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Have U.S. schools gotten any better than in this video?

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Yeah, that video is depressing, though It doesn't really address the parents. Probably that subject would have enough content for its own special. Nevertheless, it is sad that public schools are so piss poor. The administrations are a joke with BS and red tape, partly because they're not run by people with any business sense or proper goal orientation, and also because they're always having to cover their asses and battle with the unions.

That said, if I could make one minor, but immediate change in public schools, it would be enforcing a dress code. Notice how most of the better performing schools, such as private and charter, all had dress codes. Like I said, it's minor, but it does take away at least one distraction.
 
Originally posted by: ShotgunSteven
I do know that a friend's mother has said her grandkids will never go to public school. She is a teacher at a public high school, and has said if the kids don't go to a private school, she will retire and teach them herself.

I like the idea of attaching the money to the kids, so the parents can use it to send the child where they want to.
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thats wasting time. the best schools are already in the best housing districts. better schools can raise house prices alone pretty much in many areas. and these are public schools. many asian parents have downgraded home size to move to nicer school districts. supply/demand. attaching money to kids is like pretending everyone can afford the same house, especially if they all want the same one. plus its not that simple as i choose this school anyways. better housing districts have better tax/property tax revenues to fund the schools, and the parents with a stake in those schools will fund raise heavily. take those incentives out by just letting anyone in and you will see those prized students flee to private schools.

not all public schools are bad. hell in the bay area many heavily asian districts are ultra competitive high standard schools. its the students as much as the schools. you can't blame the teacher that much if the kiddy can't learn even algebra or to read, even an incompetent teacher will get that level of information across. blaming schools is too easy these days. in many of these competitive school districts white families are complaining that its too stressful and that they can't compete and pull their children out😛 hippies you know...

never mind how in san fran they tried spreading the asian students around to help raise standards. that pissed off asian parents.


white flight
http://www.wsjclassroomedition.com/teen/teencenter/05nov_whiteflight.htm
http://users2.wsj.com/lmda/do/checkLogi...113236377590902105.html%3Femailf%3Dyes
 
A many liberals wonder why people want school vouchers. Of course, if the parents don't care enough to check on their child's progress every day, then vouchers wont work either.
 
Simple answer: Liberals have ruined our schools and society.

Liberals don't believe in disciplining their child, they don't believe on settings limits on their child, they don't believe on setting goals for their child - then when their kid acts up they say "he's just a little boy, we can expect anything from him."

Then the kid goes to school and acts up, they say he has ADD. The kid curses at the teachers, run around class, sleeps in the class, doesn't do any work. Now we can't grade kids anymore because we don't believe in setting a standard for learning - because that?s racists, mean, not fair, etc. So the kids get passed anyway.

Then there are stupid parents who REFUSE to teach their child. In the video is a black woman complaining her 18 year old can't read - I bet she have never worked with him on it either. My family taught me to read BEFORE I went to Kindergarten.

Liberalism has ruined our schools and our society.

Oh and by the way, you liberals - under your own rules, you can't flame me or tell me I am wrong because that will offend me and we can't have that.
 
liberals like to blame underfunding and conservatives like to blame teachers unions, but the real problem in the US is parents and society.


Lets be real for a second: 40% of Americans don't believe in basic facts, teaching science in science class is a huge controversy, on TV and throughout pop culture "experts" are derided and brushed off in favour of loudmouths with poorly formed opinions, intellectualism is endlessly mocked and scorned, etc etc.

I'm sorry, but you can't have your cake and eat it too - the schools and students are simply a reflection of society as a whole. So don't expect school to improve no matter how much money you throw at them, or how many teachers you fire.

Edit: Before I get blamed for being anti-american or some such crap, I have to say that Canada has the same problems, although not as bad. I recently drove by my old high school and saw the following on the display board (where they announce school events and such):
"Doubt your doubts, not your beliefs".

A pretty poignant example of what I was talking about.
 
Originally posted by: Gibson486
You think that is scary...you should see colleges. So may people are going through college and not even knowing the bare minimum. These are the people who building our bridges....sacry thought.
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Is this a joke?
 
he's on crack. its even more competitive now at the top schools. how many new ivy leagues have opened recently? our population has increase quite a bit the last 50 years and there aren't many more spots to be had. last i remember hearing boomer gen had a much easier time getting into top schools, even the ivy league was only 1 in 4 chance of getting in. now its something like 1 out of 10 applicants.
 
This isn't surprising. The root of the problem isn't bad teachers, bad students, bad school, or even politicians. Our culture and attitude is to blame. Here's my reasoning.

Is education cool? No, it isn't. Knowledge and critical thinking isn't celebrated in our media much, if any at all. In the job place, engineers and scientists makes fraction of executive's pay, yet contribute the most to the company. In schools, the nerds and the geeks are ridiculed by their "peers". We have high schools that are willing to spend millions for new stadium, yet penny-pinch when asked to upgrade computer labs or library. Why? Because sports is 100% "cooler" than some dork programming contest. We have homecoming dance to celebrate football players (in Georgia at least), but no such luck for those who win academic contests. It isn't just sport jocks, there are many other attributes that makes kids "popular", but being "educated" isn't part of that list. So, tell me, how can we motivate kids to focus on their education? We can't. Our current culture doesn't care about education at all.

You can go on to blame liberals, conservatives, teacher's union, lazy parents, stupid kids, ADD, corrupt districts, corrupt officials, and broken policies. We can get rid of all that, and still go nowhere. We have to change our culture and attitude for actual change. Why are Asian kids considered to be much more successful in school? Because their culture have placed heavy emphasis in education for thousands of years. Things will only get worse as long as we keep the same attitude and culture.
 
no no, reinstate child labor. the solution to illegal immigration problem. wash out of primary school and get shipped to the fields 😉
 
Originally posted by: Trinitron
Simple answer: Liberals have ruined our schools and society.

