Has the fact that YOU AND I killed and tortured at least 50,000 Iraqis diminished the damage caused by Osama and 9.11

[dahunan]

violence will beget more violence

 

[Genx87]

At least 50K eh? I'd like to see this source for information.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Genx87
At least 50K eh? I'd like to see this source for information.

Sure you would, but then again you probably know we pretend no numbers actually exist by making sure we never count their dead.

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: Genx87
At least 50K eh? I'd like to see this source for information.

IIRC, Bush even accepted that number as legit

Take your pick for credible sites
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=bush+50%2C000+iraqi+dead&btnG=Google+Search

 

[thraashman]

War is wrong. Pre-emptive war is murder. Throughout all of history everyone who has ever engaged in a "pre-emptive war" has later been called a tyrant, a conqueror, or an imperialistic nutjob.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: dahunan
Has the fact that YOU AND I killed and tortured at least 50,000 Iraqis diminished the damage caused by Osama and 9.11

At this point, the number of American troops killed in Iraq is approaching that of all of those who died in the World Trade Center on 9-11. That doesn't take into account those who died in other than combat circumstances or the tens of thousands of Iraqi civilian deaths or the tens of thousands of American wounded.

Get this straight. * I * didn't kill anyone. I've opposed the war in Iraq since day one. George W. Bushwhacko ordered the killing in the name of the American people, and he did it all based on lies.

I don't blame those who believed him and followed his lead, as long as they've figured him out by now. I do blame those remaining idiots who still spout his lies.

I'd love to see the entire Bush adminstration tried and convicted for treason and ushered off to their accomodations at the loverly downtown Guantanamo Hilton. :|

Who's Watching Over Who's Watching Over You?

All the forces of war were compelling,
And blacker than Colin, the Knight,
And the lies they were telling, they sell in the name of their savior.

They silence the voices arising,
From those who would show us the light.
With their guys with their spies in the skies watching you and your neighbor.

 

[alien42]

Originally posted by: Genx87
At least 50K eh? I'd like to see this source for information.

50k is more then likely a lot less then the real numbers.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: alien42

Originally posted by: Genx87
At least 50K eh? I'd like to see this source for information.

50k is more then likely a lot less then the real numbers.

50K Iraqi's may have been killed; To attempt to insinuate that is was the Americans that killed that many does injustice to the service ment who are over there.

The hatred and tribal anomisity that was pent up has been allowed to express itself.

Iraqi vs Iraqi deaths should not coiunt unless you wish to look at the deaths that happened prior to the conlfict.

You might as well count the deaths in all the Muslim world caused by radicals as "Bush's fault" then. After all, the Americans triggered the hatred therefore according to your reasoning, we should be at fault for deaths 10K miles away in Indonesa and the Phillipines.

 

[Todd33]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper

50K Iraqi's may have been killed; To attempt to insinuate that is was the Americans that killed that many does injustice to the service ment who are over there.

Great, more "you hate the troops" responses to genuine criticism. Rumsfeld applauds you.

 

[yllus]

Originally posted by: thraashman
War is wrong. Pre-emptive war is murder. Throughout all of history everyone who has ever engaged in a "pre-emptive war" has later been called a tyrant, a conqueror, or an imperialistic nutjob.

Israel struck first in the 1967 Six Day War when it was obvious that Egypt and Syria were massing forces on the border to attack. Older disputes about land aside, that was justified.

Questions:

1. Is the Cold War-era of deterrence (mutually assured destruction) viable when the actors are not other nations or identifiable as a group, and do not fear death to ensure that their actions are checked?

2. Regarding those who have already pledged to take up arms against the West, to quote Vice-President Cheney: "There is only one way to protect ourselves against catastrophic terrorist violence, and that is to destroy the terrorists before they can launch further attacks against the U.S." Agree/disagree?

 

[Krakn3Dfx]

Originally posted by: Todd33

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper

50K Iraqi's may have been killed; To attempt to insinuate that is was the Americans that killed that many does injustice to the service ment who are over there.

Great, more "you hate the troops" responses to genuine criticism. Rumsfeld applauds you.

To be fair, if I was a soldier in Iraq, I'd probably be putting a bullet in anything that moved myself, you just don't know who is trying to shake your hand and who is trying to blow you up. Which is all the more reason why we shouldn't be there at all. Iraqis aren't going to love us any more than the day when we're out of their country.

 

[Krakn3Dfx]

I meant to vote No on the first one, but I'm easily confused. Not sure if anyone can see who voted which way...just wanted to point out I'm No on the first one .

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: dahunan
IIRC, Bush even accepted that number as legit

And I accepted the fact that your OP is a troll, but I gave it an honest answer.

As for the value of your OP, my vote is... :thumbsdown: :frown: :thumbsdown:

 

[jrenz]

Iraqis aren't going to love us any more than the day when we're out of their country.

How many of them have you talked to? I wasn't aware you had been over there.

