[Hardware.info] Intel confirms Haswell USB 3 issue

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Homeles

Platinum Member
Dec 9, 2011
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This issue has only been observed with a small subset of USB SuperSpeed thumb drives and does not affect other USB peripherals.
Click to expand...
Well that's good to know. Hopefully that is the true extent of the bug.
 
code65536

code65536

Golden Member
Mar 7, 2006
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The real question is whether this is going to result in a launch snag like the Sandy Bridge SATA... if they do launch "on track" as promised, is the supply going to be there?
 
Soccerman06

Soccerman06

Diamond Member
Jul 29, 2004
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Well personally I dont even own a usb3 device so it doesnt effect me, maybe they C1 will be cheaper because of it? Then again, how soon would the revision come out?
 
moonbogg

moonbogg

Lifer
Jan 8, 2011
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I wonder how many chips are already out that can't be fully used. They might get stuck in mobile devices with no USB 3.0 port. Either way, this is why I won't buy one for a couple months after people start hitting the forums with their new rigs.

Just read that the fixed chips won't hit market until late July...LOL. So, add another month or two for a safety buffer and we got another half year to go. Wow. This sucks.
 
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Fjodor2001

Diamond Member
Feb 6, 2010
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Also see this regarding the new C2 stepping of the affected chipsets:

http://www.legitreviews.com/news/15374/

And this related Product Change Notification document from Intel:

http://qdms.intel.com/dm/d.aspx/C79FC2E6-6B75-4063-8687-660F4668FFC8/PCN112101-00.pdf

Which says for example:

"Description of Change to the Customer:

Intel is initiating a C1 to C2 stepping conversion for the Intel® 8 Series/C220 Series
where products will undergo the following changes:

* Metal layers change from C1 to C2 to fix USB SuperSpeed device remuneration erratum.
* C1 stepping package is pin compatible with C2 stepping package.
* Revision ID will change from 04h to 05h.
* Compatibility revision ID will remain at 04h for Intel® Stable Image Platform Program
(Intel® SIPP).
* New S-specs and MM numbers for the converting products.

Customer Impact of Change and Recommended Action:

C2 stepping has a metal layers change to fix the USB SuperSpeed device remuneration
erratum. Based on USB SuperSpeed design fix implementation there is no need for full
electrical regression testing. Customers may perform a limited USB SuperSpeed
regression by checking a small subset of bulk, periodic and isochronous device types
against customer’s existing USB3 validation tests focusing on S3/U3 cycles."
 
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Fjodor2001

Diamond Member
Feb 6, 2010
4,224
589
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Homeles said:
This issue has only been observed with a small subset of USB SuperSpeed thumb drives and does not affect other USB peripherals.
Click to expand...
Well that's good to know. Hopefully that is the true extent of the bug.
Click to expand...

If that is the case, I wonder what is the technical reason only those devices are affected? Reading about this it seems likely to be a more general problem that could affect other USB devices as well. So if that is not the case, it would be interesting to know why.

Also see:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-57578223-92/intel-confirms-usb-bug-in-haswell-chipset/

Which says:

"The bug can cause USB (Universal Serial Bus) 3.0 devices, like thumb drives, to disappear after entering standby. In some cases, removable devices have to be reconnected again, according to a report at BSN.
[...]
4th gen Core is on track for a midyear launch. Intel issued a PCN (Product Change Notification) documenting a chipset USB errata and stating that chipsets with the errata will be in production during the initial ramp. But Intel has confirmed that there is no chance of data loss or corruption. This issue has only been observed with a small subset of USB SuperSpeed thumb drives and does not affect other USB peripherals."

It's a little bit unclear how to interpret that. It could mean that data loss or corruption does not happen, except for on a small subset of USB SuperSpeed thumb drives. But other USB issues (e.g. not resuming from sleep) could affect other USB devices. I wish the article would have been more clear on that.
 
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WhoBeDaPlaya

WhoBeDaPlaya

Diamond Member
Sep 15, 2000
7,415
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Fjodor2001 said:
* Metal layers change from C1 to C2 to fix USB SuperSpeed device remuneration erratum.
Click to expand...
Ugh, sounds like a day at work

"Part's taping out this week. Thanks for your work!"
*booyah!*
...
"Errr... something is t3h brokeded. We can haz ECO?"
*looks at ECO netlist - spare cell situation from hell*
@*$&*@&*&$*&@
 
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Idontcare

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
21,110
64
91
WhoBeDaPlaya said:
Ugh, sounds like a day at work

"Part's taping out this week. Thanks for your work!"
*booyah!*
...
"Errr... something is t3h brokeded. We can haz ECO?"
*looks at ECO netlist - spare cell situation from hell*
@*$&*@&*&$*&@
Click to expand...

