Have LCDs caught up with CRTs yet for gamers?

[SynthDude2001]

Originally posted by: Andvari
^ That helps a lot, thanks!

I'll be able to afford a new graphics card soon anyway, so if 1600x1200 is too much for WoW, or if I'm not happy with the image quality scaled down to a resolution I CAN use, then I'll get a new vid card some day in the near future.

What about my processor? It's still good to go right?

Sorry to get off-topic heh. I think I'll be ordering that 2001FP today.

Glad to help.

I haven't used an Intel system in years (so I'm kind of out of touch with that side of things), but I'd imagine a 2.8C should be sufficient. It's not like there are much faster processors out yet anyway...

You could always overclock some if you wanted to as well.

 

[Zenbeatnik]

Originally posted by: Alptraum

Originally posted by: Edward Lee
All you LCD fans can't really be serious. LCD's are no where near the picture quality of a top of the line CRT.
This is not a flame, but in terms of overall picture quality there is a night and day difference between CRT and LCD.

Well, we will just have to disagree on that. Having owned multiple nice CRTs (The Mitsubishi Diamond Pro 2040u and Sony G520p among them) over the years I can tell you for sure that my 192t looks better. And I have spent lots of time with all of them.

Well, I'll just have to agree with you. I've been using a 21" Sony GDM-F520 CRT for a couple of years but my new 19" Mitsubishi RDT195S at 8MS kicks the previous monitor's ass. Black is (as it should be) really black with the Mits LCD. Simply awesome. :thumbsup:

 

[funggorgor]

not yet!
CRT is still the only choice for serious gamers

 

[Alptraum]

Originally posted by: Zenbeatnik

Originally posted by: Alptraum

Originally posted by: Edward Lee
All you LCD fans can't really be serious. LCD's are no where near the picture quality of a top of the line CRT.
This is not a flame, but in terms of overall picture quality there is a night and day difference between CRT and LCD.

Well, we will just have to disagree on that. Having owned multiple nice CRTs (The Mitsubishi Diamond Pro 2040u and Sony G520p among them) over the years I can tell you for sure that my 192t looks better. And I have spent lots of time with all of them.

Well, I'll just have to agree with you. I've been using a 21" Sony GDM-F520 CRT for a couple of years but my new 19" Mitsubishi RDT195S at 8MS kicks the previous monitor's ass. Black is (as it should be) really black with the Mits LCD. Simply awesome. :thumbsup:

You and I are typical of all the people that I actually know have owned a nice large CRT and then switched to a nice LCD. Out of the people I know personally every single one thought the LCD was superior. And most of the people I have seen talk about it on the net are the same way. This mainly applies to people that have actually owned and spent time with them. As opposed to people that just say things like "LCD's are no where near the picture quality of a top of the line CRT". Not to slam it or anything, but while nice the 912n that the poster who said that has is not exactly what I would refer to as a high end LCD.

There are exceptions. I have talked with I think two people that went back to CRT.

I am only really referring to people that have had 21"+ high end CRTs and then switched to a nice high end LCD. And spent a large amount of time with both.

 

[dgevert]

Well, I've been kind of thinking about getting a cheap/decent (obviously looking for a 16 ms or better response time) 15" LCD, but it'd be exclusively for LAN parties/any time when I want to move my computer. The only thing making me hesitate is that it's a lot of money for a monitor I'll only use occassionally. I lucked out and had a friend who wanted to get rid of his 21" monitor...it was just sitting in storage at his house collecting dust. He only wanted $50 for it, and I jumped on it. I love it...but it IS a behemoth, and I live on the third floor in the dorm I call home (no elevator) so I don't exactly like moving it.

My old Samsung 753df (17" flat CRT) got lost in the mail. There have been times where I've considered selling the 21" and using the insurance money from the 17" and getting a nice 17" LCD, but I think I'll hold off on it.

 

[drpootums]

There's a decent BenQ LCD i want with a native res of 12x10. After seeing this forum, i'm kinda worried about buying it. It's a 19in LCD at newegg for $380, and from what i hear it is amazing for the price. It looks good and is cheap and was really interesting me, but when my computer gets too slow and i have to run games at 10x7 will my image quality really get that much worst? I need desk space, and frankly liked my mom's 25ms 15" LCD she got with her compaq better than my CRT.

 

[philler]

i prefer my self crt moniters...
dell has made a real good one(exept for the price 😛) 19" res. 1600x1200.-
.. that is a very good LCD/TFT moniter.. but still.. i think there will go a lot time before the LCD moniters will strike the CRT moniters out of the market...

 

[zerocool84]

yup im waiting until the GOOD lcd's drop in price cus with my monitor that i paid top dollar for 3 years ago, i should be fine

 

[FrustratedUser]

Originally posted by: svi
Kind of. Streaking and ghosting simply aren't issues on good LCDs, but you still have to deal with image quality degradation when a game (or anything, really) isn't run at the LCD's native resolution. There's also color reproduction, but LCDs are close enough these days that I doubt that'll bother you unless you do desktop publishing for a living.

