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Has technology stagnated

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Clock speed has not increased in the past 5 or 6 years.

2004 - 3ghz
2011 - 3 or 4 ghz

It seems that instead of increasing the core speed, intel and amd are trying to streamline their cpus to work more efficient and adding more cores and faster cache.

The cpu on my home computer is a 2.6 ghz quad core, which is slower then the 2.8 ghz single core cpu the quad core replaced.

:facepalm:
You have heard about turbo boost or instructions per cycle (IPC)? Well turbo boost makes one core run faster when only a single thread is being used. So even though a processor might be running at 2.6 with four cores when it's using one thread it boosts the one core to 3+ ghz and now even up to 4 ghz. So no your single core running at 3.0 isn't even close. Also a new processor will calculate more instructions per cycle. So even though both might run 3.0 the new processor will be calculating more IPC and will be way faster even though clockspeeds are the same.
 
Stagnated is the wrong word for it. A lot of people do however think that we've picked off all of the low-hanging fruit and at this point, in order to make big technological leaps, massive amounts of time, money and collaboration are required:

The Wall Street Journal - The Difficulty of Making New Discoveries

Last weekend, my Head Case column explored the increasing importance of scientific teamwork:

Benjamin Jones [an economist at Northwestern] has found that scientific teams have become a far more important part of intellectual production. By analyzing 19.9 million peer-reviewed papers and 2.1 million patents, Mr. Jones and his colleagues at Northwestern were able to show that teamwork is a defining trend of modern research. Over the last 50 years, more than 99% of scientific subfields, from computer science to biochemistry, have experienced increased levels of teamwork, with the size of the average team increasing by about 20% per decade.

This shift is even more pronounced among influential papers. The most cited studies in a field used to be the product of lone geniuses, Mr. Jones has shown, but the best research now emerges from groups. It doesn’t matter if the scientists are studying particle physics or human genetics. Papers by multiple authors receive more than twice as many citations as those with one author. This trend is even more apparent when it comes to “home run papers”—those publications with at least 1,000 citations—which are more than six times as likely to come from a team.

One explanation for this shift is the necessity of interdisciplinary collaborations: the most complex problems can no longer be solved by people with expertise in a single field. However, there is another related possibility: science is getting harder. Last year, Samuel Arbesman, a research fellow at Harvard Medical School, published a paper in Scientometrics that documents the increasing difficulty of scientific discovery. By measuring the average size of discovered asteroids, mammalian species and chemical elements, he was able to show that, over the last few hundred years, these three very different scientific fields have been obeying the exact same trend: the size of what they discover has been getting smaller.

Consider asteroids. According to the data, the average diameter of newly discovered asteroids in 1850 was about 250 miles across. By 1950, that size had decreased to about 10 miles, and by 2000 astronomers were forced to look for asteroids in the sky that were less than a mile in diameter. According to Arbesman, it’s not that asteroids are shrinking – it’s just that all the big ones have already been found. As a result, scientists are forced to search far and wide for smaller chunks of cosmic ice and rock.

The same trends hold true for animal species and new elements, which leads Arbesman to conclude that modern scientists must work harder to find new facts. Last year, he summarized the implications of his paper:

If you look back on history, you get the sense that scientific discovery used to be easy. Galileo rolled objects down slopes. Robert Hooke played with a spring to learn about elasticity; Isaac Newton poked around his own eye with a darning needle to understand color perception. It took creativity and knowledge to ask the right questions, but the experiments themselves could be almost trivial.

Today, if you want to make a discovery in physics, it helps to be part of a 10,000 member team that runs a multibillion dollar atom smasher. It takes ever more money, more effort, and more people to find out new things.

What does this have to do with scientific teamwork? The difficulty of modern science means that scientists must work together, pooling their resources and brainpower. They have to share expensive equipment and collaborate with colleagues in different domains. While the pace of discovery has remained fairly constant – we’re still finding new asteroids, for instance – the nature of what we’re discovering has led to dramatic changes within the scientific process.