LOL :D a
 
Phynaz

Phynaz

Lifer
Mar 13, 2006
10,140
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Fjodor2001 said:
4th gen Core is on track for a midyear launch. Intel issued a PCN (Product Change Notification) documenting a chipset USB errata and stating that chipsets with the errata will be in production during the initial ramp. But Intel has confirmed that there is no chance of data loss or corruption. This issue has only been observed with a small subset of USB SuperSpeed thumb drives and does not affect other USB peripherals."

It's a little bit unclear how to interpret that. It could mean that data loss or corruption does not happen, except for on a small subset of USB SuperSpeed thumb drives. But other USB issues (e.g. not resuming from sleep) could affect other USB devices. I wish the article would have been more clear on that.
Click to expand...

there is no chance of data loss or corruption.

What's unclear about that?
 
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Fjodor2001

Diamond Member
Feb 6, 2010
4,224
589
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Phynaz said:
there is no chance of data loss or corruption.

What's unclear about that?
Click to expand...

You did not quote the complete text. It said:

"The bug can cause USB (Universal Serial Bus) 3.0 devices, like thumb drives, to disappear after entering standby. In some cases, removable devices have to be reconnected again, according to a report at BSN.
[...]
4th gen Core is on track for a midyear launch. Intel issued a PCN (Product Change Notification) documenting a chipset USB errata and stating that chipsets with the errata will be in production during the initial ramp. But Intel has confirmed that there is no chance of data loss or corruption. This issue has only been observed with a small subset of USB SuperSpeed thumb drives and does not affect other USB peripherals."

-The first section says the problems can occur on USB devices like thumb drives. I.e. other USB devices can be affected too.

-The second section "there is no chance of data loss or corruption. This issue has only been observed with a small subset of USB SuperSpeed thumb drives and does not affect other USB peripherals.". Now if the USB problem only affects USB thumb drives, then what USB problem is left for the other USB devices mentioned in section 1?

So what I wonder is if they mean that the main problem is that USB devices can fail to resume from sleep, and that it affects various types of USB devices. But data loss or corruption only affects some very limited set of USB thumb drives, so that problem could more or less be ignored. I.e. that the last sentence should be read like this:

But Intel has confirmed that there is no chance of data loss or corruption. This issue [i.e. data loss or corruption] has only been observed with a small subset of USB SuperSpeed thumb drives and does not affect other USB peripherals.

But reading it again I don't think it's likely. It's just that the first section does not make sense when reading the second. So I think the article should have been written in another way to avoid such confusion.
 
frozentundra123456

frozentundra123456

Lifer
Aug 11, 2008
10,451
642
126
Phynaz said:
there is no chance of data loss or corruption.

What's unclear about that?
Click to expand...

This makes no sense though. If you go into sleep mode without saving your changes, and have to re-open the document, would you not lose any changes?

Personally though, I use sleep mode rarely and always save just before entering it. So to me this is not a big deal, but it does look bad, since haswell was already delayed and this will either force further delays or result in a "defective" chip being released. I am actually more disappointed in the lack of performance increase than this problem.
 
H

Homeles

Platinum Member
Dec 9, 2011
2,580
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I dunno. Backwards compatibility is pretty important to me. I don't want to have to use an adapter on everything.
 
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BallaTheFeared

Diamond Member
Nov 15, 2010
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All I want to know is which stepping clocks better?

If I remember correctly the reviewed stepping for SB was actually better for clocks on avg, and the revision required internal ppl overvoltage whereas the reviewed samples "5GHz on air" did not.
 
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Idontcare

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
21,110
64
91
frozentundra123456 said:
This makes no sense though. If you go into sleep mode without saving your changes, and have to re-open the document, would you not lose any changes?
Click to expand...

I imagine the way it would work out is no different than how it works now - if you open a file from a USB thumbdrive, edit the file but do not save the changes, remove the thumbdrive without safe-remove, your program will prompt you that it still needs to save the changes to the document and ask you to save the file to a new location on a drive that is recognized at the time.

Data isn't lost unless you refuse to save the document. It might not end up on the thumbdrive (unless you plug it back in, then it can), but the file on the drive won't be corrupted, nor will you lose your unsaved work.

(I only happen to know of this because I once had a USB drive get removed mid-use thanks to my over-active son at the time :p)
 
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