Has the Republican Party sowed the seeds of its own complete destruction?

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

I still put it on Newt's Contract On America.

The GOP got Newtered.

 

[BoomerD]

I remain convinced that Dwight D. Eisenhower remains the last decent Republican to hold the office of President...and one of the best overall in the 20th century.

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

Ike was no saint either.

 

[BoomerD]

Ike was no saint either.

Jimmy Carter is probably the closest we’ve ever had to being a “saint.”

 

[gorobei]

there was a journalist on meet the press or one of the shows maybe over 10 years ago that argued that the conservatives had moved the overton window past the middle because the democrats had made concessions to republican positions to get deals done to keep the government working, that in order to gin up enough outrage to keep the right motivated to keep them in office the rep party had moved into far right extremist territory.

donOld gave voice to the extremists and accelerated the party's fall into maga territory.

the main question is what happens to the party, as there is only the maga faction and the old school reagan establishment type conservatives faction and maybe the free trade big business faction (the hawks/regimechange/anti rus-china-iran are out). there was sort of a balance that could be struck when the establishment held numbers advantage over the tea party wing, but now the maga wing will likely be even numbers with establishment while having the threat of primarying out any establishment rep that doesnt go along.
so who gets to keep the party name and brand? both wings need the combined numbers in order to have a majority in the congress or senate. if either breaks off to form a 3rd party they lose control of the committee chairs, and effectively lose power.

the establishment responsible government never-trumpers are not growing their numbers, so the best thing they can do is jump independent while they can still barter with both sides to buy their votes for a given bill. but short term thinking about re-election will always make them too cowardly to risk such a move.

the big problem is that at the state level maga is viable so they are fine with the rep party status quo. but anyone in a not solidly red state will be forced to pay lip service to the maga platform in order to get the funding and support of the party infrastructure which is normally worth something when not run by laura trump.

there needs to be enough elections where the dems win because of the abortion/proj2025/isolationism-appeasers issues for there to be a real change in the gop thinking. personally i hope the maga wing takes over the R brand as that will be the quickest way to force a change.

 

[Moonbeam]

Jimmy Carter is probably the closest we’ve ever had to being a “saint.”

That fucker implied that I might be suffering some sort of malaise. Sounds like some kind of a disease. Nobody but a communist or Anti-American would ever say anything negative a about we perfect Americans. The whole world knows we are exceptional, the greatest people who ever lived. And he threatened national security with his solar water heater. What a dumb shit. And the word on the street was that he was intellectually gifted and didn't know how to drink beer without sounding queer. Everybody loved Reagan because he was an imbecile, somebody with whom I could relate.

 

[Moonbeam]

Has the Republican Party sowed the seeds of its own complete destruction?​

Shouldn't that be "Has the Republican Party sown the seeds.......................................?

 

[nickqt]

there was a journalist on meet the press or one of the shows maybe over 10 years ago that argued that the conservatives had moved the overton window past the middle because the democrats had made concessions to republican positions to get deals done to keep the government working, that in order to gin up enough outrage to keep the right motivated to keep them in office the rep party had moved into far right extremist territory.

donOld gave voice to the extremists and accelerated the party's fall into maga territory.

the main question is what happens to the party, as there is only the maga faction and the old school reagan establishment type conservatives faction and maybe the free trade big business faction (the hawks/regimechange/anti rus-china-iran are out). there was sort of a balance that could be struck when the establishment held numbers advantage over the tea party wing, but now the maga wing will likely be even numbers with establishment while having the threat of primarying out any establishment rep that doesnt go along.
so who gets to keep the party name and brand? both wings need the combined numbers in order to have a majority in the congress or senate. if either breaks off to form a 3rd party they lose control of the committee chairs, and effectively lose power.

the establishment responsible government never-trumpers are not growing their numbers, so the best thing they can do is jump independent while they can still barter with both sides to buy their votes for a given bill. but short term thinking about re-election will always make them too cowardly to risk such a move.

the big problem is that at the state level maga is viable so they are fine with the rep party status quo. but anyone in a not solidly red state will be forced to pay lip service to the maga platform in order to get the funding and support of the party infrastructure which is normally worth something when not run by laura trump.

there needs to be enough elections where the dems win because of the abortion/proj2025/isolationism-appeasers issues for there to be a real change in the gop thinking. personally i hope the maga wing takes over the R brand as that will be the quickest way to force a change.

