Have you ever flip-flopped?

[Stunt]

I know this isnt something that many will brag about but...i think it could lead to interesting discussion.
I also added a little poll for personal interest.

I am talking major political view shift.
Examples of what changed...and if you want...the person who opened your eyes

 

[spidey07]

yes.

when I was young I was very liberal (late teens, early 20s)

then I grew up and learned how the real world works and that most times ideal is not achievable, compromises have to be made. I quickly started shifting over to the right, especially seeing 40K of my money going to taxes. I started shifting even more.

 

[Tab]

Used to rather conservative. Then I took goverment, I tried agrueeing my point (GWB is a good leader) but I found it was rather extremely difficult. Then it got even more difficult as we had no WMDs....

George Bush made me change my mind...

 

[Riprorin]

My conservative views have been strengthened since coming here.

 

[SuperTool]

Yes. I was for relaxing House ethics rules, before I was against it.
-Tom DeLay

 

[Czar]

Have you ever changed a major politcal view?
Yes, expecialy about gun control

Have you ever changed a major political view b/c of P&N?
without p&n, or off topic at the time I wouldnt have changed my mind on gun control

Which direction were you pushed?
Right, conserning gun control
Generaly on other issues I have been pushed towards center

Do you feel your opinions change hearing extreme views?
No!!! they are nothing but anoying dribble, from all sides. If you cant make a reasonable argument and are willing to consider what other people have to say then dont bother posting!!:|

Which direction are you pushed?
as far away from extremism as possible, before I thought some things were black and white, at least in general, but because of those extremists we have on the forum I have learned that everything is gray, there is not a single thing that is concrete, it all depends from person to person

 

[Pliablemoose]

Gay marriage, I went left, but not because of AT...

 

[Rainsford]

Yes.

When I was younger (in high school), I was pretty conservative on both social and economic issues.

Since I started college, I've become more socially liberal due to exposure to new and different people and ideas. As a result, I've become more open to different ideas and different people. I've also become more economically conservative due to exposure to many economics classes and the realization that liberal economics don't make a lot of sense to me. As far as college brainwashing you to be liberal, I haven't noticed much of that.

Also, extremist Christian conservatives have pushed me away from many conservative ideas. I also have to credit many of the conservatives on P&N with pushing me away from your viewpoints. I would not consider myself a liberal (the Berkeley kind), but I don't want to be associated with many of the conservatives out there.

 

[Mookow]

I went from the average "conservative Christian" (and by that I mean average in how it exists, not the average portrayed by the media, which is far more religious and farther right wing) in early high school to becoming a Libertarian in college.

I see it sort of like what happens after you finish preschool and move through your grade school. Not everything they taught you was right (many of the social stances of the Republican Party), but on the other hand, they were definitely correct when they told you to not pee on yourself (the economic policy of the Democrats)

ATOT and P&N have been a factor in me switching positions on a couple issues, some moving to the right, others to the left. I'd like it if you added "Libertarian" to the question "Which direction were you pushed?", because that is a much better answer in my case.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: Tabb
Used to rather conservative. Then I took goverment, I tried agrueeing my point (GWB is a good leader) but I found it was rather extremely difficult. Then it got even more difficult as we had no WMDs....

George Bush made me change my mind...

This is me to, in both econ and gov, both with repiblican teachers, with republican classes.

Originally posted by: Rainsford
Also, extremist Christian conservatives have pushed me away from many conservative ideas. I also have to credit many of the conservatives on P&N with pushing me away from your viewpoints. I would not consider myself a liberal (the Berkeley kind), but I don't want to be associated with many of the conservatives out there.

this as well.

 

[raildogg]

lean slightly to the right :thumbsup:

 

[Tab]

From a economy perspective I don't really know where I stand... I am a strong propenent of welfare, the fact is some people don't have it all together. They do need a extra boost, you're only problem is. Who decides how much the boost is, and when is enough enough?

 

[raildogg]

was against Iraq war. then for it

 

[Train]

Good Poll,

The only major Issue I can think of is gun control, I used to be hard core for banning guns, then over the course of maybe 3 years, I figured out what a stupid idea gun control is, now I am very pro 2nd ammendment. I dont even own a gun. Even after being in a marine corps, where there are a lot of gun enthusiasts, I dont really feel the need to buy one, I've qualified with 4 different weapons (Beretta 9mm, M-16, 240-Golf and M203 Grenade Launcher) and have two current weapons cards for govt weapons, just dont feel the need to own one myself, dont see myself getting one in the future either.