 

[bobdelt]

I havent killed or tortured any Iraqi's, which means you have killed or tortured 50,000 of them. WTF have you been doing!?

 

[Schadenfroh]

Originally posted by: bobdelt

I havent killed or tortured any Iraqi's, which means you have killed or tortured 50,000 of them. WTF have you been doing!?

Probably watching CNN.

 

[LunarRay]

Iraq was a sovereign nation the day we invaded. We invaded with out the 'blessing' of the UN Security Counsel and in violation of the UN Charter which is a treaty we signed. There was no legitimate defensive reason to invade Iraq. The Charter may have enabled Israel to invade Iraq IF they had the exigent circumstance of invasion to defend their country.. which they did not..

The ACT of Invasion against Iraq was and is Criminal! ALL deaths occurring as a result of the ACT of Invasion are on the shoulders of the Human Rights Violators who perpetrated the ACT. The Hague should have held trials and the American House of Representatives should have started Impeachment Hearings... which they did not...

The Criminal acts of the few are not borne on the backs of the many... We did not murder the 50,000 Iraqi nor did the Military folks who were the instrument of the criminals.... The ones with the power to order folks to effect death and havoc are the ones best labeled as ..... "Innocent by reason of Insanity" the apathy of the World to not call them Criminals forces the only term appropriate, IMO.

 

[GoPackGo]

Originally posted by: dahunan
violence will beget more violence

So what do you do? Nothing?

 

[compuwiz1]

What's this YOU and I crap?
I have not personally killed one person, and I did not vote for Bush! :|

 

[GTaudiophile]

Only 50,000???

Damn, not enough!

 

[wazzledoozle]

Ban for trolling.

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: wazzledoozle
Ban for trolling.

It isn't trolling fool... by being complicit in this war, every one is responsible for those deaths.. those deaths WOULD NOT HAVE OCCURRED had it not been for this war. Get out of denial.

 

[wazzledoozle]

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: wazzledoozle
Ban for trolling.

It isn't trolling fool... by being complicit in this war, every one is responsible for those deaths.. those deaths WOULD NOT HAVE OCCURRED had it not been for this war. Get out of denial.

I didnt vote for bush, actually I cant legally vote yet. I am not the one who ordered the invasion, you need to get your ****** straight and stop placing fault on the citizens of a nation for the actions of their government. The US has been hijacked by the Bush and his PNOC buddies, we are complacent only in that we have no course of action to take. Feel free to pick up a gun if you wish, but you will only get sent to a secret prison and never seen again.

 

[Adfaw]

First off, this thread is a flaming thread right from the topic line. I think placing 50,000 lives on the shoulders of people who had no hand in the decision making is a little crude dude. Serously, I can't think of anything people in america and other countries get more heated about than these fueds over the war in Iraq. When I was in Argentina for a year that's all they wanted to talk to me about. Bush and the war and how evil they thought we were. My problem is that we did find some anthrax and there have been evidences of biological weapons found in those countries. If we don't do something who will? Do we just wait till we lose fifty thousand people to fight back? I guess I don't understand. True, some of the things going on overseas are less than pleasing and I'd like to see some things changed, but it's far from the torture chambers of the medieval period.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: yllus

Originally posted by: thraashman
War is wrong. Pre-emptive war is murder. Throughout all of history everyone who has ever engaged in a "pre-emptive war" has later been called a tyrant, a conqueror, or an imperialistic nutjob.

Israel struck first in the 1967 Six Day War when it was obvious that Egypt and Syria were massing forces on the border to attack. Older disputes about land aside, that was justified.

The Six-Day War (Hebrew: ????? ??? ????? transliteration: Milkhemet Sheshet HaYamim, Arabic: ??? ?????? ????? transliteration: harb al-ayam as-sita), also known as the 1967 Arab-Israeli War, Six Days' War, an-Naksah (The Setback), or the June War, was fought between Israel and the Arab states of Egypt, Jordan, Iraq, and Syria. When Egypt expelled the United Nations Emergency Force from the Sinai Peninsula, increased its military activity near the border, and blocked access of the Strait of Tiran to Israeli ships, Israel launched a pre-emptive attack on Egypt's airforce fearing an imminent attack by Egypt. [1] [2][3] [4] [5] [6] [7] Jordan in turn attacked the Israeli cities of Jerusalem and Netanya. [8] [9] At the war's end, Israel had gained control of the Gaza Strip, the Sinai Peninsula, the West Bank, and the Golan Heights. The results of the war affect the geopolitics of the region to this day.





Questions:

1. Is the Cold War-era of deterrence (mutually assured destruction) viable when the actors are not other nations or identifiable as a group, and do not fear death to ensure that their actions are checked?

2. Regarding those who have already pledged to take up arms against the West, to quote Vice-President Cheney: "There is only one way to protect ourselves against catastrophic terrorist violence, and that is to destroy the terrorists before they can launch further attacks against the U.S." Agree/disagree?