welfare legislation such as minimum wage laws, child labor laws, animal cruelty laws, environmental protection laws, and laws providing for equality of opportunity for the races. The First Amendment's protection of religious liberty does not require this."

The only aspect holding back many major organizations is waiting for the full FDA approval, which Pfizer just submitted for. The differences between the EUA and full FDA approval are small from a medical standpoint, but are, in theory, significant from a legal aspect. Its just been never formally tested in the courts. Rather than being a legal guinea pig, most places are continuing with masking and social distancing rules pending the approval.

 

[VashHT]

I am sorry but my body my choice is a personal choice.

Nah, stops being your body your choice when you're putting other people at risk of infection because they're forced to work with you.

 

[SteveGrabowski]

I am sorry but my body my choice is a personal choice.

You're not sorry for being a piece of shit, why apologize?

 

[fskimospy]

It will be hilarious in the coming months to see the the logical knots people will try to justify non-compliance with vaccination rules. In 1990, Justice Scalia wrote this as the majority opinion (references removed for readability) in Employment Div. v. Smith:

"The rule respondents favor would open the prospect of constitutionally required religious exemptions from civic obligations of almost every conceivable kind -- ranging from compulsory military service, to the payment of taxes, to health and safety regulation such as manslaughter and child neglect laws, compulsory vaccination laws, drug laws and traffic laws; to social welfare legislation such as minimum wage laws, child labor laws, animal cruelty laws, environmental protection laws, and laws providing for equality of opportunity for the races. The First Amendment's protection of religious liberty does not require this."

The only aspect holding back many major organizations is waiting for the full FDA approval, which Pfizer just submitted for. The differences between the EUA and full FDA approval are small from a medical standpoint, but are, in theory, significant from a legal aspect. Its just been never formally tested in the courts. Rather than being a legal guinea pig, most places are continuing with masking and social distancing rules pending the approval.

I have to say the Supreme Court has moved far away from that decision, for the most part their jurisprudence now is that following laws is optional for religious people. (I really don’t think this is too huge an exaggeration)

That being said, even considering how they bend over backwards to exempt the religious from the law it would be hard for me to imagine they would want to enshrine an affirmative right to not be fired for endangering your coworkers if you cite a religious reason for it.

 

[weblooker2021]

Nah, stops being your body your choice when you're putting other people at risk of infection because they're forced to work with you.

Will see what the court says if government tries to enforce mandatory vaccination which seems unlikely. The place i work at, already announced that no vaccination will be required.

 

[VW MAN]

What if it's against my religious believe? It's likely that it would be illegal to fire someone for that reason.

Dumbasses like you are against "my religion"! So when are you going to respect my beliefs and get the fuck out if my society? Because it appears that, according to you, it seems religious beliefs are supposed to take precedence, right?

 

[fskimospy]

Will see what the court says if government tries to enforce mandatory vaccination which seems unlikely. The place i work at, already announced that no vaccination will be required.

This is about businesses firing you for being irresponsible, not the government forcing you to be vaccinated.

Not that it matters much though as government can and have forced vaccinations in order to receive public services and as I’ve already stated workers have been fired for refusal to vaccinate. Neither has a religious exemption.

 

[fskimospy]

Dumbasses like you are against "my religion"! So when are you going to respect my beliefs and get the fuck out if my society? Because it appears that, according to you, it seems religious beliefs are supposed to take precedence, right?

If I’m not mistaken he has said his plan is to lie and claim a religious exemption despite not actually having one.

So not only is he stupid for being an anti-vaxxer, he’s a liar.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

What if it's against my religious believe? It's likely that it would be illegal to fire someone for that reason.

It is called "reasonable" accommodation. A handful company wide likely isn't a problem, dozens of people in a close work environment is not reasonable.
BTW they are getting fired for not showing up to work, not for being unvaccinated.
I am not a lawyer and I don't want to pretend to be one.

 

[Commodus]

Will see what the court says if government tries to enforce mandatory vaccination which seems unlikely. The place i work at, already announced that no vaccination will be required.

The government probably won't require vaccination in most cases, but don't be surprised if you have to if you want to rejoin society in practice. Travel? Probably mandatory. If you switch jobs, there's no guarantee your next employer will be so lenient. Want to go to a concert or convention? They might require proof of vaccination at the door. So you may theoretically be free, but you'll be a pariah in practice.

