Haswell will rival graphics performance of today's discrete cards!

[tcsenter]

Intel's integrated video has sucked for the past 10 years. I don't have much hope for a sudden improvement now.

False. Each generation of Intel integrated graphics have improved substantially since GMA 3000 series (e.g. G965). Granted, they had a LOT to make-up for (i.e. Intel was way behind) and GMA 3000 was something of a false start (over-hyped and under-delivered), but GMA X3500 through Intel HD Graphics (Arrandale/Clarkdale) have brought at least 30% improvement in performance over their predecessor. Current Intel HD 3000 (Sandy Bridge) graphics are twice as fast as its predecessor, rivaling entry-level discrete parts such as ATI Radeon HD 5450.

 

[Phynaz]

HD 3000 may be better than Intel's prior offerings, but it still sucks. Especially the craptastic drivers.

 

[Nemesis 1]

I don't know if the HD 3000 sucks or not . I can tell ya I like it alot. I have mine set up in imode along side an NV560 Ti. and I really like it .
I finally got this bios figured out and I am running NO Turbo boost . Instead I locked the cpu to 4.5ghz and enabled CE/C states. Made one adjustment in C state and I am idling at 30c and when I put an app to the OS It just kicks arse. I have seen it hit 5.ghz set up like this. The HD 3000/2000 is a big part of this performance as it is the gpu being used all most 90% of the time and it does everthing HD1080p is nothing and runs perfectly. Than of course there is quick sink . It is rather speedy. Than there is the NV 560 Ti to do the heavey 3D work.
So I think the HD2000/3000 are great if used properly.

In imode I get 27,654 3Dmark06
In dmode 1 get 28130 3Dmark06

SO imode is great for getting the best out of all the hardware on board.

 

[Phynaz]

So am I not using mine properly?

Here's my setup:
Intel HD graphics in a HP Elitebook laptop with docking station. Docking station is connected to a 1920x1200 display. When connected to the dock the internal display is off.

Issue:
When Windows puts the monitor to sleep the resolution gets reset to 13x7 - the resolution of the internal laptop. Upon wake-up the resolution is reset to 19x12, but all open windows have been re-sized to the 13x7 display - which was never turned on. Every time I walk away from my desk I have to re-size all my open windows. Pain the ass.

Prior laptop - HP nc6400 with Nvidia graphics had no such issue.

 

[apoppin]

I don't know if the HD 3000 sucks or not . I can tell ya I like it alot. I have mine set up in imode along side an NV560 Ti. and I really like it .
I finally got this bios figured out and I am running NO Turbo boost . Instead I locked the cpu to 4.5ghz and enabled CE/C states. Made one adjustment in C state and I am idling at 30c and when I put an app to the OS It just kicks arse. I have seen it hit 5.ghz set up like this. The HD 3000/2000 is a big part of this performance as it is the gpu being used all most 90% of the time and it does everthing HD1080p is nothing and runs perfectly. Than of course there is quick sink . It is rather speedy. Than there is the NV 560 Ti to do the heavey 3D work.
So I think the HD2000/3000 are great if used properly.

In imode I get 27,654 3Dmark06
In dmode 1 get 28130 3Dmark06

SO imode is great for getting the best out of all the hardware on board.

Who cares about 3DMark06?
- it's 2011 .. stop living 5 years in the past, Intel

Let's see your 3DMark11 scores

 

[formulav8]

Who cares about 3DMark06?
- it's 2011 .. stop living 5 years in the past, Intel

Let's see your 3DMark11 scores

I guess he wouldn't because it would show Intel falling flat on its face. Not even DX11 support :thumbsdown:

 

[sandorski]

VIA will probably be in the same ballpark.

 

[OCGuy]

I guess he wouldn't because it would show Intel falling flat on its face. Not even DX11 support :thumbsdown:

DX11? Ha. That would have zero use on integrated GPU.

 

[Nemesis 1]

I guess he wouldn't because it would show Intel falling flat on its face. Not even DX11 support :thumbsdown:

NO it wouldn't it would show the the flexability of the virtu software imode as when required in 3Dmark vantage , The test would run on the NV 560Ti and it would run the test with physics enable . Completely smoking a AMD configured PC out of the water.

As A gamer now if you choose llano you get THE AMD CPU + the IGP plus a discrete . The Intel based setup will come out on top every time. With IGP+ NV discrete graphics .

 

[apoppin]

NO it wouldn't it would show the the flexability of the virtu software imode as when required in 3Dmark vantage , The test would run on the NV 560Ti and it would run the test with physics enable . Completely smoking a AMD configured PC out of the water.

Post your 3DMark11 score please! Let's see the mini-game framerates also in the stock test. We already know SB's IG sucks for almost any PC 3D gaming; nevermind DX11 support.

If we need a comparison, i have an overclocked GTX 560 Ti and a Phenom II 980 BE at 4.3GHz
(the GTX 560 Ti is currently in use in SLI in my Intel PC in evaluating Crysis 2's DX11 patch, so it may be a little while)

 

[AdamK47]

I don't know if the HD 3000 sucks or not . I can tell ya I like it alot. I have mine set up in imode along side an NV560 Ti. and I really like it .
I finally got this bios figured out and I am running NO Turbo boost . Instead I locked the cpu to 4.5ghz and enabled CE/C states. Made one adjustment in C state and I am idling at 30c and when I put an app to the OS It just kicks arse. I have seen it hit 5.ghz set up like this. The HD 3000/2000 is a big part of this performance as it is the gpu being used all most 90% of the time and it does everthing HD1080p is nothing and runs perfectly. Than of course there is quick sink . It is rather speedy. Than there is the NV 560 Ti to do the heavey 3D work.
So I think the HD2000/3000 are great if used properly.

In imode I get 27,654 3Dmark06
In dmode 1 get 28130 3Dmark06

SO imode is great for getting the best out of all the hardware on board.

No Turbo boost is how I would do any of my overclocks. Never been a fan of turbo boost.

 

[wahdangun]

NO it wouldn't it would show the the flexability of the virtu software imode as when required in 3Dmark vantage , The test would run on the NV 560Ti and it would run the test with physics enable . Completely smoking a AMD configured PC out of the water.

As A gamer now if you choose llano you get THE AMD CPU + the IGP plus a discrete . The Intel based setup will come out on top every time. With IGP+ NV discrete graphics .

so basically you said intel NEED third party driver and a gpu manufacture that have trashed intel with their cartoon and suing intel JUST TO BE COMPETITIVE IN GAMES ? That is ironic and sad

 

[Cerb]

As A gamer now if you choose llano you get THE AMD CPU + the IGP plus a discrete . The Intel based setup will come out on top every time. With IGP+ NV discrete graphics .

As a gamer, now, it would be crazy to get Llano. Rather, any gamers that might get Llano would never pay anything near the cost of a 560 Ti. SB w/ IGP is the fair comparison against Llano.

 

[Nemesis 1]

so basically you said intel NEED third party driver and a gpu manufacture that have trashed intel with their cartoon and suing intel JUST TO BE COMPETITIVE IN GAMES ? That is ironic and sad

Never said NO such. I said if your a real life gamer. Not a llano AMD game pushing GPU as a a cpu . Your living in a make believe world that was just recently created . Llano has no real gaming power so you need to add a discrete card if your a real gamer. If your selling APUs for AMD you likely say anything . But real world intel processor at High dif. is alot faster paired with any gpu than is an AMD cpu . So why would you buy llano and than buy a discrete for inferrior performance. Llano by itself is a game lagger.
SO SB with Discrete NV in imode might set ya back a couple hundred more but your getting that much more for your money .

I am a betting man I say intel at the end of the 3rd qt . has even more market share.
Whats going on with the llano mobile reviews their not doing nearly as well in the power department as the prerelease benchmark done here.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Post your 3DMark11 score please! Let's see the mini-game framerates also in the stock test. We already know SB's IG sucks for almost any PC 3D gaming; nevermind DX11 support.

If we need a comparison, i have an overclocked GTX 560 Ti and a Phenom II 980 BE at 4.3GHz
(the GTX 560 Ti is currently in use in SLI in my Intel PC in evaluating Crysis 2's DX11 patch, so it may be a little while)

I don't have any vantage bench mark on this machine just the 3dmark 06 and thats deleted . All I have is Super Pi cineabench 32/64 bit .

On mygamer I have all the benchmarks but I wasn't discussing my gamer benchmarks .

The score I wrote is the only 3D mark score this pc will run 1 in imode 1 in dmode once without intel IGP at all. Thats it this is a browser. So I really don't care . just as long as its faster than AMD setups and it is .

 

[StrangerGuy]

I don't have any vantage bench mark on this machine just the 3dmark 06 and thats deleted . All I have is Super Pi cineabench 32/64 bit .

On mygamer I have all the benchmarks but I wasn't discussing my gamer benchmarks .

The score I wrote is the only 3D mark score this pc will run 1 in imode 1 in dmode once without intel IGP at all. Thats it this is a browser. So I really don't care . just as long as its faster than AMD setups and it is .

Yeah, SB can also make you earn $173/hr with Google at home and nail hot chicks. Type legibly before you even attempt to troll. Shoo.

 

[Outrage]

I don't have any vantage bench mark on this machine just the 3dmark 06 and thats deleted . All I have is Super Pi cineabench 32/64 bit .

On mygamer I have all the benchmarks but I wasn't discussing my gamer benchmarks .

The score I wrote is the only 3D mark score this pc will run 1 in imode 1 in dmode once without intel IGP at all. Thats it this is a browser. So I really don't care . just as long as its faster than AMD setups and it is .

So the Intel igp is so bad that you need a discrete video card just to browse the internet? you should buy a llano for your next browser.

 

[Nemesis 1]

What are you talking about . Clueless much? The only time the NV 560Ti is used is when gaming or benchmarks. Other than that Intels IGP does great the work . Same as llano it does fine in 2D but 3D is nothing special . Fact is its amusing to see so many pushing low end graphics as a gaming machine ' Llano in games is better than Intel IGP in games . But neither are good enough.
But you can debate that as you will. I win either way . When Ivy Bridge arrives and its faster than LLano in graphics. Than your debate turns against ya . As lllano is all gamer. If it gets wiped by IB iGP . It doesn't matter if trinity is faster as IB will be good enough your own words . I taking the stand that Llano isn't good enough will still be singing the same song . Its not good enough . Were you guys will be changing what you say . Only 1 truth here and to show that truth I need only wait for IB. For the message you guys spread about llano to change when intel is at llano 3D levels +.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Your living in a make believe world that was just recently created . Llano has no real gaming power

Lol. LLano has WORLDS MORE "real gaming power" than Intel's IGP. IGP versus IGP, AMD wins hands-down by delivering actual playable framerates in games where Intel does not.

Edit: You can tell how scared the Intel fanbois are, by how much they post about a competitor's chip.

 

[Lonbjerg]

Lol. LLano has WORLDS MORE "real gaming power" than Intel's IGP. IGP versus IGP, AMD wins hands-down by delivering actual playable framerates in games where Intel does not.

Edit: You can tell how scared the Intel fanbois are, by how much they post about a competitor's chip.

I swear, I am going to slap the next one using the term "gaming power" about Llano...it might be WAY better than anything Intel has...but that dosn' mean it's worth anything in real world gaming...it's still a joke in regards to gaming.

Drop the PR and return to the real world.

This is worse than having to read console fanboys thinking that their crapbox is on par with a PC in gaming :thumbsdown:

 

[OCGuy]

I swear, I am going to slap the next one using the term "gaming power" about Llano...it might be WAY better than anything Intel has...but that dosn' mean it's worth anything in real world gaming...it's still a joke in regards to gaming.

Drop the PR and return to the real world.

This is worse than having to read console fanboys thinking that their crapbox is on par with a PC in gaming :thumbsdown:

Pretty much this.

