[Hardware Unboxed] R7 1700 @4Ghz + 3200Mhz RAm = ~7820X @4.5Ghz

[Crumpet]

As the title says.

In games Ryzen + high speed RAM (bearing in mind we can hit 3466Mhz+ with a Samsung B-die kit) gains massively and can equal and in cases outperform the Intel counterparts.

In certain productivity benchmarks the 7820X retains an advantage of 10-20%

The difference being, the 7820X works out at quite a bit more than twice the price.

 

[Anarchist Mae]

I think it's probably worth picking up a 1700x over a 1700:

AMD: 200,806 Ft
AMD Ryzen R7 1700: 96,218 Ft
MSI X370 SLI PLUS: 43,807 Ft
HyperX 16GB Predator DDR4 3200MHz CL16 KIT HX432C16PB3K2/16: 55,044 Ft

I've not actually verified that this memory is what you'd want to buy for Ryzen, it's just not the cheapest nor the most expensive.

Intel: 358,374 Ft
Intel Core i7-7820X: 185,583 Ft
MSI X299 SLI PLUS: 78,801 Ft
HyperX 16GB Predator DDR4 3200MHz CL16 KIT HX432C16PB3K2/16: 55,044 Ft
ARCTIC COOLING Liquid Freezer 360: 38,946 Ft

With the Intel CPU almost costing more than the entire AMD system it seems like an obvious winner. However hitting 4GHz on all cores of an R7 1700 is not a guarantee at least with the stock cooler, mine is not stable at 3.8GHz/1.4v.

So here's a more expensive AMD build that should be easier to overclock:

AMD 1700x: 244,628 Ft
AMD Ryzen R7 1700x: 106,831 Ft
MSI X370 SLI PLUS: 43,807 Ft
HyperX 16GB Predator DDR4 3200MHz CL16 KIT HX432C16PB3K2/16: 55,044 Ft
ARCTIC COOLING Liquid Freezer 360: 38,946 Ft

The 1700 and 1700x systems cost 56% and 68% of the 7820X. You may as well get the 1700x, and if money is tight skip on buying the water cooler for now.

 

[Crumpet]

HyperX Predator DDR4 3200Mhz CL16 - HX432C16PB3K2/16

Should be a single rank Samsung B-die kit, perfect for Ryzen.

As an aside, 3.8Ghz is the most you should feasibly expect from the stock cooler, grab an AIO or a high end air cooler ala Noctua for 4Ghz.

 

[Anarchist Mae]

HyperX Predator DDR4 3200Mhz CL16 - HX432C16PB3K2/16

Should be a single rank Samsung B-die kit, perfect for Ryzen.

Oh good! Er, how do you check this anyway?

As an aside, 3.8Ghz is the most you should feasibly expect from the stock cooler, grab an AIO or a high end air cooler ala Noctua for 4Ghz.

Yeah, I've ordered an Arctic Cooling Liquid Freezer 360

 

[Crumpet]

Oh good! Er, how do you check this anyway?

Yeah, I've ordered an Arctic Cooling Liquid Freezer 360

I normally take the product code and google it, so "HX432C16PB3K2/16 and Ryzen"

And see what results come up.

But that RAM is single rank, and has 16-16-16-35 latency, which I think means it should be Samsung memory, only true way to find out would be to remove the heatspreaders though.

 

[coercitiv]

But that RAM is single rank, and has 16-16-16-35 latency, which I think means it should be Samsung memory, only true way to find out would be to remove the heatspreaders though.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/62vp2g/clearing_up_any_samsung_bdie_confusion_eg_on/

 

[beginner99]

In games Ryzen + high speed RAM (bearing in mind we can hit 3466Mhz+ with a Samsung B-die kit) gains massively and can equal and in cases outperform the Intel counterparts.

There isn't anything new here. Problem is Skylake-X just sucks for gaming, if gaming is what you mostly do. Broadwell-e beat Syklake-x easily at lower clocks. maybe this will be fixed, maybe not.

The real counterpart to Ryzen 7 will be Coffeelake. Your better of with Ryzen, 7700k and almost certainly the best but most expensive choice the upcoming 8700k.

