Has anyone ever changed their mind because of this forum?

[AmbitV]

First off let me say this post isn't meant to be pro/con any particular side.

I think there's a general consensus here that a thick fog of lies, idealism, disillusionment, jingoism, and cognitive dissonance permeates this forum. Just ask either side - they will tell just how true this is of the opposite side.

Every day the same old arguments are rehashed in whatever happens to be the latest hot button news story, with the usual suspect partisans taking the expected positions.

At the same time, the sheer amount of naivete, ignorance, and stupidity makes it very unlikely that rational argument will have any impact on the opposite side.

Yet everyday, the fiery, heated debates rage on.

My question is: has anyone here seriously ever changed positions on a major political issue? And I don't mean some minor thing, like you learned some new obscure fact. I mean actually did a complete 180 degree turnaround on the position you held.

If so, please cite the thread/post that changed your mind. Thank you.

 

[dahunan]

I like politicians even less and less.. but I hated them before this forum... Now I just dislike their supporters as much as them..

I honestly never realized how humans can turn into sheeple and cows so easily..

 

[raildogg]

This forum is not a source of actual news or hard information. Rather, its a distortion of news to fit their personal beliefs. It has been hijacked by the radicals, particularly on one side of the political spectrum. I just come to bring some sense into the false, baseless and often totally misleading threads. You could take almost all the people here and guess on which issue they will stand on and most of the time, or in some cases, all of the time, you will be correct. Noone breaks away from their political affiliation. Its really amazing. You could list all the issues and know what side a person will be on based on his or her's political or party views. This forum is like one of the cable debate shows, only more one sided.

 

[JustAnAverageGuy]

When you learn to ignore the obvious trolls and partisan hacks (on both sides) the forum becomes much more sane.

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: JustAnAverageGuy
When you learn to ignore the obvious trolls and partisan hacks (on both sides) the forum becomes much more sane.

:thumbsup:

This is the key. I long held out hope that some of the regulars might be convinced to discuss something rationally. Just so everyone knows - it's never worth the effort even trying. I have changed my mind on a couple issues long ago, but now this forum serves more as a reality check. It gives me insight into how people can actually believe their side of a position, something I wouldn't normally see from my side. In that regard, I see it as very useful. There is a gem of wisdom that comes along every so often that makes it worthwhile to continue visiting, plus the opportunity to attempt (usually in vain) to educate people on issues where ignorance abounds.

 

[nageov3t]

Originally posted by: AmbitV

My question is: has anyone here seriously ever changed positions on a major political issue? And I don't mean some minor thing, like you learned some new obscure fact. I mean actually did a complete 180 degree turnaround on the position you held.

yes, on gun control. I don't remember the thread, but another poster helped me see the issue from a totally different angle, which changed my feelings on the issue

 

[JustAnAverageGuy]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

Originally posted by: JustAnAverageGuy
When you learn to ignore the obvious trolls and partisan hacks (on both sides) the forum becomes much more sane.

:thumbsup:

This is the key. I long held out hope that some of the regulars might be convinced to discuss something rationally. Just so everyone knows - it's never worth the effort even trying. I have changed my mind on a couple issues long ago, but now this forum serves more as a reality check. It gives me insight into how people can actually believe their side of a position, something I wouldn't normally see from my side. In that regard, I see it as very useful. There is a gem of wisdom that comes along every so often that makes it worthwhile to continue visiting, plus the opportunity to attempt (usually in vain) to educate people on issues where ignorance abounds.

I'd put my list of people I ignore all the time, but the Mods wouldn't like it

That being said.

Some worthwhile quotes.

"If you think education is expensive, try ignorance." - Derek Bok, attributed

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

"If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all." - Noam Chomsky

"In political matters feeling often decides more correctly than reason." - Adolf Hitler

"No man ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American voter." - H.L. Mencken,

 

[nageov3t]

Originally posted by: JustAnAverageGuy

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

Originally posted by: JustAnAverageGuy
When you learn to ignore the obvious trolls and partisan hacks (on both sides) the forum becomes much more sane.

