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Has the quality of public schools gone down in the past ~50 years?
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...and our time! jadinolf said, "...maybe we could have more dedicated (or smarter) teachers." THAT'S IT! And, he's right! Goddamn union protects the POS morons there today. Takes a flippin' act of Congress to get rid of one. You can't reward the good ones with bonuses or higher pay than their worthless coworkers. jadinolf offered a very viable possible reason for our current dilemma. What's yours? :|
The problem is obviously money. Washington D.C. only spends $13,187/yr per student. :roll:
http://ftp2.census.gov/govs/school/elsec02_sttables.xls
edit:fixed figure
http://ftp2.census.gov/govs/school/elsec02_sttables.xls
edit:fixed figure
Cerb
Elite Member
Management and parents. Parents let the school become what it is. But very few care. IMO, private schools ar enot better because they get better teachers, though they often do, but because the parents put their kids there because they care and generally allowed more influence.
Oh, don't forget tenure.
Oh, don't forget tenure.
Considering how much the world has changed and how "quick" the world moves I think our educationl system is doing OK. Room for improvment? Definatly. How? No easy solution comes to mind.
The system is just too big, there are so many people involved (admin:|), and social values have changed and are continuing to change. More money is my big generic solution, but people would rather spend it on bombs and planes.
The system is just too big, there are so many people involved (admin:|), and social values have changed and are continuing to change. More money is my big generic solution, but people would rather spend it on bombs and planes.
It's popular culture. On the kids' side you have phlegMTV and other image centers for the young and stupid telling them it's "kewl 2 b dum", on the parents' side you have a sense of entitlement and avoidance of responsibility for the little bastards. Everything is someone else's fault according to the society we live in, hence all the "it's bad teachers" replies this thread has seen. I wouldn't babysit the little monsters raised by today's parents for ~6 hours a day for what teachers make, and probably wouldn't for twice that to be quite honest.
So since the educational system is so hunky dory right now I guess we don't have to change anything then! Since the $13k doesn't seem to be working, maybe that's a sign we need to increase it. I think I'll add my own :roll:
Sorry but that's not how it works. Often problem students are grouped together, though wrong, it happens. And maybe one year a child's famliy life is nice and everything is going great. And then the next year maybe there's a divorce or a death or a layoff or any event that can hurt a family life. Then the child begins to act out in the classroom.
TitanDiddly
Guest
The problem is this: Stupid, arrogant people get laid.
Good lord, does that NOT seem like an obscene amount of money to you? That's the point! Throwing money at it has been tried and ain't fixing it!
Sorry, but that IS how it works! The exact same class of students listen to, and thrive with some teachers, yet wreak havoc in the classrooms of other teachers. Face it, some teachers suck bad, and thanks to their damn union, we can get rid of them!
I'll agree with you that there are many bad teachers out there, but how would you fix this? I say pour money into the system, raise teachers pay to an obscene amount and have people with masters and doctorates fight it out for these suddenly coveted jobs. I'm sure the US can afford.
Look at this chart
I wonder what would happen to eduction if the department of Education and the Department of defense traded budgets for a few years.
waggy
No Lifer
My wife worked as a teacher for a few years.
From what i can get out of her there are many problems with the education system.
1) parents that just do not care anymore. Both parents work 40+ hours a week, belong to clubs and such. So they have very little time for little johnny. So little johnny acts out in school and does not do his homework and the teacher gets the blame.
2) class size. Some teachers have 30-60+ children in the class. Now times that by 7 classes. That does not leave a LOT of time for one on one that many children need.
3) Funding. this kind of deals with #2. People are tired of paying a LOT for schools. Heck around here about 2 years ago people voted on a tax increase to give the local high school 4 Million to add on. well Last year they asked for another $55 Million to build a new high school. So not only would they have to pay off the loan for the add on but the new school. Needless to say it was shot down. But its not just the building. Have you looked at the books the school is using? some have many mistakes is disgusting.
4) The teachers Union. Man what a fricken group. The union does not care how the child is taught. IT just wants its money. I don't even think they care about the teachers. I'm sure others can fill in about it. I don't feel like linking and looking up the BS.
5) standardized testing. My wife was complaining about how these useless test were being forced on them. Well since the school is funded on how well they do they have to TEACH on how to take the test. She spent a good deal of time on the test. AT the expense of actually learning something useful.
6) In many areas teachers are not allowed to chose what/how they are to teach. They have to fallow a set of rules the school has. Many schools are testing a bunch of crap to see if it works. WELL it does not. Go back to the three R's.
7) NOW you have to not only to try to teach little johnny but you have to build his self-esteem. So even though he can't spell or add you have to make him feel as smart as the nerd next to him.
sigh i think thats enough. I wont go into the BS about teachers only working 180 days a year. Many people do not know they still have to go and take classes and such every year. or how long the workday really is.
My wife just could not deal with the BS. Not just from the students and there parents but from the school board as well. How it is today really scares me. I wonder how it is going to be when my 2 year old gets to school? Heck the school my sister-in-law goes to canceled the advanced classes. There was to many people in the slow class and people were complaining about having the extra class just for a few students. So now they are all in one class. yeah great idea.
From what i can get out of her there are many problems with the education system.
1) parents that just do not care anymore. Both parents work 40+ hours a week, belong to clubs and such. So they have very little time for little johnny. So little johnny acts out in school and does not do his homework and the teacher gets the blame.
2) class size. Some teachers have 30-60+ children in the class. Now times that by 7 classes. That does not leave a LOT of time for one on one that many children need.
3) Funding. this kind of deals with #2. People are tired of paying a LOT for schools. Heck around here about 2 years ago people voted on a tax increase to give the local high school 4 Million to add on. well Last year they asked for another $55 Million to build a new high school. So not only would they have to pay off the loan for the add on but the new school. Needless to say it was shot down. But its not just the building. Have you looked at the books the school is using? some have many mistakes is disgusting.
4) The teachers Union. Man what a fricken group. The union does not care how the child is taught. IT just wants its money. I don't even think they care about the teachers. I'm sure others can fill in about it. I don't feel like linking and looking up the BS.
5) standardized testing. My wife was complaining about how these useless test were being forced on them. Well since the school is funded on how well they do they have to TEACH on how to take the test. She spent a good deal of time on the test. AT the expense of actually learning something useful.
6) In many areas teachers are not allowed to chose what/how they are to teach. They have to fallow a set of rules the school has. Many schools are testing a bunch of crap to see if it works. WELL it does not. Go back to the three R's.
7) NOW you have to not only to try to teach little johnny but you have to build his self-esteem. So even though he can't spell or add you have to make him feel as smart as the nerd next to him.
sigh i think thats enough. I wont go into the BS about teachers only working 180 days a year. Many people do not know they still have to go and take classes and such every year. or how long the workday really is.
My wife just could not deal with the BS. Not just from the students and there parents but from the school board as well. How it is today really scares me. I wonder how it is going to be when my 2 year old gets to school? Heck the school my sister-in-law goes to canceled the advanced classes. There was to many people in the slow class and people were complaining about having the extra class just for a few students. So now they are all in one class. yeah great idea.
I taught eurhythmics in a Waldorf school for a while. Do a little more research, you may want to rethink that.
For example . . .
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