Traditional conservatives will rely on fascist movement fervor and attempt to coopt their base in an attempt to hold power without liberal or leftist compromise. They use mass politics and propaganda to spread their ideas to as many people as possible. Truth doesn't matter, only that the beliefs being spread to mass markets be adopted by enough people who come into contact with it.

Fascists, once given power by traditional conservatives, usually in a legitimate way, subtly or overtly contest conservatives and the state to hold onto power. They use nationalism and nationalist mythology, create in-groups and out-groups, and ally themselves with traditional elites/oligarchs, industrialists, and paramilitaries, once they make their play for full control. Once in control, they are able to direct the state to fund the party and the movement as their party becomes the state. This usually requires some kind of enabling act or legitimization by the state itself, whether a monarchy or entrenched aristocracy.

The background usually requires a classically liberal government to be deadlocked and the multiple leftist groups unwilling to make common cause to numerically retain/regain control of the Legislature(s). Typically, fascists were there to cause gridlock, but they always exist and they need an opportunity. They also need a charismatic leader who can act as an incarnation of the peoples' will. They are above the fray and allow followers to lodge complaints against lower-level party leaders while remaining hands-off with the Leader.

There's always tension within fascist movements/parties. Usually a few principled traditional conservatives will speak out against fascists, but they are usually few and far between because they have to get along to go along. Liberals and leftists should find common cause with principled conservatives, at least in the moment, to prevent the fascists from taking control. The military can also act as a brake on fascist movements taking over the state and government. A strong history of representative democracy can assist non-fascists, if they are willing to work together to prevent the fascist movement from taking over the state and government.

The best thing would be for traditional conservatives to fully understand that there is no "going back" without actual, real life bloodshed. Take your party back from the fascists and find common cause with people who you agree with on basic fucking things like the constitution, rule of law, and individual freedoms. Or you either get murdered in the night for speaking your mind by the people who you are going along with, or you become a collaborator and a co-defendant, assuming you survive.

I'd prefer sane conservatives to join the Democratic Party in name, force MAGA into lunatic minority status, and then the Democratic Party can split into a centrist-majority party keeping the Democratic Party name, with actual leftists creating a "Social Democrats"-esque plurality party driving politics in a progressive direction without the need for fascist authoritarianism as a "boot stamping on a human face- forever".

 

[BoomerD]

That fucker implied that I might be suffering some sort of malaise. Sounds like some kind of a disease. Nobody but a communist or Anti-American would ever say anything negative a about we perfect Americans. The whole world knows we are exceptional, the greatest people who ever lived. And he threatened national security with his solar water heater. What a dumb shit. And the word on the street was that he was intellectually gifted and didn't know how to drink beer without sounding queer. Everybody loved Reagan because he was an imbecile, somebody with whom I could relate.

Ronnie Rayguns governed by benefit of Nancy’s astrologer for most of his final term. He DID say good things about my beloved Corps though.

 

[Dave_5k]

Ronnie Rayguns governed by benefit of Nancy’s astrologer for most of his final term. He DID say good things about my beloved Corps though.

The two hundred or so killed in Beirut while on an undefined mission, followed up by a retreat with no retaliation, which ultimately helped lead to 9/11?

 

[BoomerD]

The two hundred or so killed in Beirut while on an undefined mission, followed up by a retreat with no retaliation, which ultimately helped lead to 9/11?

