Hasta Lavista Gasoline!

[Bitek]

Originally posted by: Spencer278

Originally posted by: jester79

Originally posted by: Spencer278

In AZ, there's talk of setting up solar collection panels to provide the electricity. It's one of the few benefits to living in the desert.

Which should just go on to the grid. To us solar power to turn the electricity into hydrogen would be a bad chose because solar power provides power during the same time frame that the max power usage.

The only time producing hydrogen would be econimicly and enviromentaly benifitial would be at a nuclear plant running in the middle of the night where it was producing excesive electricty and then it would make the most sence to burn the hydrogen on site to supplyment peck demand.

Who's to say that some of the electricity generated by solar panels wouldn't go back to the grid (if used in a large scale operation like how it sounds you're thinking of). I've searched azcentral.com for the article, but their search engine isn't bringing up what I'm looking for (I think they were hinting at using smaller, consumer-sized groups of cells to power the electrolytic process - but I'll keep searching).

I don't think that burning the hydrogen to produce electricity would gain much favor in AZ. As is the case elsewhere, no one wants a power plant in their back yard. Also, there's the problem with water shortages caused by both the drought and the population explosion here in the valley. While it's not affecting power plants now, planners are starting to take the water problem into consideration when trying to locate a new power source.

I assumed you where implying that the solar power could be used to produce hydrogen because that is what the thread is about. The problem with small scale production of hydrogen gas is that it would require some kind of a compresser and compressors to get hydrogen to a useful concentration will not be cheap.

I highly doubt solar power could provide anywhere near the amount of energy to make large-scale H2 production. IMO, the fuss over hydrogen power is largely a pipe-dream right now. H2 is touted as being pollution-free, but that completely ignores the inital parts of the equation (ie hydrogen production.) The only realistic way to do this right now is by coal-fired power plants. In the end you're not removing pollution, just mearly concentrating it around power centers. There is still a net gain of carbon into the atmosphere. So the question is if its economically and evironmentally sensible to rebuild our energy and transportation infrastructure for somewhat dubious gains. H2 isn't really going anywhere anytime soon.

According to Nova, GM has spent over $1B on H2 (not the hummer!) R&D. They are really looking at emerging markets (like China, India) to sell this to, as their energy infrastructure is not highly developed, so more sensible.


It would be a better for the gov to fund renewable energy resources like biomass conversion to fuel ethanol. All cellolose material (like farm waste, even office peper waste) can be coverted to ethanol, another clean-burning fuel. The huge advantage is that this process has no net increase in CO2, and makes available of material that is currently just burned or wasted, and producted domestically. Also could give farmers a second income source and make preserving farmland/open space more ecomically attractive.


Methanol is highly poisonous (causes blindness) and volitile. It would be far too dangerous to use as a commerical fuel like gasoline.

 

[quikah]

Some info from US DOE

http://www.eere.energy.gov/hydrogenandfuelcells/hydrogen/production.html


48% of current Hydrogen supplies are derived from natural gas. Who has the largest natural gas reserve? Russia. good thing the cold war is over.

 

[Geeyoff]

I think it's a good thing, because regardless of how much money this burns through in the near future (as in, next decade or two), it's at the very least increasing awareness. We're GOING to run out of oil, or at least oil will become so rare that it'll be prohibitively expensive. That's why hybrid cars are only a temporary solution (apart from, again, increasing awareness about energy problems.)

Biodiesel isn't a bad solution, either. The car smells like popcorn when it drives by! SO much better than stanky gasoline. The problem with it is that, currently, federal support for biodiesel development is such that the vegetable oil used to produce it mostly comes from overseas. The proper way to do it would be to grant tax breaks to restaurants who donate their used fryalator oil--way to go, Recycling. Obviously, paying domestic farmers to grow plants for the veggie oil would be a good thing, too.

--Geeyoff