HardOCP takes the Radeon 9600 Pro to 567/716 core/mem keeps up with 9700 Pro!!

[NFS4]

http://www.hothardware.com/hh_files/S&V/oc_r9600_pro.shtml

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile

Originally posted by: Sudheer Anne
i would wait until this board hits shelves and we get some real user feeback. Review samples are often "golden samples" that are highly overclockable and may not be indicative of real-world performance.

Agreed.

But I have to complain along with many over at Rage3D: ATi is simply too conservative with their stock core/mem frequencies. Both the 9800 and 9600 PRO could have debuted with higher clocks, IMO.

Not like nVidia . . . heard the latest?


Reported in NVNews

FX Flow Problem

As if the FXFlow hasn't receieved enough criticism... PC Ekspert has found a flaw in NVIDIA's adaptive cooling methods. Once a 3D Screensaver starts up, the fan's speeds increases (as usual when a 3D apps is running), however a short while later, it stops, leading to a build up of heat on the GeForce FX. This is an extremely serious problem that could severely damage the card. NVIDIA have been able to reproduce the problem in their labs (somewhat), so hopefully this flaw should be fixed soon.
Set up the screensaver to turn on itself after 1 minute, so you don?t have to wait too long. After the screensaver starts, you?ll hear the fan on the GF FX 5800 Ultra start spinning. Just wait around 5-10 secs and you?ll hear the fan stop! The 3D screensaver will continue playing on the screen, and after some time (depending on the screensaver) you?ll start seeing artifacts, or in the case of DiveVisions, the screen will look like the monitor was having some interference from a strong magnetic source. You can leave the screensaver running as long as you feel its safe, but don?t overdo it. We tried this around 10 times and were cautious enough not to let it run to long, as the temperature on the card, according to the drivers, reached 95-100C.[/quote] :Q

I think ATI is conservative for a reason. 😉

 

[chizow]

Originally posted by: ElFenix
wonder if regular retail ram will be 700MHz rated?

Yes, its the same 2.8ns BGA RAM found on the 9700pro and 9800pro, whose theoretical max are the same at 350MHz/700MHz DDR. The difference for the 9800pro is a 10-layer PCB opposed to the 9700pro's 8-layer PCB. Most 9700pro's are able to hit ~340/350MHz, the 9800pro's in reviews hit ~375MHz. My guess is that the 9600pro's optimized memory controllers are allowing the RAM to scale as well as its overall lower transistor count and heat.

I've got a feeling the 9500pro is the better buy. There's no guarantee the 9600pro will OC as well as review samples, not to mention Catalyst 3.3 is yet unreleased which should benefit the 9500pro, although not as much as the 9700pro. Throw in the results showing the 9600pro OC'd by almost 200MHz barely edges out the 9500pro, and you've got to wonder why they didn't max out the OC of the 9500pro as well. My guess is it would've once again shown the 9600pro trailing. After looking at a few results, it looks like the 9600pro is the Celeron of the ATi line-up. It can run at higher clock frequencies, but its getting less work done per cycle than the 9500pro and 9700pro, which is why it needs to be clocked so high to keep up in fillrate and shader ops.

In any case, as others have mentioned, the 9700 non-pro would be the best bang for your buck. OC the core to 9700pro speeds and you'll have a faster card than either the 9500pro or 9600pro w/out the 128-bit bottleneck.

Chiz

 

[chizow]

Originally posted by: apoppin
I think ATI is conservative for a reason. 😉

Heh I thought the reason was because they don't have the R&D budget to put out a new chip until Q1 2004. 😛

They need to save some headroom for RV375.2 ver. 2.1 aka Radeon 9699.9 Pro 😛

Chiz

 

[zephyrprime]

Hmmm, I hadn't realized the default clock speed for the 9600pro was 400mhz. Pretty impressive.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: chizow

Originally posted by: apoppin
I think ATI is conservative for a reason. 😉

Heh I thought the reason was because they don't have the R&D budget to put out a new chip until Q1 2004. 😛

They need to save some headroom for RV375.2 ver. 2.1 aka Radeon 9699.9 Pro 😛

Chiz

Personally I am looking forward to the beast that will be known as "9900" . . . 256MB DDR (II-?) . . . I bet there will be nothing "conservative" about it as it is put up against NV35 . . . . 😉

(I am betting on NV35) 😉

😀

 

[chizow]

Originally posted by: apoppinPersonally I am looking forward to the beast that will be known as "9900" . . . 256MB DDR (II-?) . . . I bet there will be nothing "conservative" about it as it is put up against NV35 . . . . 😉

(I am betting on NV35) 😉

😀

I'll be impressed if they're able to pair a 256-bit interface with DDR-II; reports have been coming in that the NV35 will NOT be using DDR-II, as it was the main cause of NV30's well-documented heat and power consumption issues along with requiring the expensive 12-layer PCB. Unless they are able to significantly ramp up clockspeeds on the R300 (or R300 ver. 2.0 aka R350) core on the .15 micron process, I'm not sure how much benefit there would be by moving to DDR-II to begin with. Real-world benchmarks have shown that the R300 isn't bandwidth limited even at 350MHz/700MHz and benefits much more from an increase in core clockspeeds.

Chiz

Oh yah, I'm betting on NV35 too. 😀

 

[ivan2]

please forgive me, for asking this stupid question. When will this card out?

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: ivan2
please forgive me, for asking this stupid question. When will this card out?

When it's ready.

😉

Actually, it probably is ready . . . and there is a matter of "need". I imagine when NV35 is announced and specs finalized that the 9900(?) will be "out".

And I am also not "too sure" if ATI or its partners will use DDR-II - I was very careful to add the "?" . . . I'd say it depends on how NV35 "performs" and how desperate ATI is to stay up with it . . . again, I "imagine" we will see some pretty exotic (and expensive) forms of 9900 including DDRII and watercooling . . .

 

[bfonnes]

Don't forget that we are talking about the "home" video card market... Those $10,000 vid cards are out there, but who of us here are going to buy those? I say that you get pretty amazing performance out of any of those cards compared to my GF2 MX200 😛

Bfonnes

 

[chizow]

Actually, mainstream watercooling is closer than you might think. Self-contained and unobtrusive water-cooling kits were featured prominently at CeBit; with both external and 5 1/4'' self-contained units featured by many different IHVs aimed at the mainstream enthusiast market. They were all affordable and component-specific, typically under $100.

There's already an NV30 variant featuring water cooling with a 550MHz core and 1100MHz memory clock; this trend will only continue on the high-end with the possibility of it filtering into the upper-middle market as well ($200). As of now, water cooling solutions are a niche market, but WC vendors see a huge opportunity here for market penetration.

If they can bundle their kits to AIB makers, they may make less per unit than if they direct-marketed the same unit, however, the increase in volume sales and resulting exposure of putting their units on the market would only benefit them in the long run. It shifts the focus of water cooling from an expensive indulgence for achieving marginal performance gains to a necessity for attaining the desired performance of a top of the line video card. Oh, and it sure beats the hell outta having to listen to the FlowFX all day. 😀

Chiz

 

[SexyK]

Originally posted by: PrinceXizor
A few things to keep in mind:

1. Remember the 9600 Pro is STARTING at $199.99 - the 9500 Pro has just recently dropped below $200.

Just for the record, I bought my Built By ATI 9500 Pro for $199.99 back in December 2002.

Kramer