I have moved around a lot on abortion, more so on the right side, and I think I may still have some right leaning tendencies in abortion related arguments, but I'm pretty close to center on that one right now.

Economically I've been to both extremes, but after a lot of thought Im back torward the center, right leaning, not that I'm pro conservative changes, I'd just rather NOT see the liberal agenda change us economically.

 

[Train]

"Do you feel your opinions change hearing extreme views? "

No, havent changed a stance, but actually solidified them by hearing extreme opposites, not the usual P&N extreme post (99% garbage) because I would just ignore it. But occasionally an extreme view is presented quite well and even though I dont agree with it, I can appreciate a good case. And a good case will help to put my own stance in perspective, often offering new viewpoints I hadnt though of before.

 

[BarneyFife]

I used to be more of a church goer but as I started getting older, I soured on church. Realized that it was just another business. I also used to be an ignorant rah rah patriot when I was younger but as I got older and traveled abroad plus with satellite tv and the internet, I've got differing views on not only my country but the world.

 

[judasmachine]

I think it's terribly stubborn and closed minded to have never changed your mind on major issues. We all explore other avenues, that is how you learn to form your own opinions, and not just puppet what others say. At least I hope we all explore other avenues.

On a more personal level, the two issues where I'm still a bit confused about where I really stand are guns, and abortion. I don't believe banning guns is the right idea, however gun nuts scare the crap out of me as much as being mugged by a gun wielding idiot. Abortion is obviously a more sensitive issue. To me personally I can't stand it, but I'm also not about to jump inbetween a woman and her personal freedom. I go back and forth on both issues. One thing I do believe in above all else is personal freedom, so that affects both issues and my opinions of them.

 

[HalosPuma]

I was disgusted with politics in general in the very late '90's and switched from Republican to Libertarian. The Party of ideals! The Party of small government! The Party of a utopian republic! The Party of honest money and banking! I voted for the Libertarian candidate in 2000 Harry Browne, not Bush.

Then, in mid-2003, after the Iraq war began (which I opposed on constitutional reasons - Congress did not offer an official declaration of war as stated they must do in Article 1, Sectioin 8) and I saw how my managed portfolio gained a lot due to the defense and oil investments, I signed back up with the Republicans and threw my support behind Bush. The very important lesson that I learned was that you can't beat them, so join them. Only a very few times in history have a people been able to fight the system and win. The vast majority of them died. I would rather be alive and rich than die for my beliefs.

 

[nageov3t]

when I was a kid (high school, early college), I was about as far left-wing as you can get. I led/moderated a weekly political panel in college, though, where we (me, a couple international students, and some poly sci teachers) would take questions and deate issues.

That forced me to really think about issues from all sides, which moderated my views a great deal. I couldn't begin to count the number of shouting matches I got into with some of the foreign students, especially when the Iraqi war began (which I supported at the time and still kinda support). but having your beliefs questioned is a good thing. there are way too many people who become set in their ways without ever questioning why they feel the way they do about issues and never trying to see from someone else's point of view.

Originally posted by: Czar
Have you ever changed a major politcal view?
Yes, expecialy about gun control

Have you ever changed a major political view b/c of P&N?
without p&n, or off topic at the time I wouldnt have changed my mind on gun control

Which direction were you pushed?
Right, conserning gun control

hey, me too growing up in an urban area where gang/gun violence has always been a part of the nightly local news, I'd always been anti-gun. during the course of a "discussion" on P&N, though, I read someone's view from the other side of the spectrum and was swayed by their argument.

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: judasmachine
I think it's terribly stubborn and closed minded to have never changed your mind on major issues. We all explore other avenues, that is how you learn to form your own opinions, and not just puppet what others say. At least I hope we all explore other avenues.

That's what i get out of P&N...a broad range of opinions...and i find them helpful in finding my own place in the world of politics.

I also have come to realize that there is no right and wrong but perhaps an unknown better way or comprimise.

I am turned off by the extremists as they do not speak on behalf of the nation and tend to think that they are never wrong. I do feel they are vital for discussion and help produce discussion. Im not trying to praise the views of Halos, Rip, Sleeperlot, or dmcowen but they all have changed my views (not the way they intend )

Anyways. Being from canada i find i am exposed to more left thinking people (especially socially) and find the American based (sorry internationals ) opinions far more broad and interesting.

Since joining P&N i have noticed i am centrist in the forums, but conservative back home. Also i find myself defending Bush when people bash him here...even though i am not a fan at alll of the guy.