:thumbsup:

This is the key. I long held out hope that some of the regulars might be convinced to discuss something rationally. Just so everyone knows - it's never worth the effort even trying. I have changed my mind on a couple issues long ago, but now this forum serves more as a reality check. It gives me insight into how people can actually believe their side of a position, something I wouldn't normally see from my side. In that regard, I see it as very useful. There is a gem of wisdom that comes along every so often that makes it worthwhile to continue visiting, plus the opportunity to attempt (usually in vain) to educate people on issues where ignorance abounds.

I'd put my list of people I ignore all the time, but the Mods wouldn't like it

probably the same couple members that the rest of us try our hardest to ignore

 

[JustAnAverageGuy]

Originally posted by: loki8481

Originally posted by: JustAnAverageGuy

I'd put my list of people I ignore all the time, but the Mods wouldn't like it

probably the same couple members that the rest of us try our hardest to ignore

Very likely, but I also ignore certain people on my own "side" of the political spectrum as well.

 

[Proletariat]

I've been slowly changing my entire view on the whole war on terror/the religion of Islam recently... believe me its been pretty dicey.

I think it was mainly real life experiences and the news stories coming out of Iraq that initiated the shift, but some insightful posts by right-wingers here have been facilitating it as well. I am a total believer in the "know your enemy" philosophy and I genuinely thought I knew my enemy. Strangely it turns out that my enemy might be my friend and the true enemy might be somewhere else... a jarring thought indeed.

Keep in mind I'm a total leftist, just read some of the longer posts i actually put effort into.

 

[Tab]

Went from slightly right to slight left. I used to support the war and I now I don't.

 

[kogase]

Originally posted by: loki8481

Originally posted by: AmbitV

My question is: has anyone here seriously ever changed positions on a major political issue? And I don't mean some minor thing, like you learned some new obscure fact. I mean actually did a complete 180 degree turnaround on the position you held.

yes, on gun control. I don't remember the thread, but another poster helped me see the issue from a totally different angle, which changed my feelings on the issue

I'll second that. I don't know about you, but (and I hope this is considered appropriate) PrinceofWands changed my thoughts on the issue. It was a while ago, and in Off Topic, of all places. No one has changed any of my stances in P&N however. They may have given me a stance on an issue I had never known anything about.

 

[d3n]

yes, I like to think that there are many things I don't know about, just what I think I know.

 

[chrisms]

This forum is made up of paragraphs written by people who want to think they know something about a certain subject. For instance, I'm writing this write now to sound as if I know exactly what this forum is about. In reality I am talking out of my ass, as does everyone else in this forum. Use big words and make some sort of conclusion, and all of a sudden you're a political expert!

 

[randym431]

Has anyone ever changed their mind because of this forum?

Well, maybe making me a little less sane.

Main reasons people post is:
Bored.
Mad at something they read or heard.
Bored.

Main reasons people read posts:
Satisfy that gossip craving.
See if someone?s subject gets you hot and bothered.
Bored.

 

[Gaard]

I wouldn't say 'changed' per se.

On some issues, my views have been solidified if anything, simply because of the inane (imo) arguments offered by the opposition. (See statement by ntdz in my sig for an example.)

There have also been times where I've formed an opinion where none existed before. The whole Israel/Palestine issue for example. Without getting into specifics, thanks to the info/links shared here I can offer a slightly more informed opinion on the matter...whereas before it was simply "A bunch of religious nuts on both side killing each other."

There have also been times where members have obviously learned things that they didn't know. In many cases (actually in all the cases I've seen here), their views haven't been affected even though what they've learned would seem to be somewhat important in their opinion-forming. See EagleKeeper here and raildogg here for examples. When people refuse to let new info sway their views/opinions it tends to give the impression that they are hopeless, in regards to discussing the issues, because their branch will never bend, let alone break.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: AmbitV
Topic Title: Has anyone ever changed their mind because of this forum?
Topic Summary: political stance / major political issue.

Unlike most in here if I learn some new information I was not aware of and I was wrong, I admit it and have actually changed my mind on a couple of issues after learning the previously unknown information.

