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Hating Apple is more hip and trendy than liking them

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Rakehellion said:
What are you actually comparing it to? Name a company who'd have handled it differently.

What I remember about 2008 is Apple released a new iPhone that was faster and cheaper than the last generation, so they handed out cash refunds to people who bought the previous model. What other company gives out cash?
Click to expand...

Holy shit you guys are dense. Thats my entire fucking point. No company would handle it differently so why pay the price premium?

The hardware is the same, the customer care is the same, the price is much higher.


That's a nice little hook. That's all that is.
 
LegendKiller said:
The hardware is the same, the customer care is the same
Click to expand...


You didn't address this:

Rakehellion said:
What I remember about 2008 is Apple released a new iPhone that was faster and cheaper than the last generation, so they handed out cash refunds to people who bought the previous model. What other company gives out cash?
Click to expand...

Or this:

Rakehellion said:
If you don't care that the Apple laptop is 30% thinner and lighter than the competitor's, or has a battery that lasts 50% longer, or has 20% better color saturation, or is 6dB quieter, or 10 degrees cooler, then don't buy one. An HP is good enough for you.
Click to expand...

Or this:

Screen-Shot-2013-09-17-at-2.58.58-PM.png


asci-chart-sept2010.gif


081231_changewave_pc_satisfaction.gif


090218_cw_satisfaction.gif



But of course I'm just a crazy fanboi who doesn't let things like facts get in my way.

Bring some more of your anecdotal evidence to the table. It's very insightful.
 
Rakehellion said:
You didn't address this:



Or this:



Or this:

Screen-Shot-2013-09-17-at-2.58.58-PM.png


asci-chart-sept2010.gif


081231_changewave_pc_satisfaction.gif


090218_cw_satisfaction.gif



But of course I'm just a crazy fanboi who doesn't let things like facts get in my way.

Bring some more of your anecdotal evidence to the table. It's very insightful.
Click to expand...

There are two cognitive biases that cover apple very well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-purchase_rationalization

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

It's very simple really, people who purchase the more expensive item rationalize that item by understating problems or shortcomings and overstating benefits. This is the only way they can not feel "bad" about their purchases. This is highlighted by self-report studies.

A good example of this is my wife. She had a 2001 Honda Accord. That generation was well known for transmission issues (they effected Honda and Acura) and eventually it affected my wife's car. Luckily they replaced the transmission post-warranty and even extended the warranty.

Now, if you asked my wife (self reporting) how many problems she had with the car she would state "zero". Why? Because she doesn't want to acknowledge that a car which she researched extensively and believed in would have a problem. Since Hondas are known to be reliable cars she had cognitive dissonance as to her own car's unreliability. This dissonance was resolved by saying they fixed it. Yet the car still had the problem, it was still unreliable, regardless of the fix. Had it been 1-2 years older I doubt Honda would have fixed it, even if it would have been as a result of a problem they knew about.

You could also say this is the Consumer Reports affect.

Naturally the opposite of self-reporting, confirmation, and post-purchase rationalization is 3rd party confirmation of reliability on a statistically significant level, controlling for exogenous variables. The best party to study this would be a warranty company, luckily we have a 3rd party warranty company that did study it.


http://www.squaretrade.com/htm/pdf/SquareTrade_laptop_reliability_1109.pdf

Hmmm...interesting, eh?

I know a used car finance company that self-insures warranties, I have asked them repeatedly for their warranty info information. Naturally they won't release it but I tease them about it every time they come into my office for a meeting. Why? Because I would rather get past the BS and boil it down to a disinterested 3rd party.
 
People who overspend always try to rationalize their purchase over and over and over. So thats why they have high customer satisfaction. To not like a high margin product would be to admit that you did a bad thing and overpaid for it.

When people talk about how much they love apple they aren't really trying to tell you how great apple is, as if you never heard of them, so much as trying to justify why they bought it. They could talk in the mirror about how much they love apple for all it matters.
 
I think we are long past the point where anti-Apple fanboys are more annoying than pro-Apple fanboys.

Speaking for myself, I was always a diehard PC guy, and have built and completely overhauled many PCs. I bought my first modern Mac, a MacBook, in 2005, intending to run Windows on it. Since that time I have found that I just prefer Apple products to their PC analogues. For me the build quality and design of their laptops, in particular, is unsurpassed, and I strongly prefer iOS devices to their Android equivalents. I am typing this on a mid-2009 13" MBP that has seen hours of use, pretty much every day, for nearly 5 years. I find it stunning that any laptop could survive 5 years with me, much less be pleasant to use after all that time. (It has, admittedly, had a battery replaced, and I have added RAM and a 512GB SSD, but it has never needed a single repair.)
 
