[Hardware 360] DirectX 12 Requires New Graphics Cards to Utilize All Features

[Stuka87]

Any DX11.0 card can get the API reduction part (speedup) from DX12. Maxwell however is the only true DX12 GPU there is.

No AMD VLIW4/5 will support DX12 in any form, period. This is due to their inflexible scheduling. So for AMD, it is GCN or newer.

 

[Stuka87]

Thats still false. And the Vista with DX10 is even more false.

To give XP DX10, it would have to be transformed into Vista. The entire driver structure got changed with Vista for the GPU.

I agree with XP and DX10. XP's driver model would not facilitate it.

DX11.2 however was artificially limited. There is no technical reason it would not work on Windows 7 as it is not a complete overhaul of DX. Its is just a small extension of existing functionality.

 

[mindbomb]

No AMD VLIW4/5 will support DX12 in any form, period. This is due to their inflexible scheduling. So for AMD, it is GCN or newer.

idk if it is for hardware reasons. I have a feeling they are gonna retire the 5000/6000 series to the legacy drivers by the time dx12 comes out.

 

[el etro]

By the time DX12 will be here, DX11 will be six years old. There's no problem in introduce newer functions in order to push PC gaming forward, no matter it will alienates some PC gamers.

I personally prefer DX12 to focus more on performance and GPGPU aspects(Sea Islands and Maxwell are both good on GPGPU front) than in effects to improve game visuals.

 

[Arkaign]

I agree with XP and DX10. XP's driver model would not facilitate it.

DX11.2 however was artificially limited. There is no technical reason it would not work on Windows 7 as it is not a complete overhaul of DX. Its is just a small extension of existing functionality.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. Besides, DX12 is coming way after Win8 release. If they fit it into Win8 but not Win7, that will be pretty ridiculous.

 

[Carfax83]

I agree with XP and DX10. XP's driver model would not facilitate it.

DX11.2 however was artificially limited. There is no technical reason it would not work on Windows 7 as it is not a complete overhaul of DX. Its is just a small extension of existing functionality.

I think many of the improvements in DX11.1 and DX11.2 centered around Windows 8/8.1's graphic interface and mobile performance as far as driver model is concerned.

Daily Tech had an article about it:

Windows 8 pumps up Metro UI with DirectX 11.1 graphics.

So with Windows 7 using the Aero interface, I'm not sure how DX11.1 would have fit in.. Not saying it can't be done, just that it may not have been worth the effort considering the level of overhaul that would have been necessary..

 

[3DVagabond]

Good news. A bit old but still. I hoped it needs new hardware. Otherwise it wouldnt really be a great upgrade from 11 to 12 imho.

Agreed. I want new features that today's cards don't do yet.

 

[Arkaign]

I think many of the improvements in DX11.1 and DX11.2 centered around Windows 8/8.1's graphic interface and mobile performance as far as driver model is concerned.

Daily Tech had an article about it:

Windows 8 pumps up Metro UI with DirectX 11.1 graphics.

So with Windows 7 using the Aero interface, I'm not sure how DX11.1 would have fit in.. Not saying it can't be done, just that it may not have been worth the effort considering the level of overhaul that would have been necessary..

I don't think it would be any overall actually. The reason I say that is that Windows 8.1 runs just fine on pre-DX11 cards. In fact, the laptop I'm writing this on has Windows 8.1, latest DX patches, and does all the metro garbage .. on a Pentium Dual Core with Mobile Express 4 graphics (GMA 4500, which is DX10).

The whole point of Microsoft pulling Aero from 8/8.1 was for targeting lower-spec systems and tablets/convertibles, along with lower power usage so they compared better with Macbooks. Given that 8/8.1 still supports all the GPU candy in actual gaming, it appears that it was an arbitrary decision from a technical standpoint, and not a fundamental leap forward that would lock out old hardware due to obsolescence (otherwise why would my GMA 4500 be just as functional in windows environment as my 770 SLI desktop?).

Basically, take Windows 7, add metro, disable aero, and that's Windows 8 from a GUI standpoint.