The major players on one side of the Political Spectrum call that "Flip Flopping" and use that as a tool to brainwash the Sheeple and it works.

Fortunately, or Unfortunately depending on which side you are on, the brainwashing waves have not been able to penetrate the apparent thick wrap of Tin Foil surrounding my thick skull. :laugh:

 

[JulesMaximus]

No, not because of this forum.

 

[aidanjm]

I haven't experienced dramatic changes in my points of view any particular issue, but I have been prompted to clarify my views on certain things.

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: Gaard
On some issues, my views have been solidified if anything, simply because of the inane (imo) arguments offered by the opposition. (See statement by ntdz in my sig for an example.)

There have also been times where I've formed an opinion where none existed before. The whole Israel/Palestine issue for example. Without getting into specifics, thanks to the info/links shared here I can offer a slightly more informed opinion on the matter...whereas before it was simply "A bunch of religious nuts on both side killing each other."

There have also been times where members have obviously learned things that they didn't know. In many cases (actually in all the cases I've seen here), their views haven't been affected even though what they've learned would seem to be somewhat important in their opinion-forming. See EagleKeeper here and raildogg here for examples. When people refuse to let new info sway their views/opinions it tends to give the impression that they are hopeless, in regards to discussing the issues, because their branch will never bend, let alone break.

Good post and totally accurate regarding some posters.

My change has been similar to Gaard's in a way. I haven't changed to other viewpoints because of their arguments, but because of their ignorance and outrageousness. For example, an ignorant poster who whines about public expenditures for the needy, not understanding that he is such a "needy" person or radical zealots fighting evolution. I used to think evolution should definitely be taught to these zealots and that my tax money go to help these ignoramuses. Now, because of posters on this board, I say let them get what they ask for. Let them go without healthcare and social security and proper education.

 

[cwjerome]

I used to think the same way: Give those foolish people what they claim to desire. But after a while I began thinking this was too cruel, even for them... after all, there is the 8th Amendment

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Usually what I see here validates my opinion.

 

[AmbitV]

Originally posted by: kogase

Originally posted by: loki8481

Originally posted by: AmbitV

My question is: has anyone here seriously ever changed positions on a major political issue? And I don't mean some minor thing, like you learned some new obscure fact. I mean actually did a complete 180 degree turnaround on the position you held.

yes, on gun control. I don't remember the thread, but another poster helped me see the issue from a totally different angle, which changed my feelings on the issue

I'll second that. I don't know about you, but (and I hope this is considered appropriate) PrinceofWands changed my thoughts on the issue. It was a while ago, and in Off Topic, of all places. No one has changed any of my stances in P&N however. They may have given me a stance on an issue I had never known anything about.

how did you guys change your position on gun control? From pro gun control to now against gun control?

 

[Dissipate]

Nobody has changed my mind on anything, because no one has been able to give me a convincing argument explaining why politics or political systems should even exist.

 

[Dissipate]

Originally posted by: dahunan
I like politicians even less and less.. but I hated them before this forum... Now I just dislike their supporters as much as them..

I honestly never realized how humans can turn into sheeple and cows so easily..

I've wondered the same thing. This book may be able to give some insight.

Also, I believe that people have been turned into sheeple so easily because they actually believe that the government has allowed them to escape the human condition of having to make subjective moral decisions. However, on the same token many people rabidly disagree with many of the things the government does. When this occurs they fall back on their belief in absolute governmental authority (see above) (i.e. even though they disagree with what the government does, they believe that they still must obey its edicts and support it financially).

This mental condition of not believing in the government's actions but still believing that one must go along with them is one of the most bizarre and most pervasive conundrums I have ever witnessed.

I was arguing with a guy in a chat room one time who was complaining about property taxes. I asked if he thought that he ought to still pay them and instead of saying no, he said yes. I asked him why he thought that he ought to pay taxes that he doesn't agree with, and he referred to the "rule of law." What he was implying was that the "rule of law" is an objective and absolute expression of the "will of the people," and disobeying it would be immoral.

This is just one example of the massive and pervasive political delusions people for thousands of years and today suffer from.