Keep in mind that you'll get people on both sides of the fence who will say all sorts of things. Weight opinions as you see fit, and compare good LCDs and CRTs in person if you can. FWIW, I use both LCDs and CRTs regularly, and the only thing that really bothers me about LCDs is the resolution thing. The only thing that really bothers me about CRTs is sheer bulk, of course.

I do not agree with te image quality issue you mentioned. I got the 2001FP from Dell and I've played many games at 1024 x 768, 1152 x 864 and 1280 x 1024 and it looks awesome. I can't see a difference between those and native other than that the text and other info on the screen is smaller.

Anyone else here to back me up? I just don't get what the issue is. I agree it doesn't look great for normal non-gaming use but in games it scales very well.

 

[RealityTime]

mitsu's diamond pro crt's kick the ass off all lcd comers. Check the reviews, crts are still the best in terms of image quality. So long as you don't care of their size, they are the best for performance . And thats what we at anand go for right ? 😀 Plus there is no lcd that doesn't think black=grey :roll:

 

[VTrider]

I have a Dell 1800FP LCD and a 19" Samsung Syncmaster 955DF (CRT).

Even though the CRT is dated and mid-range quality, I still prefer my FPS games on that instead of the LCD. Gameplay just seems 'better' looking through glass for some reason?

 

[bjc112]

Originally posted by: funggorgor
not yet!
CRT is still the only choice for serious gamers

Depends on which screen..

I would take this 2005fp over my e540 21" Sony ANY day of the week. And i consider myself a very serious gamer.

 

[sharkeeper]

I was looking at a friend's PC over the weekend that has a strange problem.

Anyways, all I had on the bench handy was a NEC M500 monitor. It's a 15" CRT with speakers, CIRCA 1996. Anyways, he had Max Payne 2 on it so I fired it up and low and behold the contrast and movement in general was liquid smooth on that screen. On an unrelated note it is small enough that I don't have to worry about getting sick playing the game.

The Apple monitors (23 and 30) that I have are very fast but still do not have the contrast of a CRT. Once the contrast hits 2000:1, these will look really good. My DLP projector in the multimedia room has 2000:1 contrast and it is incredibly dark on dark scenes.

I have AT up on the 23 right now and the damn forum looks like the pink panther. This panel is going pink! Some of these panels do have the problem with pink but it's probably being augmented by the 12 year old Scotch that I've been making good use of. 🙂

Cheers!

 

[Visual]

sharkeeper: i bet you can fix the pink apple if you run the color calibration app 🙂

about non-native resolutions, i must say that i really imagined (and seen, on laptops and cheapo LCDs) very nasty results indeed. but i just got a 192T today (old model, i know, but it was also just $400) and I'm amased by how it scales the image. even for text, it works great with a native 1280x1024 at 1024x768 resolution. if i run 640x480 i can see some spooky vertical scaling artifacts for text as the pixels become quite large now (1 logical pixel becomes 2 physical pixels wide and 2.something high) but it still works way better than i imagined. not an issue at all for graphics(pictures, games, movies), surprisingly good for text.

once they start making 4 gigapixel LCDs, the scaling to lower resolutions will be really smooth 😛

drpootums: with the videocard you have, i wouldn't worry about games not running 12x10 any time soon. you'd better just lower down AA/AF and stick to native res, but even if you do play something on non-native i dont think you'd be bothered by the scaling. at least if its done as good as on my samsung 🙂
be careful about the benq though... i can't be sure but i guess it's a 6bit display - thats why its so fast(response time) and so cheap at the same time. if that's the case, you may notice the reduction in actual colours... then again, you may not notice it at all, so it'd still be a great monitor.

Andvari: did you get the dell already? post your impressions here when you do 🙂
if you haven't ordered yet, consider getting the 2005FPW instead. its actually cheaper at dell, and a lot of games support wide-screen already... you can be sure that wide-screen is hell better than 4:3 where it's supported.
for games that cant support widescreen, hopefully it also has the option to center 4:3 images instead of stretching them ugly...

 

[techwanabe]

I have a Dell E193FP 19" flat panel LCD with 16 ms refresh and 500:1 contrast, and standard VGA connector. I have to say the following... Native resolution issues aside, if running at native - games look pretty good on this computer. The only issue I can see vs a CRT is that images look slightly pixelated because the LCD pixels are sharply defined so I can see them clearly. ON a CRT, the pixels are slightly out of focus and rounded, there for they "blend in" more. I have been running some 3D games at 1200x1024 to get the best resolution and the pixilation is noticable, but not bad. I never though I'd say 1200x1024 is pixlated, but it is somewhat due to the sharp definition of each pixel (which are .29 dot pitch in physical size. I haven't noticed any ghosting on this monitor, but I don't play intense FPS games either. Overall I am pleased with how the monitor is on my eyes. When I go back to my Samsung DF753 monitor (which is getting a bit tired) it bothers my eyes - partly due to the smaller image and partly due to the lack of focus. I realize if I got a 19" high quality CRT, things would be somewhat different.

 

[Koing]

I'd have to say they are the same for me.