 

[TheRyuu]

Basically, take Windows 7, add metro, disable aero, and that's Windows 8 from a GUI standpoint.

Technically desktop compositing in Windows 8 is in an "always on" position now and has proper software fallback when needed so "disable aero" seems a bit incorrect.

 

[Carfax83]

I don't think it would be any overall actually. The reason I say that is that Windows 8.1 runs just fine on pre-DX11 cards. In fact, the laptop I'm writing this on has Windows 8.1, latest DX patches, and does all the metro garbage .. on a Pentium Dual Core with Mobile Express 4 graphics (GMA 4500, which is DX10).

It's running in software mode though I'm sure, which is slower and uses more energy.. Kinda like how you can run IE11 in both software, and hardware accelerated mode. Of course the latter is faster and more fluid..

 

[BFG10K]

As others have stated, this is nothing surprising or new.

I also have doubts that Windows 7 will get it; I expect it to be locked to Windows 9.

 

[B-Riz]

So we get DX 12, new vid cards are available, but when will actual DX 12 games be released?

Vid cards have always been ahead of the game curve...

 

[Attic]

What? Are you serious? It may have been that way when DX11 first came on the scene, but now that we have plenty of native DX11 titles that take advantage of DX11 features, DX9 games are clearly inferior in every possible manner..

Take the best case scenario, like the Witcher 2. An excellent example of the pinnacle of a DX9 game in terms of graphical fidelity. But when you look closer, the Witcher 2 has a very basic lighting and shadowing system compared to what is found in the most advanced DX11 titles like Crysis 3, AC IV etcetera..

Also, the texture and detail pop in are both horrible because DX9 is so inefficient compared to DX11 when it comes to memory management and uploading resources..

By moving to DX11 and 64 bit, the Witcher 3 is miles above the Witcher 2 in terms of graphical fidelity and scale with no loading zones or even chapters to break the feeling of immersion. Looks like the texture and detail pop in issue in the Witcher 2 was solved as well with DX11's superior resource management.

Yea, i'm serious. Witcher 2 fully pumped is a good example. I never noticed pop, calling that horrible I think is a stretch. Obviously stuff like Crysis 3, ACIV, and Tomb Raider fully pumped are better, but I don't view the difference as big as anything like hardware T&L or DX 8 to DX9 shifts.

We are also talking about a jump from DX9 not to DX10, but to DX11. So from my perspective DX11 has a lot of oomph left to it, just as DX9 did when DX10 hit, so i'm not expecting DX12 to delivery a paradigm shift of graphics fidelity from where we are at today until sometime late 2016.

Basically a long ways off till we are better off in garphics fidelity due to DX12 from where we are today due to a general slowing of graphics fidelity improvements from DX version to DX Version since DX 7,8,9 days.

Main point being that a DX9 title like witcher 2 can and does look better than some DX11 titles, we know it takes a while to deliver on DX capabilities and that we haven't seen all DX11 fully bored yet IMO. So DX12, good naturally, but a seriously long ways off from delivering improved graphics. We've also seen that first gen DX cards are for the most part useless for anything but delivering better performance on previous DX versions rather than realizing any real graphics improvements in their new DX compatability. Look back at the first run DX11 cards and ask if those could play any current DX11 title in suitable manner. The HD5870/GTX480 just isn't going to cut it with running the advanced lighting and tess and other DX11 features in current games excelling with the use of DX that surprass Witcher 2's graphics fidelity.

http://www.techspot.com/review/645-tomb-raider-performance/page3.html

We are how many generations of DX11 cards in where we can safely fully crank Tess and other DX11 worthwhile features and get respectable frames at 1080P? The first gen DX12 titles and games will have to upset history to be worthwhile IMO.

 

[loccothan]

Hmm AMD stated that All GCN Cards 7xxx & R2xx have full Hardware support of DX12 features. o_0 So we are ready
All u need is GCN card

 

[ShintaiDK]

Hmm AMD stated that All GCN Cards 7xxx & R2xx have full Hardware support of DX12 features. o_0 So we are ready
All u need is GCN card

AMD only stated support for the API reduction overhead. And that simply requires DX11.0 GPUs.