Liberals don't believe in disciplining their child, they don't believe on settings limits on their child, they don't believe on setting goals for their child - then when their kid acts up they say "he's just a little boy, we can expect anything from him."

Then the kid goes to school and acts up, they say he has ADD. The kid curses at the teachers, run around class, sleeps in the class, doesn't do any work. Now we can't grade kids anymore because we don't believe in setting a standard for learning - because that?s racists, mean, not fair, etc. So the kids get passed anyway.

Then there are stupid parents who REFUSE to teach their child. In the video is a black woman complaining her 18 year old can't read - I bet she have never worked with him on it either. My family taught me to read BEFORE I went to Kindergarten.

Liberalism has ruined our schools and our society.

Oh and by the way, you liberals - under your own rules, you can't flame me or tell me I am wrong because that will offend me and we can't have that.
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:roll:
 
Originally posted by: Skyclad1uhm1
Here they close down schools that do not perform well enough. If the results are below standards and they fail to improve in a certain time they are forced to close.

That's something they should do in the US too. Instead of just giving them more money without looking at the cause of the problems.
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The US does do that... it is called "No Child Left Behind" (NCLB)
 
Originally posted by: CptObvious
I must be getting old (at 26), but I think it's due to a lack of discipline in our culture. Parents don't instill in their kids a sense of accountability for doing well and behaving right, while the teachers can't discipline the students because they'll be hit with lawsuits. As a result the school systems are blamed for not making the material more appealing.

I still think the biggest problems are with the parents. If they don't teach their kids the values that being intelligent and succeeding are good things, rather than coddling their stupidity, it's beyond the school system to try to fix that.
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ditto, half your education is from your parents
 
Originally posted by: razor2025
This isn't surprising. The root of the problem isn't bad teachers, bad students, bad school, or even politicians. Our culture and attitude is to blame. Here's my reasoning.

Is education cool? No, it isn't. Knowledge and critical thinking isn't celebrated in our media much, if any at all. In the job place, engineers and scientists makes fraction of executive's pay, yet contribute the most to the company. In schools, the nerds and the geeks are ridiculed by their "peers". We have high schools that are willing to spend millions for new stadium, yet penny-pinch when asked to upgrade computer labs or library. Why? Because sports is 100% "cooler" than some dork programming contest. We have homecoming dance to celebrate football players (in Georgia at least), but no such luck for those who win academic contests. It isn't just sport jocks, there are many other attributes that makes kids "popular", but being "educated" isn't part of that list. So, tell me, how can we motivate kids to focus on their education? We can't. Our current culture doesn't care about education at all.

You can go on to blame liberals, conservatives, teacher's union, lazy parents, stupid kids, ADD, corrupt districts, corrupt officials, and broken policies. We can get rid of all that, and still go nowhere. We have to change our culture and attitude for actual change. Why are Asian kids considered to be much more successful in school? Because their culture have placed heavy emphasis in education for thousands of years. Things will only get worse as long as we keep the same attitude and culture.
Click to expand...

Kids, almost by definition, don't know anything. They have two major influences in their lives: their parents and their schools. Well you can't do anything to control the parents, so that leaves you with the schools. Your argument is really chicken and the egg. If society breeds the children, and children will make up the society, then things will never change unless you change the only thing you can.
 
That video shows a lot of truth about public education. Fortunately, I went to a private school for the first 6 years of my educational career and actually learned. When I was dropped in a public school I was at first appalled and then bored; I was learning things in 5th grade that I had learned in 2nd grade in a private school.

The competition aspect they brought up in the report I believe is an excellent idea. Generally I am supportive of unions but the teacher's union is completely out of hand. Not allowing bonuses for teachers who are exceptional? Where is the incentive to excel? Paying sex offenders for sitting in a room? That is just not right. And they say video games make people go on shooting sprees. This really infuriates me on so many levels.
 
Originally posted by: Triumph
Originally posted by: razor2025
This isn't surprising. The root of the problem isn't bad teachers, bad students, bad school, or even politicians. Our culture and attitude is to blame. Here's my reasoning.

Is education cool? No, it isn't. Knowledge and critical thinking isn't celebrated in our media much, if any at all. In the job place, engineers and scientists makes fraction of executive's pay, yet contribute the most to the company. In schools, the nerds and the geeks are ridiculed by their "peers". We have high schools that are willing to spend millions for new stadium, yet penny-pinch when asked to upgrade computer labs or library. Why? Because sports is 100% "cooler" than some dork programming contest. We have homecoming dance to celebrate football players (in Georgia at least), but no such luck for those who win academic contests. It isn't just sport jocks, there are many other attributes that makes kids "popular", but being "educated" isn't part of that list. So, tell me, how can we motivate kids to focus on their education? We can't. Our current culture doesn't care about education at all.

You can go on to blame liberals, conservatives, teacher's union, lazy parents, stupid kids, ADD, corrupt districts, corrupt officials, and broken policies. We can get rid of all that, and still go nowhere. We have to change our culture and attitude for actual change. Why are Asian kids considered to be much more successful in school? Because their culture have placed heavy emphasis in education for thousands of years. Things will only get worse as long as we keep the same attitude and culture.
Click to expand...

Kids, almost by definition, don't know anything. They have two major influences in their lives: their parents and their schools. Well you can't do anything to control the parents, so that leaves you with the schools. Your argument is really chicken and the egg. If society breeds the children, and children will make up the society, then things will never change unless you change the only thing you can.
Click to expand...


no, their major influence are their peers. its why immigrant parents children grow up with american accents not their parents. steven pinkers book the blank slate is a good book on this.
 
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