I think it’s also interesting to contemplate these studies in light of Tyler Cowen’s recent e-book, The Great Stagnation, Cowen argues that our current economic problems are rooted in a larger innovation failure, as the outsized gains of the 20th century (in which living standards doubled every few decades) have given way to a growth plateau:

How did we get into this mess? Imagine a tropical island where the citrus and bananas hang from the trees. Low-hanging literal fruit — you don’t even have to cook the stuff. In a figurative sense, the American economy has enjoyed lots of low-hanging fruit since at least the seventeenth century: free land; immigrant labor; and powerful new technologies. Yet during the last forty years, that low-hanging fruit started disappearing and we started pretending it was still there. We have failed to recognize that we are at a technological plateau and the trees are barer than we would like to think. That’s it. That is what has gone wrong.

While Cowen proposes various fixes for this innovation stagnation, such as increasing the social prestige of scientists, I think it’s also worth contemplating the disturbing possibility that our cresting living standards might ultimately be rooted in the difficulty of making new scientific discoveries. After all, at a certain point the pursuit of reality is subject to diminishing returns – our asteroids will get so small that we’ll stop searching for them.

In his Scientometrics paper, Arbesman points out that, in a few rare instances, we’ve already reached this “end of discovery” phase. Consider medicine: For thousands of years, humans documented the discovery of new internal organs. But that process of discovery is over – the last new organ to be identified was the parathyroid gland in 1880. While we’re certainly not close to the end of science – so many profound mysteries remain – we should be prepared to work harder for what we learn next. All the low-hanging facts have been found.
 
gamers are about the only people i can think of that max out a machine. even then its getting silly.
Your only looking at the consumer market. Half the reason we get faster and faster CPUs and GPUs in the consumer market is because they're already being developed for professional applications. Creating more and more detailed 3D models, more realistic special effects and animation, calculating huge workloads to learn more about the universe, etc. These are the kind of things we need more processing power for.
 
Stagnated is the wrong word for it. A lot of people do however think that we've picked off all of the low-hanging fruit and at this point, in order to make big technological leaps, massive amounts of time, money and collaboration are required:
We just need something revolutionary to change everything. Battery chargers were exactly the same for the last million years until someone invented computers. Now we have computer-controlled battery chargers that charge faster than the previous ones and they don't screw up your battery if you leave them hooked up for a week. Future inventions will be the same way. Put a new technology (computer) on an old technology (battery charger) to create something great.
 
lol, why should vehicle fuel economy always be going up? You think that a given amount of combustive has an infinite amount of stored energy?
 
lol, why should vehicle fuel economy always be going up? You think that a given amount of combustive has an infinite amount of stored energy?

If we could eliminate the losses, gas mileage would be super duper high. Right now your brakes consume most of your energy because slowing the car down turns into heat. If it would get stored into something like a battery, gas mileage would go way up.
 
If we could eliminate the losses, gas mileage would be super duper high. Right now your brakes consume most of your energy because slowing the car down turns into heat. If it would get stored into something like a battery, gas mileage would go way up.

Toyota is doing that with regenerative braking on their Hybrids.
 
Toyota is doing that with regenerative braking on their Hybrids.
Exactly. So saying we're forced to have shitty gas mileage is completely wrong. If we eliminate losses like friction and braking, then gas mileage would improve a lot. The prius gets really good highway mileage because it has such a stupid ass shape. Trucks get horrendous highway mileage because they are as aerodynamic as a brick. In another thread someone said their truck would feel like it's losing control at 100mph because it felt like air was lifting the truck up.
 
lol, why should vehicle fuel economy always be going up? You think that a given amount of combustive has an infinite amount of stored energy?

Yes, isn't that the theory behind fission or fusion? "infinite amount of stored energy" - isn't that what makes the nuclear bomb go "boom"?

We have been using internal combustion engines for over 100 years, where are the new motors? Why haven't we broke out of the gas age and gone into the space age?

There "has" to be some kind of better fuel out there besides gasoline and diesel.


:facepalm:
You have heard about turbo boost or instructions per cycle (IPC)? <snip> So even though both might run 3.0 the new processor will be calculating more IPC and will be way faster even though clockspeeds are the same.

We have been in the 3ghz range for the past 7 years. Where are the 10ghz, 15ghz and 20ghz cpus?

Exactly. So saying we're forced to have shitty gas mileage is completely wrong. If we eliminate losses like friction and braking, then gas mileage would improve a lot.