What's baffling is that vaccines, including the COVID-19 ones, are just so... non-controversial. It takes a heartbeat to get one, the side effects are almost always minimal, and the benefits far outweigh any potential drawbacks. You have to spend more energy trying to rationalize avoiding the vaccine (not that you can, since it's an inherently irrational decision) than you would just taking it and moving on with your life.

 

[weblooker2021]

The government probably won't require vaccination in most cases, but don't be surprised if you have to if you want to rejoin society in practice. Travel? Probably mandatory. If you switch jobs, there's no guarantee your next employer will be so lenient. Want to go to a concert or convention? They might require proof of vaccination at the door. So you may theoretically be free, but you'll be a pariah in practice.

What's baffling is that vaccines, including the COVID-19 ones, are just so... non-controversial. It takes a heartbeat to get one, the side effects are almost always minimal, and the benefits far outweigh any potential drawbacks. You have to spend more energy trying to rationalize avoiding the vaccine (not that you can, since it's an inherently irrational decision) than you would just taking it and moving on with your life.

NO problem, i just printed my Covid-19 card using pdf that i got from Tennessee website. There goes the checking of of vaccination at the door.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

BTW I cannot think of a major religion that doesn’t support vaccination.

 

[fskimospy]

NO problem, i just printed my Covid-19 card using pdf that i got from Tennessee website. There goes the checking of of vaccination at the door.

Just so you know that’s a crime. Hopefully someone will catch it and report you so you can get what’s coming to you.

Internet Crime Complaint Center (IC3) | If You Make or Buy a Fake COVID-19 Vaccination Record Card, You Endanger Yourself and Those Around You, and You Are Breaking the Law

www.ic3.gov

 

[weblooker2021]

BTW I cannot think of a major religion that doesn’t support vaccination.

Church of Christ, Scientist

 

[weblooker2021]

Just so you know that’s a crime. Hopefully someone will catch it and report you so you can get what’s coming to you.

Internet Crime Complaint Center (IC3) | If You Make or Buy a Fake COVID-19 Vaccination Record Card, You Endanger Yourself and Those Around You, and You Are Breaking the Law

www.ic3.gov

Have you seen the one that is given out? It's printed on same paper as one can print at home. Just because government claims it's illegal do not make it illegal.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

NO problem, i just printed my Covid-19 card using pdf that i got from Tennessee website. There goes the checking of of vaccination at the door.

I would love to fire someone for presenting a false document (the fake vaccination card) it would rate up there with:

Being fired for pushing a keyboard thru a wall because they were angry

Being fired for fucking around with someone’s food order. Calling the place and impersonate the guy you hate and ask for extra, extra, extra hots. When you think you’ve added too many double that amount and it should be right.

Yes I have fired people for the above behavior. Well technically not the hots guy I got him on something else however it was possible to fire him for that. He was poison to the workplace.

 

[fskimospy]

Have you seen the one that is given out? It's printed on same paper as one can print at home. Just because government claims it's illegal do not make it illegal.

This is a pretty straightforward violation of the statute named in the warning and is punishable by up to five years in prison.

I’m sure the FBI and the justice system will be very receptive to your ‘just because you say it’s illegal doesn’t make it so!’ argument, hahaha.

 

[VashHT]

Church of Christ, Scientist

So are you a christian scientist (lord what an oxymoron) or do you lie about that too?

 

[Brainonska511]

This is a pretty straightforward violation of the statute named in the warning and is punishable by up to five years in prison.

I’m sure the FBI and the justice system will be very receptive to your ‘just because you say it’s illegal doesn’t make it so!’ argument, hahaha.

Perhaps he went to Hollywood Upstairs Law School like another member of this forum.

 

[VashHT]

This is a pretty straightforward violation of the statute named in the warning and is punishable by up to five years in prison.

I’m sure the FBI and the justice system will be very receptive to your ‘just because you say it’s illegal doesn’t make it so!’ argument, hahaha.

Not to mention the card is filled out by pharmacists with date/dose info, I guess you could make that up too but I'm pretty sure it's not legal to pose as a doctor like that.

 

[fskimospy]

Perhaps he went to Hollywood Upstairs Law School like another member of this forum.

I mean it doesn’t get much simpler than this and I’m no lawyer. You can’t fraudulently use government seals. A vaccine card has a seal on it, and a fake one used to deceive people into thinking you are vaccinated is pretty clearly fraudulent.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Church of Christ, Scientist

Major, how many followers have you met in real life?

BTW appears they aren’t so against vaccination as you may think

A Christian Science perspective on vaccination and public health

www.christianscience.com