Sometimes it is interesting to see things from a different perspective. I hope we are all getting this out of this forum

 

[datalink7]

Originally posted by: HalosPuma
I was disgusted with politics in general in the very late '90's and switched from Republican to Libertarian. The Party of ideals! The Party of small government! The Party of a utopian republic! The Party of honest money and banking! I voted for the Libertarian candidate in 2000 Harry Browne, not Bush.

Then, in mid-2003, after the Iraq war began (which I opposed on constitutional reasons - Congress did not offer an official declaration of war as stated they must do in Article 1, Sectioin 8) and I saw how my managed portfolio gained a lot due to the defense and oil investments, I signed back up with the Republicans and threw my support behind Bush. The very important lesson that I learned was that you can't beat them, so join them. Only a very few times in history have a people been able to fight the system and win. The vast majority of them died. I would rather be alive and rich than die for my beliefs.

Funny, I'm the opposite. I'd rather die for my beliefs.

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: datalink7

Originally posted by: HalosPuma
I was disgusted with politics in general in the very late '90's and switched from Republican to Libertarian. The Party of ideals! The Party of small government! The Party of a utopian republic! The Party of honest money and banking! I voted for the Libertarian candidate in 2000 Harry Browne, not Bush.

Then, in mid-2003, after the Iraq war began (which I opposed on constitutional reasons - Congress did not offer an official declaration of war as stated they must do in Article 1, Sectioin 8) and I saw how my managed portfolio gained a lot due to the defense and oil investments, I signed back up with the Republicans and threw my support behind Bush. The very important lesson that I learned was that you can't beat them, so join them. Only a very few times in history have a people been able to fight the system and win. The vast majority of them died. I would rather be alive and rich than die for my beliefs.

Funny, I'm the opposite. I'd rather die for my beliefs.

I agree.
as a side note. Halos you are a huge supporter of the neocon outlook and support war even for the sake of oil (i read your posts). How do you recruit a military without a draft willing to give their lives for their beliefs if this is not something they should be doing?

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: HalosPuma
I was disgusted with politics in general in the very late '90's and switched from Republican to Libertarian. The Party of ideals! The Party of small government! The Party of a utopian republic! The Party of honest money and banking! I voted for the Libertarian candidate in 2000 Harry Browne, not Bush.

Then, in mid-2003, after the Iraq war began (which I opposed on constitutional reasons - Congress did not offer an official declaration of war as stated they must do in Article 1, Sectioin 8) and I saw how my managed portfolio gained a lot due to the defense and oil investments, I signed back up with the Republicans and threw my support behind Bush. The very important lesson that I learned was that you can't beat them, so join them. Only a very few times in history have a people been able to fight the system and win. The vast majority of them died. I would rather be alive and rich than die for my beliefs.

Now that's just sad. As far as I can see, you are pretty much saying, "Well, at first I was disgusted with the status quo and joined a party that matched my beliefs. But that seemed like a lot of work, so I became a Republican instead." Seems like there is a bumper sticker in there somewhere.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: datalink7

Originally posted by: HalosPuma
I was disgusted with politics in general in the very late '90's and switched from Republican to Libertarian. The Party of ideals! The Party of small government! The Party of a utopian republic! The Party of honest money and banking! I voted for the Libertarian candidate in 2000 Harry Browne, not Bush.

Then, in mid-2003, after the Iraq war began (which I opposed on constitutional reasons - Congress did not offer an official declaration of war as stated they must do in Article 1, Sectioin 8) and I saw how my managed portfolio gained a lot due to the defense and oil investments, I signed back up with the Republicans and threw my support behind Bush. The very important lesson that I learned was that you can't beat them, so join them. Only a very few times in history have a people been able to fight the system and win. The vast majority of them died. I would rather be alive and rich than die for my beliefs.

Funny, I'm the opposite. I'd rather die for my beliefs.

I agree.
as a side note. Halos you are a huge supporter of the neocon outlook and support war even for the sake of oil (i read your posts). How do you recruit a military without a draft willing to give their lives for their beliefs if this is not something they should be doing?

After readying those posts as well, I have a hard time buying that Halos was EVER a libertarian, except maybe in name only because he thought it sounded cool. Libertarians are about freedom, both economic and personal. Halos seems to favor malicious interference, basically the same as hard core extremist liberals, but with a different agenda.

 

[jammur21]

I used to be more liberal, but am becoming more libertarian.

Voted Nader in 00. I didn't vote in 2004 (both douchebags)- but would vote for Powell or McCain in 08