Why are we even talking about gas mileage? Why are we still using technology that is over 100 years old?
 
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If we could eliminate the losses, gas mileage would be super duper high. Right now your brakes consume most of your energy because slowing the car down turns into heat. If it would get stored into something like a battery, gas mileage would go way up.

Yes, but even then there is a limit. I'm sure you already understand this, but if 1 gram of fuel contains 1 joule of stored energy, that is all you can ever hope to get out of it (considering only combustion).


Yes, isn't that the theory behind fission or fusion? "infinite amount of stored energy" - isn't that what makes the nuclear bomb go "boom"?

We have been using internal combustion engines for over 100 years, where are the new motors? Why haven't we broke out of the gas age and gone into the space age?

There "has" to be some kind of better fuel out there besides gasoline and diesel.

Well, that is something completely different.
 
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There's more to it than aerodynamics. You've got weight, gearing, rolling resistance from tires, older tech, but reliable and functional engines, ect. All things that make trucks functional for their intended purpose tend to hurt them when it comes to economy.
 
Yes, but even then there is a limit. I'm sure you already understand this, but if 1 gram of fuel contains 1 joule of stored energy, that is all you can ever hope to get out of it (considering only combustion).

On a frictionless surface, 1 joule is enough energy to move an aircraft carrier across the galaxy 😉
 
If anything we are moving too fast. Examples of moving too fast are all the pharmaceuticals that come out and have to be recalled, products that kill people because they are not tested fully in the rush to market. Products that are put in place because we can without thinking about if we should.
 
There "has" to be some kind of better fuel out there besides gasoline and diesel.

There is a wonderful fuel source, unfortunately our space program isn't up to the challenge anymore. China, India, even Russia are heading to the moon to mine it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helium-3

Even more surprising is that one reason for much of the interest appears to be plans to mine helium-3--purportedly an ideal fuel for fusion reactors but almost unavailable on Earth--from the moon's surface. NASA's Vision for Space Exploration has U.S. astronauts scheduled to be back on the moon in 2020 and permanently staffing a base there by 2024. While the U.S. space agency has neither announced nor denied any desire to mine helium-3, it has nevertheless placed advocates of mining He3 in influential positions. For its part, Russia claims that the aim of any lunar program of its own--for what it's worth, the rocket corporation Energia recently started blustering, Soviet-style, that it will build a permanent moon base by 2015-2020--will be extracting He3.

The Chinese, too, apparently believe that helium-3 from the moon can enable fusion plants on Earth. This fall, the People's Republic expects to orbit a satellite around the moon and then land an unmanned vehicle there in 2011.

Nor does India intend to be left out. (See "India's Space Ambitions Soar.") This past spring, its president, A.P.J. Kalam, and its prime minister, Manmohan Singh, made major speeches asserting that, besides constructing giant solar collectors in orbit and on the moon, the world's largest democracy likewise intends to mine He3 from the lunar surface. India's probe, Chandrayaan-1, will take off next year, and ISRO, the Indian Space Research Organization, is talking about sending Chandrayaan-2, a surface rover, in 2010 or 2011. Simultaneously, Japan and Germany are also making noises about launching their own moon missions at around that time, and talking up the possibility of mining He3 and bringing it back to fuel fusion-based nuclear reactors on Earth.

http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?do=main.textpost&id=33b0eb7d-2c1c-48b8-8ca7-1dcf2b6147f1
Scientists estimate there are about 1 million tons of helium 3 on the moon, enough to power the world for thousands of years. The He3 is mainly imbedded in an ore called ilmenite.

A space vehicle with a payload bay the size of a space shuttle could bring back enough helium-3 to generate the electricity to satisfy the United States' needs for a full year.
 
There "has" to be some kind of better fuel out there besides gasoline and diesel.
Nope, not really. Fossil fuels are dense and cheap. Other fuel types are either crappy or expensive. You can see this difference yourself if you buy an electric heat gun and compare it to a propane torch. To power a heat gun from a battery, you need a $50 car battery, you'll need about $20 worth of cables, then the heat gun was $35. So that's $105 for a portable electric heat source that weighs about 30 pounds. On Sunday I bought a propane torch for $20, it's less than 2 pounds, and it's a lot more powerful and hotter than a heat gun. Charging the battery might take half a day if you have a really good charger. Replacing the propane bottle takes 10 seconds.