 

[SPBHM]

at the same clock 20W more than Ryzen and 60 more over Broadwell-e looks disappointing... the funny thing is that even with the big price reduction compared to 8c Broadwell-e it still looks totally overpriced thanks to Ryzen, even when you consider the higher OC.... to a point where even if the 7820X was being sold for the 7800X or even 7700K price it would still be questionable, given the higher cost of the platform

 

[wildhorse2k]

7820X is superior product to 1800X, but at much higher price than 1700X which can do almost the same. Intel products will always be more expensive than AMD as long as Intel has an advantage (customer trust, brand name, higher frequencies, less known bugs). Also keep in mind that 1800X pretty much means you can't upgrade for more powerful CPU. Some people don't like to be so limited and it is reason to pay extra to get Threadripper or X299.

If you are on tight budget then AMD always wins.

 

[Crumpet]

7820X is superior product to 1800X, but at much higher price than 1700X which can do almost the same. Intel products will always be more expensive than AMD as long as Intel has an advantage (customer trust, brand name, higher frequencies, less known bugs). Also keep in mind that 1800X pretty much means you can't upgrade for more powerful CPU. Some people don't like to be so limited and it is reason to pay extra to get Threadripper or X299.

If you are on tight budget then AMD always wins.

Is it? It's still around $200 more than an 1800X and on a more expensive motherboard...

 

[wildhorse2k]

Is it? It's still around $200 more than an 1800X and on a more expensive motherboard...

That motherboard has 4 channel memory, supports better CPUs and allows more M.2. If you decide to go that way you probably want those features otherwise you stick with X370...

 

[Crumpet]

That motherboard has 4 channel memory, supports better CPUs and allows more M.2. If you decide to go that way you probably want those features otherwise you stick with X370...

Then what about Threadripper 1900X, probably still works out cheaper but has more than double the PCIE lanes, and supports better (and cheaper) CPUs.

 

[wildhorse2k]

Then what about Threadripper 1900X, probably still works out cheaper but has more than double the PCIE lanes, and supports better (and cheaper) CPUs.

When it comes out... Some people may also be unhappy with 4x CCX instead of 2x on Ryzen 7. They would find Ryzen 7 perfect if it could use more memory and M.2.

 

[Crumpet]

When it comes out... Some people may also be unhappy with 4x CCX instead of 2x on Ryzen 7. They would find Ryzen 7 perfect if it could use more memory and M.2.

Those people would be reminded that the "CCX problem" really isn't a problem.

Care to move the goalposts any farther?

 

[Malogeek]

The point of the benchmarks and this thread is that with Ryzen paired with good high speed memory, the CCX "problem" isn't in fact a problem, as Crumpet mentions.

 

[wildhorse2k]

The point of the benchmarks and this thread is that with Ryzen paired with good high speed memory, the CCX "problem" isn't in fact a problem, as Crumpet mentions.

It isn't a problem for some people. But there are people who don't like when core count in CCX is reduced to 2. For what reason? Higher latency... You keep ignoring this and can end up with 1 core per CCX, claiming there is no problem with high speed memory. The advantage of Ryzen having low latency 4 cores is gone.

If someone can't understand why someone doesn't want to go down to 2 core CCXes then he can't understand the reason why one would go with Intel. Trying to shove Ryzen down everybodys throat won't do any good.

 

[Crumpet]

It isn't a problem for some people. But there are people who don't like when core count in CCX is reduced to 2. For what reason? Higher latency... You keep ignoring this and can end up with 1 core per CCX, claiming there is no problem with high speed memory. The advantage of Ryzen having low latency 4 cores is gone.

If someone can't understand why someone doesn't want to go down to 2 core CCXes then he can't understand the reason why one would go with Intel. Trying to shove Ryzen down everybodys throat won't do any good.

It doesn't need shoving down anyones throats, Ryzen is holding its own rather well in the Tech world and can speak for itself.

 

[Christopher Bohling]

The 1900X has fundamentally the same problem as Kaby Lake-X - that is to say, if you're already buying in to a high-end platform like X399 or X299, your CPU budget is probably higher. And if your CPU budget isn't higher, you should probably save money by going for the mainstream motherboard and then have more money to spend on things like a better GPU or more RAM or SSD capacity (depending on your intended use).

