Hardware MPEG4 encoding from MPEG2 file?

[Numpty0306]

I'm putting together a new system to be used exclusively for encoding existing MPEG2 files into MPEG4 (probably WMV9). Is there any hardware out there that I can use to do then encoding for me, instead of hammering the processor?

I see there are capture cards that do hardware-based MPEG4 encoding, but they (appear to) only do hardware encoding of the video that is being captured - not video from an existing file.

Since I'd prefer to use WMV9, I guess I'm really looking for a hardware-based Windows Media Encoder Accelerator... do these things exist, or do I just need to get the biggest CPU I can find?

Thanks...

 

[imported_humey]

No u do get them cards and some mobos are meant to have them build in, but N40 from nvidia was meant to do this at pre and launch but its broke so far, but a 6600 and 6200 range of cards will work, its very grey area as no real proof yet as even if you got the working cards and drivers with purevideo, to decode you need use nvidias dvd decoder/codec and its not free then they now say you need wait on new build of WMP10 with added dll files, to encode i not sure what app is supported or if it just uses gpu in any app you would normally use.

 

[gsellis]

Not that I am aware of. The most likely source would be Canopus, Matrox, or Pinnacle. And just to clarify a point of confusion in your post, you meant MPEG-4 or WMV9 (VC1), right? WMV9 is not a subset of MPEG-4 (DIVX).

Oh, and do not expect to pay less than $1000 for it.

 

[imported_humey]

They are all avis and divx was originally a hacked version of wmv long ago (google if u dont believe me), obv they changed it a fair bit now

divx/xvid/apple mpeg4/nero mpeg4/wma/wmv are all avis

Go read the purevideo threads and links and youi wills ee what new nvidia gpus were meant to do, but you can use what the user above said.

 

[gsellis]

Originally posted by: humey
They are all avis and divx was originally a hacked version of wmv long ago (google if u dont believe me), obv they changed it a fair bit now

divx/xvid/apple mpeg4/nero mpeg4/wma/wmv are all avis

Go read the purevideo threads and links and youi wills ee what new nvidia gpus were meant to do, but you can use what the user above said.

Humey, that does not make them equal. DV-AVI is not DivX, and WMV is definitely not DV-AVI. DV-AVI is considered lossless compression - I think its roots are in DIF, but do not quote me (which predates WMV). WMV and DivX along with MPEG-2 lose information as they compress. The file type of AVI is just that and has nothing to do with the codec. That codec information is in the header. As an experiment, you can rename an MPG file to AVI and it will still play in WMP if you have the MPEG-2 codec loaded. The player reads the header and plays it with the correct codec. The only thing that will not work is MOV in WMP as I do not believe there is a QT codec advertised for WMP (as Apple want you to buy their Pro player - which is not unreasonable.)

Reading the OPs post, I believe he is asking for HW encoder. Even the 6800, which advertised WMV acceleration, only 'supports' decode, not encode. Some video cards do support MPEG-2 encode. I do believe the AIWs do, but I am not the expert on that (RBV5 would know detail on it - I bought my 7500 originally for DX support and AV In.) I have yet to see any of the video houses talking about WMV encoder hardware. I can see a need as it took about 25 minutes for me to create an experimentally 1080i WMV file at 5k. The video was only about 2 minutes long.

 

[imported_humey]

And ?, where did i say there the same, there all AVI, 2 diff statements, i made movies for 3 years solid, now i have no need to so i know ins/outs of en/decoding.

N40 stated de/encode at launch, go google it, only recently nvidia have edited it as its broke, and yes i own a 6800 U (broke).

Infact its in here somewhere in the threads or reviews.

 

[imported_humey]

Here found my old post in purevideo thread.

Quote

"This is about best info on web ive seen about what a 6800 range card was meant to do, must be b4 rest were edited"

Inverse telecine (3:2 pulldown)
Motion adaptive deinterlacing (SPAD)
Color space conversion
Gamma correction
Processor amplifier
WMV9/H.264 motion compensation
WMV9/H.264 in-loop deblocking
Noise reduction
Frame rate conversion
MPEG 2 Decode / Encode (SD and HD resolutions)
MPEG 4 Decode / Encode
DiVX Decode / Encode
High Quality scaling

 

[gsellis]

Yep, the 6800 was supposed to Decode WMV and does not. It never did advertise Encode for WMV. It does theoretically support DivX encode, but I do not remember if it was H.264.

 

[imported_humey]

MPEG 2 Decode / Encode (SD and HD resolutions)
MPEG 4 Decode / Encode <<<<< COVERS wmv, as its mp4 avi's, you can see DIVX is seperate in the specs, this is only 1 list of specs around web for N40, but Nvidia would love them all removed.

 

[Numpty0306]

Thanks for the speedy responses!

Originally posted by: gsellis
Reading the OPs post, I believe he is asking for HW encoder.

Indeed, I was. Looks like I was dreaming (not unusual for me)!

I didn't realise that WMV9 wasn't MPEG4 - I'm sure I read it somewhere in some M$ article - that'll teach me to beleive the M$ hype

So, given that my "hardware accelerator" will take the form of a high-spec CPU, what do you guys favour: Intel or overclocked Athlon 64?

 

[imported_humey]

No probs, wmv is mpeg4 avi, you were correct to assume this.

Hmm CPUS well intel use amd's patented hyperthreading but its not any good IMO so amd didnt take it up after 2002 patent, if you are building a rig today, id go amd64, as o/s is final last week.