LegendKiller said:
There are two cognitive biases that cover apple very well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-purchase_rationalization

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

It's very simple really, people who purchase the more expensive item rationalize that item by understating problems or shortcomings and overstating benefits. This is the only way they can not feel "bad" about their purchases. This is highlighted by self-report studies.

A good example of this is my wife. She had a 2001 Honda Accord. That generation was well known for transmission issues (they effected Honda and Acura) and eventually it affected my wife's car. Luckily they replaced the transmission post-warranty and even extended the warranty.

Now, if you asked my wife (self reporting) how many problems she had with the car she would state "zero". Why? Because she doesn't want to acknowledge that a car which she researched extensively and believed in would have a problem. Since Hondas are known to be reliable cars she had cognitive dissonance as to her own car's unreliability. This dissonance was resolved by saying they fixed it. Yet the car still had the problem, it was still unreliable, regardless of the fix. Had it been 1-2 years older I doubt Honda would have fixed it, even if it would have been as a result of a problem they knew about.

You could also say this is the Consumer Reports affect.

Naturally the opposite of self-reporting, confirmation, and post-purchase rationalization is 3rd party confirmation of reliability on a statistically significant level, controlling for exogenous variables. The best party to study this would be a warranty company, luckily we have a 3rd party warranty company that did study it.


http://www.squaretrade.com/htm/pdf/SquareTrade_laptop_reliability_1109.pdf

Hmmm...interesting, eh?

I know a used car finance company that self-insures warranties, I have asked them repeatedly for their warranty info information. Naturally they won't release it but I tease them about it every time they come into my office for a meeting. Why? Because I would rather get past the BS and boil it down to a disinterested 3rd party.
Click to expand...


But isn't the willingness of the car manufacturer to fix the problem and extend the warranty without hassle part of customer satisfaction too?

There is something to be said for brand and customer loyalty. I know that Newegg doesn't always have the best prices, but they have never given me trouble when I've needed to RMA something unlike many cheaper vendors. This gives me more confidence when purchasing from them so I'll be willing to pay a slightly higher price.

And if the transmission blew up in a new car, I really wouldn't be angry about it so long as the manufacturer would make it right. Thus I would still be satisfied with my purchase. That and I would have the benefit of having a new transmission that most likely won't have the same issue that cause my old one to die.


I'm sure Apple's rating is somewhat inflated, but I know plenty of people who transitioned over from PC to Mac and say that the grass is generally greener.
 
anyone saying hardware on the expensive macbook laptops and a comparative pc are just flat out wrong. regardless if they have the same exact cpu, ram, graphics card, etc, the physical hardware on macbook pros is superior by a long shot. whether it's worth all of the extra money is up to the buyer.

but to say simply buying a mac is "over spending for the same product" is just flat out false.
 
That's not entirely true either.

If you know anything about the hackintosh projects, then you would know that there are OEM PCs that you can purchase which are near to exact matches of Macintosh's available lines.

Not only that, but the majority of their products use stuff that you can buy at Newegg. And the UEFIs can be modded so that you would literally have a Macintosh in all but name.

What I will say is that the Hardware purchases do tend to be on the higher end and thus are more expensive, but still not as expensive as actually buying a similarly equipped Mac.

At the end of the day, you are still paying for the OS which I don't think is necessarily bad. There is an argument for designing an OS to work with specific hardware.
 
I enjoy my Apple products. You enjoy your Windows/Android products.
I thought this would be the end of the conversation as I believe most people dont really give a damn about what other think of their purchases.

This thread proves that the fanboys are as annoying as the haters.
 
88keys said:
That's not entirely true either.

If you know anything about the hackintosh projects, then you would know that there are OEM PCs that you can purchase which are near to exact matches of Macintosh's available lines.

Not only that, but the majority of their products use stuff that you can buy at Newegg. And the UEFIs can be modded so that you would literally have a Macintosh in all but name.

What I will say is that the Hardware purchases do tend to be on the higher end and thus are more expensive, but still not as expensive as actually buying a similarly equipped Mac.