Haswell, Fermi, Kepler, Maxwell and GCN supports DX12 API. But only Maxwell is full DX12.

 

[RampantAndroid]

And why was the driver model changed?

Maybe you could try reading instead of posting more crap?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Display_Driver_Model

I agree with XP and DX10. XP's driver model would not facilitate it.

DX11.2 however was artificially limited. There is no technical reason it would not work on Windows 7 as it is not a complete overhaul of DX. Its is just a small extension of existing functionality.

You should also try reading. Win 8 and 8.1 both brought new WDDM versions, which DX relies on.

You have Win7. It came with ___ features. Given that porting back DX 11 to Win7 isn't a simple copy of DLLs and needs a new WDDM (something also integral to the OS) you're saying Microsoft should basically give you new features at no cost.

Go buy Win8 and get a free 8.1 license, or buy 8.1.

 

[Carfax83]

Main point being that a DX9 title like witcher 2 can and does look better than some DX11 titles, we know it takes a while to deliver on DX capabilities and that we haven't seen all DX11 fully bored yet IMO.

Yes, Witcher 2 does look better than a lot of DX11 titles, but DX11 was a steep learning curve for developers. The first crop of DX11 titles weren't very impressive, but now that we're in the last stages of DX11's product cycle, the games are both looking and performing amazing..

Massively detailed open world games like Witcher 3, Watch Dogs etcetera simply would not be possible in DX9 without some serious compromises.

The prevalent use of 64 bit also has a lot to do with how superior these latest crop of titles are compared to the old DX9 32 bit titles, by allowing games to take on a greater scale and level of seamlessness than ever before.

 

[blake0812]

I just got a GTX 760 too. Welp, time to hit Ebay!

 

[KaRLiToS]

I just got a GTX 760 too. Welp, time to hit Ebay!

You are the perfect example that their marketing tactics work on you.

 

[blake0812]

You are the perfect example that their marketing tactics work on you.

Well how was I supposed to know that it would require brand new hardware? I just hope they make it work for it.

And besides, it's gonna be awhile until DX12 comes out.

 

[R0H1T]

Well how was I supposed to know that it would require brand new hardware?

I think it's a given since the 760 is nearly 2yrs old (since it's based on Kepler) while DX12 was probably out from the drawing board only last year.

I just hope they make it work for it.

That isn't going to happen & you know that besides this is Nvidia we're talking about !

And besides, it's gonna be awhile until DX12 comes out.

So why not wait until win9 & DX12 come out, it's not like you're going to play with 750Ti in a SLI config right ?

 

[blake0812]

I think it's a given since the 760 is nearly 2yrs old (since it's based on Kepler) while DX12 was probably out from the drawing board only last year.That isn't going to happen & you know that besides this is Nvidia we're talking about !
So why not wait until win9 & DX12 come out, it's not like you're going to play with 750Ti in a SLI config right ?

I was gaming on a 5570 before, I needed to upgrade. I wasn't aware that it was 2 years old either, I wasn't even sure what Kepler was. I'm not complaining, really. I can run Crysis 2 at Ultra just fine, and that's good enough for me. The only games I play are RPGs and sometimes FPS.


I doubt it'll be as big as an upgrade as DX11. It's probably gonna be another DX10

 

[KaRLiToS]

I was gaming on a 5570 before, I needed to upgrade. I wasn't aware that it was 2 years old either, I wasn't even sure what Kepler was. I'm not complaining, really. I doubt it'll be as big as an upgrade as DX11. It's probably gonna be another DX10

I think your GTX 760 is a pretty good card for your needs. Maybe wait a year before upgrading? ()

 

[blake0812]

I think your GTX 760 is a pretty good card for your needs. Maybe wait a year before upgrading? ()

I think this is gonna last me more than a year :biggrin:

 

[R0H1T]

I think this is gonna last me more than a year :biggrin:

Then, as others have said, wait for a 20nm GPU to be launched first before jumping the ship besides what you're proposing doesn't make any sense, it probably would if we had DX12 & win9 running on systems now but they're ~1.5yrs away & so don't shoot yourself in the foot by selling that GPU !