 

[gsellis]

Originally posted by: Numpty0306
Thanks for the speedy responses!

Originally posted by: gsellis
Reading the OPs post, I believe he is asking for HW encoder.

Indeed, I was. Looks like I was dreaming (not unusual for me)!

I didn't realise that WMV9 wasn't MPEG4 - I'm sure I read it somewhere in some M$ article - that'll teach me to beleive the M$ hype

So, given that my "hardware accelerator" will take the form of a high-spec CPU, what do you guys favour: Intel or overclocked Athlon 64?

You would not have found that in a MS doc. They get 25 cents for every chip that ships with VC1 support, which competes with MPEG4 H.264.

Toss-up on acceleration. AMD is starting to add SSE3 into their line (it is not all about SSE3). The Opeteron 242 ships with it. Given that, encoding should start being a closer field. Intel, in general, is currently faster when comparing like to like. But, getting to encoding is the rest of the picture.

If you are looking for a particular solution, choose a non-linear editor first, then find the hardware suited to it. Each NLE will have a listed of preferred or certified hardware. Same is true with video cards. Audio cards are coming into that spec too with ASIO support being added.

Not sure what you are doing as you just asked about WMV encoding. "The" hardware currently is the Canopus Edius NX system, which does HD. But even then, it does not appear to have either MPEG-4 or WMV (VC1) encoding solutions. It does appear to do MPEG2 high def though (but may not do Transport Stream natively - it was dicussed in a thread I saw as doing an intermediary format.)

 

[gsellis]

Humey, MPEG-4 is not WMV. They are two different codecs. One is controlled by the Moving Picture Expert Group and the other by Microsoft.

 

[imported_humey]

WMV is a form of mpeg4, go google it, your confusing him more than he needs to be.

http://www.animemusicvideos.org/guides/avtechold/video4_2.htm

Quote

"How it Works: Essentially, ASF is Microsoft's own partial implementation of the MPEG4 standard. I say partial because if you read the MPEG4 standard, you will notice that there's a hell of a lot more to the standard than what Microsoft provides. Basically they just took the video encoding portion, stripped out things like B-frames which weren't compatible with the AVI format, and wrote an encoder/decoder for it and called it Windows Media."

Divx and Xvid are also mpeg4 and also avi's.

 

[gsellis]

Go here instead and get it from the horse's mouth. MS makes there own MPEG-4, but it is not WMV.

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/WM7/mpeg4.aspx

Here is the most telling note in the linked doc.

How does MPEG-4 video compare to Windows Media Video 8 codec or other state-of-the-art codecs?
It is difficult to measure the compression performance of a standard, as the quality experienced by a user depends on the quality of each encoder and decoder implementation and what parts of the standard they use. Current consensus indicates that although MPEG-4 has the capability of providing a savings in bit rate relative to older standards such as MPEG-2, other design efforts such as Windows Media Video 8 codec and the ITU-T H.26L project have demonstrated significantly better solutions given advances in codec engineering and associated efficiency. As a result, MPEG is working with the ITU-T to develop a new codec for use in MPEG-4. This new codec will be incompatible with that currently defined in MPEG-4.

 

[gsellis]

Oh, and the decoder chip is 10 cents, not 25.

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/window...a/licensing/licensing.aspx#royalties_3

 

[Numpty0306]

Originally posted by: humey
... if you are building a rig today, id go amd64, as o/s is final last week.

I hadn't realised that 64-bit XP had been released... I'm downloading it from MSDN as we speak :thumbsup:

Originally posted by: gsellis
You would not have found that in a MS doc.

I've just trawled through the MS site again, and it looks like I must have been mistaken: probably got the (mis)understanding from somebody who is as confused as I used to be

Thanks to you both for the wealth of information... it'll keep me busy for a while!

 

[imported_humey]

Who believes MS about their wmv anyhow, if they stole and raped some mpeg4 codec they not gonna admit.

I got my views and beliefs so i stick to them not some pro MS write up.

 

[gsellis]

Originally posted by: Numpty0306

Originally posted by: humey
... if you are building a rig today, id go amd64, as o/s is final last week.

I hadn't realised that 64-bit XP had been released... I'm downloading it from MSDN as we speak :thumbsup:

[

If you are planning on using 64-bit XP, definitely check first on support for any editing tools. Some input devices may not have device drivers and some NLE's may not perform that well. One of the regulars here has been using unreleased software from a major NLE vendor that is 64-bit. He says it is extremely fast and that was almost a year ago.

 

[imported_humey]

He can run the amd64 rig on windows 32bit xpsp2 and still beat any amd32bit or intel rig or use the new 54bit xpsp2 and run any apps that not work in wow64 mose (32bit emulation) although its tad bit slower than real 32bit.

Anyhow now the o/s is final, the software will follow, nero/nvidia and creative all have ahd for long time 64bit drivers/support.

You could dl nero 6.6.X.X and also pack 2 vision express and make any type of movies you want aslong as you have the codecs installed.

 

[Numpty0306]

Originally posted by: gsellis
If you are planning on using 64-bit XP, definitely check first on support for any editing tools. Some input devices may not have device drivers and some NLE's may not perform that well.

Thanks for the warning (I learned that lesson when installed Windows Server 2003). I will almost exclusively be using this rigs to extract content from my Tivo (MPEG2-ish), transcoding to something which compresses a bit better, and then sending over the internet (slow upload speed at the sending end) to my other machine, ready for watching. This shouldn't require too much in the way of extra hardware and drivers, but I will bare it in mind when I select the video card to go in it.