At the end of the day, you are still paying for the OS which I don't think is necessarily bad. There is an argument for designing an OS to work with specific hardware.
Click to expand...

i'm on a hackintosh right now on an hp probook 4540s, and it was probably $800 or $1k less than the equivalent macbook would be.

the thing is, my screen isn't as nice, the trackpad isn't as nice, the battery doesn't last as long, the form factor isn't as nice, etc. how much all of that is worth to people varies. so to flat out say "you could get the same windows laptop for $1k less" isn't exactly true no matter how you want to sway it.
 
Rakehellion said:
Blah blah blah, didn't read any of this crap because you ignored the actual data.

Generalized statements do not counter specific facts.
Click to expand...

This is exactly how a fanboi works. You refuse to accept your decision is questionable.

Self reporting on expensive goods is a horrible berometer of actual performance. But don't let silly things like statisticalky valid studiea, actual data, and logic get in your way. Deny science and reality all you want.
 
LegendKiller said:
This is exactly how a fanboi works. You refuse to accept your decision is questionable.
Click to expand...

As I said before, I haven't made any "decision" at all. Or expressed any opinion about any type of computer. But the fact that you keep ignoring my arguments is pretty solid evidence that you don't believe your own bullshit.
 
Rakehellion said:
As I said before, I haven't made any "decision" at all. Or expressed any opinion about any type of computer. But the fact that you keep ignoring my arguments is pretty solid evidence that you don't believe your own bullshit.
Click to expand...

No, it means I don't believe in your, or Apple's, bullshit. It means that I dismiss self-reporting bias in favor of disinterested 3rd party, statistically significant, non-self reported data that clearly shows the failure rate for Apple computers is *WORSE* than two other brands and really isn't outside of any other brand by a any meaningful amount.

That you would dismiss that data only shows how biased you are. You may self-report you haven't made a decision but it is plainly evident you have.
 
I have always hated Apple. Does that make me the ultimate hipster of the tendy apple hating crowd?

But for serious. I will never forgive apple for some how convincing my parents to by a G3 and as a result I had to wait an additional year to buy Starcraft 1 and pay $60 for it from compusa.

Diaf Apple.
 
non-self reported data
Click to expand...

SquareTrade offers insurance policies for laptops. All of their data is reported by users, just like the information I provided.

that clearly shows the failure rate for Apple computers is *WORSE* than two other brands and really isn't outside of any other brand by a any meaningful amount.
Click to expand...

That was in 2009. This data from 2012 puts them on top in reliability.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2020725/apple-macbooks-lead-in-laptop-features-and-reliability.html


And you still haven't addressed the main issue.
 
Why must we criticize what other people like? Are we that nosy? Or is it something else?

Apple products are good quality and seem to work very well. The prices seem to be competitive now so that is another thing that is good. I don't get the hate or the love though.

These products are designed and made by man. Why get so attached to them or the company? (Then again, I don't walk in anyone's shoes so I can't say much more).
 
Rakehellion said:
SquareTrade offers insurance policies for laptops. All of their data is reported by users, just like the information I provided.



That was in 2009. This data from 2012 puts them on top in reliability.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2020725/apple-macbooks-lead-in-laptop-features-and-reliability.html


And you still haven't addressed the main issue.
Click to expand...


Have you ever had a squaretrade warranty? Do you even understand the process to report a problem and have it fixed? It is not self reporting.

That whole article is self reporting. Did you even read it?
 
Rakehellion said:
Apple giving a cash refund to early adopters is not bias.

A MacBook being thinner, lighter, and having a longer lasting battery and better screen and running cooler than most laptops is not bias.
Click to expand...

I addressed that as a hook.

I am not worried as much about thinner and lighter. I value longevity the most. The rest is secondary.

There are those who are superficial and are worried about half an inch of thickness or a quarter lb of weight and will pay a premium for that but still have a worse or just the same computer.

Run cooler? Tough to agree when my computer is dying from heat related issues.
 
Rakehellion said:
Yes, SquareTrade waits for an end-user to report a hardware failure, whether real or imagined, and they write down the number of calls they get.
Click to expand...

The problems are reported and fixed by authorized squaretrade ahops. Thus it is not just self reported. If the shops have to fix real problems and squaretrade reports those.
 
Last edited:
Rakehellion said:
Subjective. Your needs are not the needs of all laptop users.



Subjective. Users will choose a machine that meets their needs, which makes it a better machine for them.



That isn't what that means and you know it.

And you still ignored my other points.
Click to expand...

Just as subjective as self reporting. If you dismiss my subjectivity you must dismiss all self reporting and only rely upon squaretrades verified 3rd party data.
 
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