Batteries are the only real alternative at this time, and batteries are still horrible or expensive. Lead batteries are cheap and they suck. Lithium batteries are very expensive.
 
Yes, isn't that the theory behind fission or fusion? "infinite amount of stored energy" - isn't that what makes the nuclear bomb go "boom"?

We have been using internal combustion engines for over 100 years, where are the new motors? Why haven't we broke out of the gas age and gone into the space age?

There "has" to be some kind of better fuel out there besides gasoline and diesel.
...
Not at all. Nuclear energy sources are very finite. You can just get a lot more energy from a given mass than you could through chemical interactions of a similar reactive mass.
The nuclear energy that's present in matter was originally put there during its formation - hydrogen and helium and a tiny bit of lithium from the Big Bang, and everything heavier than that formed in stars later on. But it's quite exceedingly short of "infinite power."


We have been in the 3ghz range for the past 7 years. Where are the 10ghz, 15ghz and 20ghz cpus?
I think they must've hit some kind of technical roadblock in terms of getting more hertz, which is why they just keep throwing in more cores.



Helium-3 on the Moon: One tiny little problem there, its density is extremely low. Retrieving a shuttle-bay-sized load of it wouldn't be a quick job. 1-50 parts per billion.
 
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Quote: We have been in the 3ghz range for the past 7 years. Where are the 10ghz, 15ghz and 20ghz cpus? I think they must've hit some kind of technical roadblock in terms of getting more hertz, which is why they just keep throwing in more cores.

I think from a programming standpoint, in the age of multitasking it's a lot easier to just assign a CPU and/or priority to an application and let each core handle a set of processes than have one single one sit there and trying to go alone with only faster cycle processing being it's benefit.
 
Yes, isn't that the theory behind fission or fusion? "infinite amount of stored energy" - isn't that what makes the nuclear bomb go "boom"?

We have been using internal combustion engines for over 100 years, where are the new motors? Why haven't we broke out of the gas age and gone into the space age?

There "has" to be some kind of better fuel out there besides gasoline and diesel.




We have been in the 3ghz range for the past 7 years. Where are the 10ghz, 15ghz and 20ghz cpus?



Why are we even talking about gas mileage? Why are we still using technology that is over 100 years old?

The main reason that processors haven't gotten to the 10ghz or 15ghz mark (I read this years ago even) is that as we are making processors smaller and smaller (small enough to make a human hair look thick), what's happening is we are reaching a physical boundary. Electrons(?) are beginning to randomly transport from one spot to another within the processor. We hit a physical roadblock so because we can't go faster in raw speed, we are making what we have more efficient and adding more (multi-core) so we can make the software itself more efficient. Just because raw clock speed hasn't gotten much higher doesn't mean speed hasn't gone up greatly. Compare a 3ghz P4 to a current processor. Even core for core, the newer CPU will blow the P4 out of the water because of new instructions, different configurations in the CPU pipeline, the way it processes information, etc.

We have 2 core phones with graphics capabilities that rival a PS2. I can't even imagine what's coming in the future years, will we have quad or hexa core phones that will be playing Xbox 360 games in our hand? Who knows. Hell, we've got 720p screens in our hands now, with 1080p soon to follow. 8 megapixel camera in back with a 3 megapixel camera on the front so you can have face to face conversations with people on the other side of the planet for next to nothing? 64+gb in our hands for movies, music, etc. Multi-Touch screen interfaces becoming the norm with better and better text prediction when typing. These are just small examples of things that are coming into there own and have in a relatively short amount of time.

When I was a kid, I cried because I wanted a SNES. Now kids have Xbox's and cry because there parents won't get them the latest iPhone or Android with a bigger touch screen than they have or a bigger TV because it's on sale. When I was a kid, multiplayer meant having a friend over. Now we can connect in seconds with people in China to play Call of Duty. When I was a kid, controllers had 6 buttons because there wasn't a need for more, now we have many more on our controllers to do things we couldn't years ago. Games used to be stored on cartridges that held mere megabytes if even that, now we have optical storage that can hold 8+ gigabytes. When I was a kid, hell when I was a teenager, I got a 27" Tube TV for Christmas that cost hundreds, and I was ecstatic about it. Now I have a 60" 1080p TV I paid well under a grand for, and a backup 50" 720p TV I picked up because somebody wanted something smaller for less than $200! 50" HDTV for less than $200!