THE ONLY difference is if your doing COLOUR CRITICAL WORK. Then the only way to go is 'special' monitors that have special filaments or something so you can get 2000 shades from 'white' to 'black' in photoshop. MOST CRT or LCD WILL NOT SHOW YOU ALL OF IT. The monitor needs a 20minute warm up period where it is on 'before' the colous are 'accurate' still 😛 Most people don't have a need to see colour accuracy like this. If they do they'll go with a special CRT.

I have used a 19" Iiyama Vision Master Pro450 for years. Amazing monitor and heralded by many many people. Great display but big and heavy.

I have been using my 23" Sony LCD (last gen and not this gen's 16ms one) for the last 2yrs. Colours look great on it. Pictures look stunning. Text looks amazing. Video looks great. Slightly laggy on longer pans but I can live with it. The response time of mine is slower but the 16ms ones are much better. I save a lot of space and I run 1920x1200.

I saw a friends Iiyama 17" LCD which has 16ms and it was the same to a friends Iiyama Vision Master Pro 454. That guy SERIOUSLY need to calibrate his monitor though!

Scaling with my monitor looks good. It looks the same just that text is 'slightly fuzzy' and has the 'bit' out of focus by a pixel or so on my screen. Basically the same with an other 17" LCD I saw but less noticeable due to the size.

Can't wait until they drop further.

Koing

 

[mabromley]

I just switched from CRT to LCD this week. Used to run a belinea 19" monitor 1280*1024. Now I'm using a ViewSonic VP201s 16ms, 1600*1200 @ 70htz and have to say I'm really happy I switched.

It's literally the best piece of kit I've bought for my computer (Shameless plug if ever there was one but it is!). The screen size is 16" by 12" and I don't have any problems with ghosting or back lights. I can't tell the difference in the games I play (counterstrike, half life, ww2online, DVDs even). Plus I get an adjustable stand, which is neat as my monitor is now head height and not quite as forward as before with it only being an inch n a half thick 😉

Imho it was worth the extra money regardless if someone out there thinks the picture quality doesn't compare to their CRT!

 

[DrCool]

i've been using a Samsung 17" 712n (12ms / 600:1 contrast ratio / analog) for about 2 weeks now, and comparing it to my 17" Samsung 793MB (.20mm/1280x1024)..

i've had the opportunity to use quite a few LCD's over the years, and distinctly recall ugly ghosting on all of them, in any FPS pc game.. I get ZERO ghosting in HL2 / Doom3 / MOH / etc..

my biggest disappointment is with color reproduction and true black. the CRT monitor is very much superior in these areas..

LCD's have definitly improved to the point that they could easily replace your CRT, even for gaming!

 

[SunSamurai]

Originally posted by: funggorgor
not yet!
CRT is still the only choice for serious gamers

Oxymoron anyone? :roll:

If you want to "seriously" game, youll get a Aoole display. For the rest of us that dont have out heads in the clouds and like to be practical, the best bet youre going to have is a LCD 19" . Price, preformance, some of them cant be beat except by CRTs that would cost just as much or more.

Color reproduction does SUCK on some of them. I have one that does not, so I am time and again baffled by why people think LCDs are just not for gameing (i use many CRTs as well). My color is vibrant and accurite with very slight tint change at extreem angles. And even then it only gets slightly darker/lighter. Ghoasting is noticable in extreem contrast conditions and this is a 25ms monitor. Text and images are crisp and clear, white is while and black is nearly pitch.

It cost me $500 two years ago and its the best computer upgrade I have made in all my years of upgrading my own PC. I would like to say I wouldent trade it in for any CRT, but I would, and then I would sell that CRT and get two newer versions of this LCD.

 

[nksheriff]

whats the best crt or the best lcd for a budget of about 600$-700

 

[Visual]

right now the best choice is the dell 2405FPW, it's down to $850 with the right coupons i think.
or the 2005FPW for $350

if you don't want widescreen, maybe the 19" dell, either 1904FP or 1905FP im not sure

 

[Sunner]

Nope, not IMO, I still prefer CRT's, and that's before even bringing price into the picture.

 

[Visual]

tell me where i can get a widescreen(1920x1200) crt with 24" visible diagonal then

i do agree, "average CRTs" are way better than "average TFTs" for gaming. my 192T for example shows a pretty noticeable response time problem. but today's high-end TFTs like this Dell, or the 23" and 30" Apple displays definitely outclass your average CRT.

CRTs are a tech of the past now, just like they're getting abandoned in the HDTV industry in favor of fixed-pixel tech like Plasma, DLP and TFT

 

[Sunner]

Originally posted by: Visual
tell me where i can get a widescreen(1920x1200) crt with 24" visible diagonal then

i do agree, "average CRTs" are way better than "average TFTs" for gaming. my 192T for example shows a pretty noticeable response time problem. but today's high-end TFTs like this Dell, or the 23" and 30" Apple displays definitely outclass your average CRT.

CRTs are a tech of the past now, just like they're getting abandoned in the HDTV industry in favor of fixed-pixel tech like Plasma, DLP and TFT

Tell me where I can get a TFT where black = black.
And no, dark grey != black.

And yes, I've looked at the Apple Cinemas.

 

[kobymu]

Originally posted by: Edward Lee
The short and simple... No..

:thumbsup: