Question Haswell / delid woes

[Iznougoud]

Not that long ago I came across two Haswell CPUs; an i5 4460 and an i5 4670K - both running uncomfortably hot, even under relatively light load (90 - 100 degrees celsius when stress testing, i.e. Prime95). Rather than buying adequate aftermarket cooling solutions, I went for the more cost efficient option, and decided to delid both CPU:s.

After the delid the 4460 doesn't exceed 72 degrees celsius when stress testing and rarely goes any higher than 60 degrees outside stress testing. So I would consider the result a success.

The 4670K, however, is a different story entirely. Although not worse, there's only marginal improvement (a couple of degrees) and - for some reason the cores differ wildly, which would suggest a botched delid. I have however re(!)delidded the 4670K 3 times by now, with roughly the same result.

In both cases (pun not intended, but appreciated just the same) I've used "liquid metal" for thermal paste.

Any thoughts on this?

 

[DrMrLordX]

Check the gap between the underside of the IHS and the die on the 4670k. In some cases, when performing a delid, you actually have to grind the IHS uniformly on the underside edges (where it makes contact with the PCB) to lower that gap. 4670k was probably using a good bit of TIM underneath the lid to bridge that gap.

 

[Arkaign]

To add to what Mr X has so accurately said, your stock 4670 IHS may be of poor quality as well. They vary pretty widely, and if you want something machined and measured to be a solid improvement over stock and ready for high performance, then picking up one of these might be your ticket. Obviously only you can decide if dropping $23+ on a 4670 is worth it of course.

https://rockitcool.myshopify.com/products/copper-ihs-for-lga-1150

The other option is to perhaps get one of Derbauers direct die shim and mount kits, which of course are even more demanding of precise pressure and evenness of mounting, and due to the shallowness of the mount height are most compatible with AIOs like Krakens and Corsair H1xx.

If you want to be sure it's your stock IHS that sucks though, clean up your current liquid metal application on both die and IHS, and generously fill the gap between CPU and inside of IHS with whatever decent thermal compound you have available, and you should see close to typical stock cooling performance (equalling at least 'good' Intel TIM results, but still far worse than copper flat IHS or direct die cooling)

 

[Iznougoud]

Thanks both for valuable input, and I can only agree with your conclusion that the most likely culprit would be the IHS.

As for now I'm using the 4460 which is surprisingly close to the 4670K in performance (although this could of course be caused by the 4670K throttling when push comes to shove). Regardless I don't plan to throw any more money at either CPU, and might as well consider this an opportunity to experiment and, hopefully, learn from the experience. At this point in time I'm even one motherboard short, since the Asus-board it came with has a CPU socket with a number of severely bent pins.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Yeah old Haswell really isn't worth the money these days. I cut my teeth on delids with an old AMD A10-7700k that was cheap-ish (at the time). Looks like most future CPUs are going back to solder which means I probably won't be delidding much anymore, though der8auer actually shows that delids can still be kinda easy in some of his videos. Sort of.

 

[EliteRetard]

Is there some reason you can't take the IHS from the 4460 and try it on the 4670k?

 

[Iznougoud]

Just a brief update, should anyone be interested: I've tried different approaches to applying liguid metal as well as "ordinary" thermal paste, with little success. I've also noted what seems to be two or three minor "scratches" on the chip which probably affects the thermally conductive area against the lid, wether this is damage done on the factory line or added by the previous owner, I do not know. Regardless I've found a thick(!) layer of liquid metal to yield the lowest - or rather least extreme - temperatures, and I will run with that for as long as the chip can take it.

For now Prime95 max out the 4670K at around 89 degrees Celsius after 10 minutes or so, which is almost 20 degrees more than the 4460, so my conclusion is that the chip simply isn't quite up to snuff, so to speak.

Another note is that all testing has been done with Intels stock cooler, which obviously isn't that great. Then again, from my limited experience, the Haswell chips doesn't exactly seem to be the pinnacle of engineering either

Again, thanks everyone for your input.

 

[EliteRetard]

Just a brief update, should anyone be interested: I've tried different approaches to applying liguid metal as well as "ordinary" thermal paste, with little success. I've also noted what seems to be two or three minor "scratches" on the chip which probably affects the thermally conductive area against the lid, wether this is damage done on the factory line or added by the previous owner, I do not know. Regardless I've found a thick(!) layer of liquid metal to yield the lowest - or rather least extreme - temperatures, and I will run with that for as long as the chip can take it.

For now Prime95 max out the 4670K at around 89 degrees Celsius after 10 minutes or so, which is almost 20 degrees more than the 4460, so my conclusion is that the chip simply isn't quite up to snuff, so to speak.

Another note is that all testing has been done with Intels stock cooler, which obviously isn't that great. Then again, from my limited experience, the Haswell chips doesn't exactly seem to be the pinnacle of engineering either

Again, thanks everyone for your input.

Is there a reason you don't change the heatsink?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B086WNPXVP/ref=twister_B01N1U2GL2?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

This gammaxx 400 v2 is $20, about as good as a CM212.

If you want to stick with the horrid push pins, the regular gammax has them (v1).

 

[Iznougoud]

Is there a reason you don't change the heatsink?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B086WNPXVP/ref=twister_B01N1U2GL2?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

This gammaxx 400 v2 is $20, about as good as a CM212.

If you want to stick with the horrid push pins, the regular gammax has them (v1).

 

[Iznougoud]

Other than space restrictions, not really. The reason I was using the stock cooler was primarily to provide a base for comparison between the two CPU:s I delidded. I have an aftermarket cooler which will use for the 4670K eventually, but I'm not expecting any miracles - 5 - 10 degrees at the very most, which would give me temps around and above 80 degrees celsius under load at stock settings(!). Hardly overclocking material, regardless of (readily available) cooling solution

 

[EliteRetard]

Other than space restrictions, not really. The reason I was using the stock cooler was primarily to provide a base for comparison between the two CPU:s I delidded. I have an aftermarket cooler which will use for the 4670K eventually, but I'm not expecting any miracles - 5 - 10 degrees at the very most, which would give me temps around and above 80 degrees celsius under load at stock settings(!). Hardly overclocking material, regardless of (readily available) cooling solution

Wouldn't be surprised if the difference was more like 25c, those stock intel coolers are garbage.

Now I'm curious, can I find a recent review anywhere...