BTW, I'm 24. And I can see all this in my short time here, I can't imagine what I'm going to see in the next 20 years, let alone my lifetime.
 
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BTW, I'm 24. And I can see all this in my short time here, I can't imagine what I'm going to see in the next 20 years, let alone my lifetime.

I am 43, when I was in elementary school, the school had 1 computer. To play a game, my buddies and I used to ride our bikes to the corner store, buy a coke, and put quarters in the arcade machine. Dong kong and space invaders were the games of the day.

When I finished high school in 1986, computers were still rare.

I remember the SNES, my family has one at the deer camp, and we still play it from time to time.

In late 1994 or early 1995 my wife and I bought or first computer. It cost around $1,200, had a 75 mhz cpu, 8 megs of memory, and windows 3.11.

Now my wife has a droid that cost a fraction of what that first system did, and the droid does a lot more.

In the mid 1990s, nobody ever thought technology would get to this point. I see a day when tablets replace laptops and maybe even desktops.
 
The main reason that processors haven't gotten to the 10ghz or 15ghz mark (I read this years ago even) is that as we are making processors smaller and smaller (small enough to make a human hair look thick), what's happening is we are reaching a physical boundary. Electrons(?) are beginning to randomly transport from one spot to another within the processor. We hit a physical roadblock so because we can't go faster in raw speed, we are making what we have more efficient and adding more (multi-core) so we can make the software itself more efficient. Just because raw clock speed hasn't gotten much higher doesn't mean speed hasn't gone up greatly. Compare a 3ghz P4 to a current processor. Even core for core, the newer CPU will blow the P4 out of the water because of new instructions, different configurations in the CPU pipeline, the way it processes information, etc.

We have 2 core phones with graphics capabilities that rival a PS2. I can't even imagine what's coming in the future years, will we have quad or hexa core phones that will be playing Xbox 360 games in our hand? Who knows. Hell, we've got 720p screens in our hands now, with 1080p soon to follow. 8 megapixel camera in back with a 3 megapixel camera on the front so you can have face to face conversations with people on the other side of the planet for next to nothing? 64+gb in our hands for movies, music, etc. Multi-Touch screen interfaces becoming the norm with better and better text prediction when typing. These are just small examples of things that are coming into there own and have in a relatively short amount of time.

When I was a kid, I cried because I wanted a SNES. Now kids have Xbox's and cry because there parents won't get them the latest iPhone or Android with a bigger touch screen than they have or a bigger TV because it's on sale. When I was a kid, multiplayer meant having a friend over. Now we can connect in seconds with people in China to play Call of Duty. When I was a kid, controllers had 6 buttons because there wasn't a need for more, now we have many more on our controllers to do things we couldn't years ago. Games used to be stored on cartridges that held mere megabytes if even that, now we have optical storage that can hold 8+ gigabytes. When I was a kid, hell when I was a teenager, I got a 27" Tube TV for Christmas that cost hundreds, and I was ecstatic about it. Now I have a 60" 1080p TV I paid well under a grand for, and a backup 50" 720p TV I picked up because somebody wanted something smaller for less than $200! 50" HDTV for less than $200!

BTW, I'm 24. And I can see all this in my short time here, I can't imagine what I'm going to see in the next 20 years, let alone my lifetime.



Indeed. This effect is called quantum tunneling. When the gate size of the transistor gets too small, you begin to have higher amounts of leakage current, resulting in lower current density being transported. There is technology out there now (graphene / carbon nanotubes) that have gates sizes that alleviate this problem more or less, but it is still many years off until we replace layers of silicon dioxide as the material of choice for CPU's.

http://www.fisica.unipg.it/~gammaitoni/fisinfo/documenti-informatici/physical-limits-silicon.pdf

See subsection 4.3.3: "Gate tunneling" for more
 
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