 

[coercitiv]

customer trust, brand name, higher frequencies, less known bugs

Since you keep repeating this customer trust and platform reliability from one thread to another, are you aware of what Avoton means for professionals working in the networking industry? Here, I'll give a hint: slow and certain death of your device. And they made sure it was kept under wraps as much as possible, understandably so from a business perspective.

Nvidia had bumpgate, Intel had their circuit degradation problems with their C2000 SoCs or the "recently" discovered hyperthreading bug on all Skylake CPUs except KBL-X, even Qualcomm messed up their Snapdragon 808 and 810 CPUs with units starting to fail left and right. All major vendors have their major s**t moments, so what exactly are you invoking when talking about "customer trust"? That customers easily forget and the bigger company "appears" more trustworthy?!

There's a reason we don't go about spreading FUD about Intel, Nvidia, AMD, Qualcomm and others based only on a recent problem they encountered or worse, on our perception of their brand. I'm sure you are both an experienced adult and a seasoned professional, so make an effort and acknowledge the difficulties engineers from all vendors have to face when developing such complex products in relatively short timelines.

 

[Crumpet]

The 1900X has fundamentally the same problem as Kaby Lake-X - that is to say, if you're already buying in to a high-end platform like X399 or X299, your CPU budget is probably higher. And if your CPU budget isn't higher, you should probably save money by going for the mainstream motherboard and then have more money to spend on things like a better GPU or more RAM or SSD capacity (depending on your intended use).

Wouldn't that be the exact same problem that the Skylake-X cpus would have, for anything under 10 cores.

 

[scannall]

The 1900X has fundamentally the same problem as Kaby Lake-X - that is to say, if you're already buying in to a high-end platform like X399 or X299, your CPU budget is probably higher. And if your CPU budget isn't higher, you should probably save money by going for the mainstream motherboard and then have more money to spend on things like a better GPU or more RAM or SSD capacity (depending on your intended use).

Kinda. They both have high platform costs. Though the AMD solution doesn't artifically gimp and segment CPU's down the stack.

 

[coercitiv]

The 1900X has fundamentally the same problem as Kaby Lake-X

The 1900X might have been an intriguing product if it came with all it's L3 active, however that is not the case. Nevertheless, it's not the same product as Ryzen, in the sense that it comes with more memory bandwidth and more PCIe lanes. We'll have to see if that makes sense in the end.

 

[wildhorse2k]

gcc segmentation faults on Ryzen / Linux7 https://community.amd.com/thread/215773?start=555&tstart=0
New Ryzen FMA bug https://community.amd.com/thread/218643

That is on top of what AMD already fixed on Ryzen (FMA3 bug, VME bug, multiple AGESA releases until memory finally works at high speed).

many issues = beta product released too early

If AMD fully fixes their product I may consider their CPUs.

 

[Christopher Bohling]

Kinda. They both have high platform costs. Though the AMD solution doesn't artifically gimp and segment CPU's down the stack.

Yeah, it is nice that the 1900X won't be articifically restricted to dual-channel memory and limited features like Kaby Lake-X, but honestly, if I'm trying to build a budget workstation rig, I'm not going to pay hundreds extra just for quad channel memory and a few bonus features and then limit myself to only 8 cores. If I'm already paying hundreds extra for features, I'm going to pay a few hundred extra more and buy at least the 12-core CPU.

 

[scannall]

gcc segmentation faults on Ryzen / Linux7 https://community.amd.com/thread/215773?start=555&tstart=0
New Ryzen FMA bug https://community.amd.com/thread/218643

That is on top of what AMD already fixed on Ryzen (FMA3 bug, VME bug, multiple AGESA releases until memory finally works at high speed).

many issues = beta product released too early

If AMD fully fixes their product I may consider their CPUs.

All CPU's have errata. Whether Intel, AMD, Qualcomm, IBM or whoever. Here's Intel's errata sheet on Skylake-X. Skylake-X Errata