 

[Jionix]

But, someone was talking about how Intel has improved their IGP greatly since GMA3000 to the HD 3000, and how Intel will continue to improve.

AMD still has a gigantic lead. If we take Llano and HD 3000 as the start of the IGP race, give the next generation Llano and Haswell, who do you think will win that battle? If you say Intel, you are on crack.

This whole debate keeps getting muddled by fanboyism. I keep hearing the Intel crowd saying "Oh, who cares if Llano is faster? It still sucks". Really? That is the most asinine thing I have ever heard.

The Intel crowd is just afraid of comparing graphics performance of IGPs because Intel can't compete. AMD is leagues ahead of Intel, in both graphics performance and driver performance. Intel doesn't even support the current graphics standards (DX11), their OpenGL support is absolute garbage, and unless Intel throws massive amounts of money at this, it isn't going to change.

 

[ieatdonuts]

Hope this isn't too out of date to revive

Anyways I have a question. Is possible/likely that Haswell will be entirely homogenous?

The 256 bit AVX extensions are said to be useful for graphics and parallel processing - but how are those extensions to be used if the CPU and GPU were to remain separate?

Sandy Bridge processors already do 100 GFLOPS and through improvements in architecture and the die shrink 500 GFLOPS isn't out of the question.

Hope someone can shine some more light on how Haswell thereotically could work

 

[n0x1ous]

But, someone was talking about how Intel has improved their IGP greatly since GMA3000 to the HD 3000, and how Intel will continue to improve.

AMD still has a gigantic lead. If we take Llano and HD 3000 as the start of the IGP race, give the next generation Llano and Haswell, who do you think will win that battle? If you say Intel, you are on crack.

This whole debate keeps getting muddled by fanboyism. I keep hearing the Intel crowd saying "Oh, who cares if Llano is faster? It still sucks". Really? That is the most asinine thing I have ever heard.

The Intel crowd is just afraid of comparing graphics performance of IGPs because Intel can't compete. AMD is leagues ahead of Intel, in both graphics performance and driver performance. Intel doesn't even support the current graphics standards (DX11), their OpenGL support is absolute garbage, and unless Intel throws massive amounts of money at this, it isn't going to change.

And yet it doesn't matter, because anyone who is going to play any type of 3D game on their PC is not going to be happy with Llano's performance. People who have always used IGP's (only) in the past don't play PC games and giving them better baseline performance isn't going to change that.

Anyone gaming on a PC (sans stupid Facebook crap) has a discrete GPU.

Llano gets DEMOLISHED on the cpu performance side and thats what the both devices are Primarily....CPU's......Any user can appreciate the faster CPU performance, a small subset notice the graphics.


For Gaming Intel CPU + AMD or NV GPU > AMD CPU/APU + AMD GPU or NV GPU

 

[jvroig]

And yet it doesn't matter, because anyone who is going to play any type of 3D game on their PC is not going to be happy with Llano's performance. People who have always used IGP's (only) in the past don't play PC games and giving them better baseline performance isn't going to change that.

It's hard to state absolutes, because none of us know everybody in the supposed target audience.

Only anecdotal, but a friend of mine asked me to help him build a new PC, his was at least 5 years old (probably more). All he got (because it was all that could fit in his budget) was a GT 220.

Few days later, he thanked me through a text message, saying "it plays L4D2 perfectly!". He's hoping it will play Diablo 3 just fine. Far as I know, his monitor is 1024x768.

The point is that none of us here can claim monopoly of understanding of the entire "market" these things were made for. Not everybody needs/wants to play on hi-res, max settings, 16xAA and AF.

For that friend of mine, had Llano existed 2 years ago, that's what he would have gotten, same or better performance (I would wager on better, but I can't be sure and don't want to look at benches now, because it isn't the point). That Llano has now made games playable at low-res means people like my friend can now rely on "IGPs" for their needs and not bother with a discrete card.

Since he plays games just as often as you and me (every night, far as I know), and plays the same types of games (L4D2, looking forward to Diablo 3, etc), would you exclude him from the "gamer" definition just because he is satisfied with low-res?