That was an ugly day…

 

[kage69]

I remain convinced that Dwight D. Eisenhower remains the last decent Republican to hold the office of President...and one of the best overall in the 20th century

I agree with the first part, but he made an ally's issue into the Vietnam War for us. That shouldn't have happened, kinda like Cheney and Rumsfeld using a moron and AWOL offender to take out Saddam, then help birth ISIS.

 

[HomerJS]

There is no chance unless Democrats pull a trifecta this Nov. If that happens Harris can begin dismantling that conservative grip on our lives.

Short answer is I hope so. Even if Dems get a trifecta they have to have the stones to break
Out the filibuster killing pen.

They will need it to bring back Roe and to fix voting rights.

I am concerned I’ve heard almost nothing from Harris/DNC telling voters how important it is to take the Senate. Absent that nothing gets done and people are still pissed at the Dems saying, “ nothing changes”

 

[BoomerD]

There is no chance unless Democrats pull a trifecta this Nov. If that happens Harris can begin dismantling that conservative grip on our lives.

Short answer is I hope so. Even if Dems get a trifecta they have to have the stones to break
Out the filibuster killing pen.

They will need it to bring back Roe and to fix voting rights.

I am concerned I’ve heard almost nothing from Harris/DNC telling voters how important it is to take the Senate. Absent that nothing gets done and people are still pissed at the Dems saying, “ nothing changes”

Even if the Dems pull off such a feat…don’t forget the USSC. They’ll do everything in their power to reign in Kamala and the Dems.

 

[HomerJS]

Even if the Dems pull off such a feat…don’t forget the USSC. They’ll do everything in their power to reign in Kamala and the Dems.

Codifying Roe into law has already been considered constitutional.
Voting Rights might by a struggle but worth the fight.

Also end Citizens United

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

^^^ And write in the authority for Government agencies to do their jobs to undo that reversal..

 

[cytg111]

Even if the Dems pull off such a feat…don’t forget the USSC. They’ll do everything in their power to reign in Kamala and the Dems.

Would there be a pathway for SC to strike down a reform of the court? An expansion of the court?

 

[brycejones]

Codifying Roe into law has already been considered constitutional.
Voting Rights might by a struggle but worth the fight.

Also end Citizens United

With the current court I don’t think a damn thing can be done about citizens united without an amendment or expanding the court.

Also end the filibuster as it works today and return it to its original form where a speaker had to keep speaking. Cloture votes would be simple majority.

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

I keep saying that the Court system as a whole needs a full scale, deep reform. But it has to be done with caution so it can't be abused.

 

[brycejones]

Would there be a pathway for SC to strike down a reform of the court? An expansion of the court?

I don’t see a way for the court to prevent expansion since the number of justices has changed overtime in the nations history. The current majority absolutely would strike down reforms.

For expanding the court just make it one justice for each circuit court.

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

We need a system where the Executive and Legislative branches can combine to override or overturn (Veto) Judicial Branch decisions.

But how do you prevent a Donny and GQP controlled Legislature from undoing good decisions?

 

[brycejones]

We need a system where the Executive and Legislative branches can combine to override or overturn (Veto) Judicial Branch decisions.

But how do you prevent a Donny and GQP controlled Legislature from undoing good decisions?

You are already there about why that isn’t a reform but a short road to authoritarianism.

Bad idea

 

[Thump553]

People have been saying this consistently for thirty years or so, and yet still the GOP manages to have pretty much a lock hold on the US for a clearly minority party. They are masters at exploiting the weaknesses of our present system, such as gerrymandering to extreme levels with the blessings of the courts.

 

[zinfamous]

Except a good 40% of that 51% is with them..

Don't forget Felice Schlafly and people like her.. and there are lots of them!

You think 40% of all women are actually OK with abortion being illegal?

You know that this is actually extremely unpopular among Republican women as well, right?

From where do you obtain your crack?

 

[zinfamous]

We need a system where the Executive and Legislative branches can combine to override or overturn (Veto) Judicial Branch decisions.

But how do you prevent a Donny and GQP controlled Legislature from undoing good decisions?

this is terrible, this idea