Hardware for a 50 user DSL sharing network

[DiamondFire13]

Hey, I was the one who started the previous thread on how to set up a 50 user DSL network.

I was wondering what the apropriate hardware would be to acomplish the goals that we discussed earlier. I think the plan is to go with 3 routers into the 8 port switch on the first floor, which would also go out to the 24 port switches on the 2nd and 3rd floor (this would keep wires running between floors to a minimum). What would be good routers/switches to purchase, which work well together and would be easy to set up.

From what I gathered from the previous discussion, load balancing is pretty much out of the question if we arent going to get a pretty advanced server and dont want to spend over 3 grand.

Thanks for all of the help last time, lets see if we can finally nail the situation down.

Sincerely,
Paul Hilgeman

 

[Captain_Rob]

Here's DiamondFire13's previous thread he was referring to

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.cfm?catid=36&threadid=298215

The only low-end router I've messed with is the Linksys BEFSR41. It's very user friendly and works great for a small home LAN. However, I think it would not be flexible enough for your setup. The Linksys limits the number of customization you can do to it. I like the ease of the HTML setups, but I wish it had a CLI so I could add more customizations than the HTML code allows.

Maybe someone else can recommend a good $100-$200 firewall/router that not quite as limiting.

 

[superhero]

Here is what we do at work, I set it up myself and it is more than sufficient for our 40 users.
1 DSL line @ 512K up/down
1 netopia router ($600) for connecting to the DSL modem and doing NAT for all connected users.
1 16 port switch with uplink to the router. ($500)
Enough hubs to connect all users.
Give all users a static IP Address 192.168.100.1 through 192.168.100.50
Set the users gateway to the routers internal address 192.168.100.100.
Set the users DNS to the ISP's DNS servers (for internet access)
If using "Client for MS Networks" make sure the workgroup is same on all PCs.
Set the router external address to the address given by your ISP and configure for NAT and any other settings necesaary.
Enjoy.

 

[b0red]

but these are 50 college dudes. Think they need more than 1 dsl lines.

ftp/surfing/gaming/ircing/napstering/etc.

 

[WoundedWallet]

He said he was planning on three DSL lines.

Hubs, even though they're cheaper, will end up just making people mad at each other and at him.

The layout will be the tricky part. If he wants to give the same throughput to everyone he will have to split the floors and add to the wire mess. I wonder if there is a wireless solution for him....

If there isn't, I think that having 3 X 24 ports switches will be a good solution for two reasons. One because he can split the three routers for 16, 17, and 17 users. The other is that if he has any problem with one of the routers or switches the left over ports will be able to accomodate most of the users.

If the routers have more than one port, then he could survive with 3 X 16 ports switches, having two users connected to the routers directly. In this case, it would be advisable to shop for a backup switch when a hot deal comes around.

About brands, I think there is a consensus here tha Netgear offer the most for your buck. Sob I would look their way.

Sorry I'm talking about you in the third person Paul. Ijust started that way and it was hard to change.

WW

 

[DiamondFire13]

Thats fine, Thanks alot to all of you, you guys rock.

That is correct, we will have 2 DSL lines this year and will add another one next year. I think we have the whole network planned out properly, it will be entrely switched, except for 2 4-port hubs, which we will put the low-bandwidth people on. The problem now is how to properly connect the DSL lines to the network. I am pretty sure that we have decided to use 3 seperate routers, one for each of the DSL lines. This will allow us to set up gateways for each user so we can distribute the users across the DSL lines and slightly balance the load. True load balancing would be way to difficult and expensive.

Keep the ideas and advice coming.

One question that I have is if there is a router out there that will accept all 3 DSL lines and just establish the 3 separate gateways and not do any load balancing. I know that it is possible to get one that will create a single gateway and do the load balacing but it is over 4,000 bucks and that is too much.

Ideas, comments and suggestions are appreciated,
Paul Hilgeman

 

[Captain_Rob]

DiamondFire13,

I would start off slow with only 1 DSL line and 1 router to first see how your performance is. You can always add more DSL's and Router's later and then split the users up between the gateways as we have layed out for you. This will also help you adjust to the learning curve of installing and maintaining this setup.

You said in the previous thread 1x) 8-port switch and 2x) 24-port switch's. That combo would only leave you with 49 connections available to actually connect users. You need to account for the interconnections that will be used:

(1st floor switch)
3x) router connections
1x) link to 2nd floor
1x) link to 3rd floor

(2nd floor switch)
1x) link from 1st floor

(3rd floor switch)
1x) link from 1st floor
---
7 Interconnections total

8+24+24= 56 available connections
minus 7 Interconnections
= 49 connections available for users

You mentioned you already had 2 100mb hubs. The hubs could be connected to a switch to provide more connections for users as needed. Just put as many users as possible directly into the switches and only put your lowest usage users on the hubs. Remember a normal cable is used for the interconnects only if you are using an uplink port on one side or the other. You will need crossover cables between devices that don't have uplink ports on them (sometimes there is a switch labled MDI/MDIX that selects normal or crossover mode)

One more question. We've all been assuming the existing network just sitting idle now. It's not part of a larger campus network is it? That would change everything if it is currently tied into a campus WAN.

 

[PandaBear]

DiamondFire,

If I remember right Linux can do load balancing if you have the correct hardware. You might want to take a look at it too.

The kind of load balancing will accept all connection from internal users and round robin their connection to the outside world. It is not the real load balancer, but it provide a more even load for the entire building.

Your idea of having each floor has its own dsl sounds find except for a couple reasons: If one line is down then all of the people on one floor will be dead, instead of the overall slowdown you will encounter. If one guy on a floor need to transfer stuff to another floor you will need to go out to the dsl and come back in, which is way way slower than using switches to interconnect them. The most disasterous problem: If all the napster freaks are on one floor, then it will be way too unbalanced for the load.

I recommend you get a powerful connection than 3 mini connection to have an more even load. A T1 might sounds fine if you guys can afford it, or get 1 highest speed DSL option than 3 slower speed one if you can.

If that is not the option for you (like if you need 3 highest speed DSL), then it might be good to setup all 3 of your router in such a way:

router 1 internal: 192.168.0.10
router 2 internal: 192.168.0.30
router 3 internal: 192.168.0.50

user floor 1: 192.168.0.11 to 192.168.0.20
user floor 2: 192.168.0.31 to 192.168.0.40
user floor 3: 192.168.0.51 to 192.168.0.60

now the tricky part is to have each of the user have all 3 gateway installed, each pick one as default, and 2 other as secondary or backup.

So if one is down, they will flock to the other 2.

 

[DiamondFire13]

Hey, thanks everyone,

First of all, we will have all of the gateway stuff figured out so that if one goes down, half go to the other line, and half go to the 3rd line.

We already have 2 lines coming in, and a goal was set to have 3

The max speed of DSL around here is 768 down and 768 up. I have looked to see if there is more, but it wont be available untill mid next year. THat will be an upgrade option.

A T1 is WAY to expensive.

I misspoke when I said we already had 2 100 port hubs, we are actually getting switches. We did a re-count last night, and there will be 28 users per floor, we are going to rig up an extra 8 port switch for 2 rooms above eachother and deal with it taht way. I can handle all of that stuff, it is the routers that I am unsure of. See my previous post on that one.

Thank you all very much again,

Paul Hilgeman